Based on WOC staff comments, interblock design issues (coatls) and ideas posted on other threads I'll venture the following guesses
Flavor- a world loosely inspired by mesoamerican mythology
(reasons: introduction of coatl and flying snakes in Shards, typical images of such mythology, Naya already has a jungle themed world, logo's appearance, MARO's mention of treasures)
I'm not an expert on such mythology but the following images come to mind
Pyramids and temples with hidden treasures, lush jungles, abundance of wildlife, poisonous snakes, winged serpents as in the plumed serpent, one of the deities they adored, human sacrifices
possible mechanics
1- a return of poison (I'm not a fun of that but it's possible, maybe with some tweak)
2- lands that give access to hidden treasures, like some new version of hideaway lands
3- some mechanic or at least a lrage amount of cards having something to do with sacrifices... too many possibilities come to mind to mention them all
notice that in Shards there are many cards that could benefit from sacs but not many sac outlets
4- Dragons in the form of winged or plumed serpents
also, while I think gold will be kept to a minimum, considering that the latest set emphasized allied pairings I expect some (but not too many) cards with enemy colors, it would interact well with shards that had tricolor cards and many allied ones but very little for enemy pairs... adding a few more anemy pairings would work well with shards and done in small numbers be interesting without being overwhelming
Any thoughts guys?
peace
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Niteowl the blue mage....
Originally posted by thepchapin
too many people are relying far too heavily on netdecking instead of actually pushing themselves to find ways to advance the format.
Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning
however, you doomed it when the plan became dependent on there being logic on the Internet.
jk
There's this guy from Speculation who's "quoted" something; if it is genuine (or if the guy with 1 post explains himself), it would be relevant to these theories.
could this alt reality be zendikar?
"•Zendikar is said to be host to some of the most powerful mana sources in the Multiverse, but "it is also unpredictable, erratic. Violent and pacific in the same moment." Later mention of the plane, towards the end, makes mention of how the mana behaves differently than anywhere else in the Multiverse, and how there apparently is an artifact of great power there.*"
this seems to support the flavor so if river of tears is in Zen what could that tell us about the rest of the block? thoughts anyone?
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Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
There's this guy from Speculation who's "quoted" something; if it is genuine (or if the guy with 1 post explains himself), it would be relevant to these theories.
The quote is paraphrasing another thread around here somewhere in which we discussed the things hinted about Zendikar from the most recent planeswalker novel. The "strange" mana and possible presence of a powerful artifact are both taken from there. The "River of Tears" connection is nonexistent, however.
I'd be pretty psyched if this were "Arabian Nights" done right, though. Definitely rooting for more Vedic and Islamic cultural appropriation!
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If your signature takes up more lines than your actual post does, you should fix one or both of them.
The logical thing to do would be to stop speculating because we have close to ZERO information.
A logical person does not attempt to draw conclusions about something when there is not enough evidence to back up any reasonable position.
I logical person would also understand that people like to speculate on upcomming sets. I have seen some really good threads that were about speculating upcomming sets with a few of them actually having some merit.
Keep up the speculatins guys. Its a really good read.
Ostrakon wins the thread. Speculation, by its very nature, needs something to stand on, some evidence to at least give it an interesting amount of credibility. There simply isn't enough to go on at this point, except that it's not multicolor-themed and that it's definitely not dinosaurs. Speculate away.
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A voice for Timmy.
Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
Naya was Mesoamerican.
The coatls "woke up" in Alara Reborn because Naya received some U mana. They were not just randomly thrown in there.
If anything, it might hint at Snakes receiving tribal support, but it definitely doesn't point out to further Coatls or a Mesoamerican theme.
All I can say is I am highly anticipating the set (and the rest of the block). I am already weary of Alara's shenanigans. And Lorwyn: yeah time to move on.
Mostly awaiting the new and returning planeswalkers, naturally. Nissa Revane is supposedly B/G - which gets my hopes up for some (limited, well-conceived) enemy color goodness.
I logical person would also understand that people like to speculate on upcomming sets. I have seen some really good threads that were about speculating upcomming sets with a few of them actually having some merit.
Keep up the speculatins guys. Its a really good read.
Sounds feasible == has merit.
Here is what we know for certain about ZEN:
-Not multicolor themed
-No dinosaurs
-No pirates
-the Tagline
-The logo and expansion symbol.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that any conclusion drawn from these tiny clues. Seriously. There is no argument that could possibly have merit based on this evidence.
So just stop already. We don't need another 6 threads when we know absolutely nothing new.
-Not multicolor themed
-No dinosaurs
-No pirates
-the Tagline
-The logo and expansion symbol.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that any conclusion drawn from these tiny clues. Seriously. There is no argument that could possibly have merit based on this evidence.
Well, they've told us there are no "pirates". But what's to stop them spelling it differently in Zendikar, like they did with fairies/faeries? It was clearly just them trying to fool us into thinking our spies hadn't already worked out the block theme. And you guys all fell for it :rolleyes:?
-Not multicolor themed
-No dinosaurs
-No pirates
-the Tagline
-The logo and expansion symbol.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that any conclusion drawn from these tiny clues. Seriously. There is no argument that could possibly have merit based on this evidence.
So just stop already. We don't need another 6 threads when we know absolutely nothing new.
I really don't see the need for this kind of reaction, the term speculation implies coming up hypothesis and theories that for the time being have little support.... if we had strong evidence or knew any of those facts for sure I wouldn't have posted it in speculation.... it seems to me that people who are not interested in guessing and making up theories can just avoid this section of the forum altogether....
and frankly I've seen much wilder speculation on these forums but that's what the thread is for
regarding those ideas, yeah, sure, possibly they're completely wrong
still, looking at the past few blocks obviously WOC does care more than in the past about inter-block synergy... and follows a certain logic, when shadowmoor came out, with allied hybrids, the logical assumption was that the expansion would focus on enemy hybrids... some people mentioned it on speculation threads but others dismissed it, still that's exactly what they did
ZEN might not necessarily be clearly based on mesoamerican myth, true, but the logo seems to have a certain ruins in the jungle kind of feel, and even if ZEN is not all out mesoamerican it would make sense, flavorwise, to go from ALA to a world that shares some characteristics with one of the shards, MARO did mention treasures, according to other threads, and that would fit the theme as well...
regarding the coatls, again in interblock design it makes sense to start introducing creature new creatures types in the previous expansion, in future sight of course they introduced creature types that would be explored more in depth later on.
but ok, if Naya was mesoamerica already the coatls may not return, it would still make for more cohesive flavor to go to a jungle world next, as it would mesh well with some of the NAYA concepts
peace
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Niteowl the blue mage....
Originally posted by thepchapin
too many people are relying far too heavily on netdecking instead of actually pushing themselves to find ways to advance the format.
Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning
Based on WOC staff comments, interblock design issues (coatls) and ideas posted on other threads I'll venture the following guesses
Flavor- a world loosely inspired by mesoamerican mythology
(reasons: introduction of coatl and flying snakes in Shards, typical images of such mythology, Naya already has a jungle themed world, logo's appearance, MARO's mention of treasures)
I'm not an expert on such mythology but the following images come to mind
Pyramids and temples with hidden treasures, lush jungles, abundance of wildlife, poisonous snakes, winged serpents as in the plumed serpent, one of the deities they adored, human sacrifices
possible mechanics
1- a return of poison (I'm not a fun of that but it's possible, maybe with some tweak)
2- lands that give access to hidden treasures, like some new version of hideaway lands
3- some mechanic or at least a lrage amount of cards having something to do with sacrifices... too many possibilities come to mind to mention them all
notice that in Shards there are many cards that could benefit from sacs but not many sac outlets
4- Dragons in the form of winged or plumed serpents
also, while I think gold will be kept to a minimum, considering that the latest set emphasized allied pairings I expect some (but not too many) cards with enemy colors, it would interact well with shards that had tricolor cards and many allied ones but very little for enemy pairs... adding a few more anemy pairings would work well with shards and done in small numbers be interesting without being overwhelming
Any thoughts guys?
peace
Don't be so skeptical ... Poison is tons of fun.
I'm the only person I've ever met who does it, but I play a poison deck that wins all the time. It's a cheap, nasty little casual deck.
Sabertooth Cobra + Hermetic Study + Murkfiend Liege (the only non-Snake in the whole deck). Gets the job done quite well. 1 counter ... 1 counter the next turn (or mana screw!) ... untap every turn, repeat. In a one-on-one ... it's something like:
MY TURN: Tap: Have 1 Poison counter.
YOUR TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have another!
MY TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have another!
YOUR TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have another!
MY TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have yet another!
YOUR TURN: Added up faster than you thought, didn't it?
Or there's the occasional:
MY TURN: Tap: Have 1 Poison counter.
YOUR TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have another!
MY TURN: Tap: Have 4 Poison counters! Yay for Snake Pit Offering!
YOUR TURN: Sweet, sweet death.
It's no more a gimmick than Milling. In fact, people are far more willing to die to 10 poison counters then they are to being Traumatized then followed up with Bitter Ordeal. At least you feel like you have more time with Poison, or that give it a turn, you'll deal with that pesky Poison creature.
The problem with basing any information of the logo is that you can base too much of the logo. So far I have seen people making a pretty decent case based on the logo that the flavour of ZEN is: Prehistoic, Meso-American, Egyptian, Persian or Indian.
It'd be pretty cool if it had all those civilizations though. Romans and Egyptians and Native Americans and Mongolians and Aztecs and stuff.
An ancient empires theme would be nice to see one day at least.
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@_@
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
But then, this might be creative leading the mechanics - just as Esper has artifacts (which are at odd with a multicolour block). The block theme is (thankfully) more diluted than before allowing for more diversity in standard. So this might just be an odd, flavourful, yet synergistic mechanic not representative of the block as a whole.
I think you're on to something here. When we first got flavor information about Shards of Alara, it was a document that talked exclusively about etherium and filigree; the other shards weren't even mentioned, so speculation based on that was really inaccurate compared to what Shards turned out to be. "Weird mana" might be just one implementation of Zendikar's theme, which just happened to be the aspect of the plane the author focused on for getting Chandra to decide to go there.
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If your signature takes up more lines than your actual post does, you should fix one or both of them.
So really, there's a lot to speculate on, just it's not all in one place. I support MikeyG's call for a compiled info thread.
It's coming. It's currently stuck at the top of the Mill, an invisible work in progress. Presuming my life allows me to have the free time and initiative to work on it, I should have it completed by mid-week.
But then, this might be creative leading the mechanics - just as Esper has artifacts (which are at odd with a multicolour block). The block theme is (thankfully) more diluted than before allowing for more diversity in standard. So this might just be an odd, flavourful, yet synergistic mechanic not representative of the block as a whole.
This is my theory as well. We've had plenty of cases in the past where a single creative element made sense in context, but lead to completely odd conclusions when we considered it on its own.
(Also, I feel like "weird mana" is like this catchall place they go to for every block. I feel like almost every block story revolves around how the plane has "unusual" and "strong" mana that some generic villain needs to "harness" in order to gain the "ultimate power" -- that's certainly what both Lorwyn and Alara boil down to.)
maybe part of the deadly perils/alternate win condition concepts will revolve around a mechanic that is similar in nature to cards like armageddon clock where there is an interaction between two players involving a singular card that affects the game in a drastic way. i truly hope that there is a sub-theme using artifacts that are legendary and have very big roles in the set like mirrari.
There's nothing logical at all about what you've said. There's no reason at all to believe that this is Mesoamerican based. The only connections are the stone texture in the logo (which doesn't look like limestone and anyway stone can be connected to any ancient culture that ever existed and every culture that uses stone in construction) and the pyramids on the insert card.
But those pyramids aren't at all Mesoamerican in appearance. In fact, they look much more like Egyptian pyramids and if you look at the logo again, some of the curves of the letterforms and the closed-off 'A' are somewhat similar to hieroglyphics. So if we're gonna speculate about anything, it should be that.
This is my theory as well. We've had plenty of cases in the past where a single creative element made sense in context, but lead to completely odd conclusions when we considered it on its own.
(Also, I feel like "weird mana" is like this catchall place they go to for every block. I feel like almost every block story revolves around how the plane has "unusual" and "strong" mana that some generic villain needs to "harness" in order to gain the "ultimate power" -- that's certainly what both Lorwyn and Alara boil down to.)
Don't forget Time Spiral block, where the mana on Dominaria all but dried up, and everyone had to "harness" the power of the temporal anomalies that were appearing all over the plane.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
— Szadek
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Flavor- a world loosely inspired by mesoamerican mythology
(reasons: introduction of coatl and flying snakes in Shards, typical images of such mythology, Naya already has a jungle themed world, logo's appearance, MARO's mention of treasures)
I'm not an expert on such mythology but the following images come to mind
Pyramids and temples with hidden treasures, lush jungles, abundance of wildlife, poisonous snakes, winged serpents as in the plumed serpent, one of the deities they adored, human sacrifices
possible mechanics
1- a return of poison (I'm not a fun of that but it's possible, maybe with some tweak)
2- lands that give access to hidden treasures, like some new version of hideaway lands
3- some mechanic or at least a lrage amount of cards having something to do with sacrifices... too many possibilities come to mind to mention them all
notice that in Shards there are many cards that could benefit from sacs but not many sac outlets
4- Dragons in the form of winged or plumed serpents
also, while I think gold will be kept to a minimum, considering that the latest set emphasized allied pairings I expect some (but not too many) cards with enemy colors, it would interact well with shards that had tricolor cards and many allied ones but very little for enemy pairs... adding a few more anemy pairings would work well with shards and done in small numbers be interesting without being overwhelming
Any thoughts guys?
peace
Originally posted by thepchapin
too many people are relying far too heavily on netdecking instead of actually pushing themselves to find ways to advance the format.
Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning
however, you doomed it when the plan became dependent on there being logic on the Internet.
jk
There's this guy from Speculation who's "quoted" something; if it is genuine (or if the guy with 1 post explains himself), it would be relevant to these theories.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
A logical person does not attempt to draw conclusions about something when there is not enough evidence to back up any reasonable position.
UGR Intet, the Dreamer
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
W Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
My Sales Post!
The quote is paraphrasing another thread around here somewhere in which we discussed the things hinted about Zendikar from the most recent planeswalker novel. The "strange" mana and possible presence of a powerful artifact are both taken from there. The "River of Tears" connection is nonexistent, however.
I'd be pretty psyched if this were "Arabian Nights" done right, though. Definitely rooting for more Vedic and Islamic cultural appropriation!
I logical person would also understand that people like to speculate on upcomming sets. I have seen some really good threads that were about speculating upcomming sets with a few of them actually having some merit.
Keep up the speculatins guys. Its a really good read.
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
The coatls "woke up" in Alara Reborn because Naya received some U mana. They were not just randomly thrown in there.
If anything, it might hint at Snakes receiving tribal support, but it definitely doesn't point out to further Coatls or a Mesoamerican theme.
Mostly awaiting the new and returning planeswalkers, naturally. Nissa Revane is supposedly B/G - which gets my hopes up for some (limited, well-conceived) enemy color goodness.
Sounds feasible == has merit.
Here is what we know for certain about ZEN:
-Not multicolor themed
-No dinosaurs
-No pirates
-the Tagline
-The logo and expansion symbol.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that any conclusion drawn from these tiny clues. Seriously. There is no argument that could possibly have merit based on this evidence.
So just stop already. We don't need another 6 threads when we know absolutely nothing new.
UGR Intet, the Dreamer
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
W Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
Well, they've told us there are no "pirates". But what's to stop them spelling it differently in Zendikar, like they did with fairies/faeries? It was clearly just them trying to fool us into thinking our spies hadn't already worked out the block theme. And you guys all fell for it :rolleyes:?
Obviously, there are pyrates in Zendikar.
I really don't see the need for this kind of reaction, the term speculation implies coming up hypothesis and theories that for the time being have little support.... if we had strong evidence or knew any of those facts for sure I wouldn't have posted it in speculation.... it seems to me that people who are not interested in guessing and making up theories can just avoid this section of the forum altogether....
and frankly I've seen much wilder speculation on these forums but that's what the thread is for
regarding those ideas, yeah, sure, possibly they're completely wrong
still, looking at the past few blocks obviously WOC does care more than in the past about inter-block synergy... and follows a certain logic, when shadowmoor came out, with allied hybrids, the logical assumption was that the expansion would focus on enemy hybrids... some people mentioned it on speculation threads but others dismissed it, still that's exactly what they did
ZEN might not necessarily be clearly based on mesoamerican myth, true, but the logo seems to have a certain ruins in the jungle kind of feel, and even if ZEN is not all out mesoamerican it would make sense, flavorwise, to go from ALA to a world that shares some characteristics with one of the shards, MARO did mention treasures, according to other threads, and that would fit the theme as well...
regarding the coatls, again in interblock design it makes sense to start introducing creature new creatures types in the previous expansion, in future sight of course they introduced creature types that would be explored more in depth later on.
but ok, if Naya was mesoamerica already the coatls may not return, it would still make for more cohesive flavor to go to a jungle world next, as it would mesh well with some of the NAYA concepts
peace
Originally posted by thepchapin
too many people are relying far too heavily on netdecking instead of actually pushing themselves to find ways to advance the format.
Originally Posted by badjuju
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning
Don't be so skeptical ... Poison is tons of fun.
I'm the only person I've ever met who does it, but I play a poison deck that wins all the time. It's a cheap, nasty little casual deck.
Sabertooth Cobra + Hermetic Study + Murkfiend Liege (the only non-Snake in the whole deck). Gets the job done quite well. 1 counter ... 1 counter the next turn (or mana screw!) ... untap every turn, repeat. In a one-on-one ... it's something like:
MY TURN: Tap: Have 1 Poison counter.
YOUR TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have another!
MY TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have another!
YOUR TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have another!
MY TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have yet another!
YOUR TURN: Added up faster than you thought, didn't it?
Or there's the occasional:
MY TURN: Tap: Have 1 Poison counter.
YOUR TURN: Get 1 more for free! Here, have another!
MY TURN: Tap: Have 4 Poison counters! Yay for Snake Pit Offering!
YOUR TURN: Sweet, sweet death.
It's no more a gimmick than Milling. In fact, people are far more willing to die to 10 poison counters then they are to being Traumatized then followed up with Bitter Ordeal. At least you feel like you have more time with Poison, or that give it a turn, you'll deal with that pesky Poison creature.
GIVE ARABIAN NIGHTS THE COLDSNAP TREATMENT!
It'd be pretty cool if it had all those civilizations though. Romans and Egyptians and Native Americans and Mongolians and Aztecs and stuff.
An ancient empires theme would be nice to see one day at least.
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
Thanks to scuttlemutt productions!
I think you're on to something here. When we first got flavor information about Shards of Alara, it was a document that talked exclusively about etherium and filigree; the other shards weren't even mentioned, so speculation based on that was really inaccurate compared to what Shards turned out to be. "Weird mana" might be just one implementation of Zendikar's theme, which just happened to be the aspect of the plane the author focused on for getting Chandra to decide to go there.
It's coming. It's currently stuck at the top of the Mill, an invisible work in progress. Presuming my life allows me to have the free time and initiative to work on it, I should have it completed by mid-week.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
This is my theory as well. We've had plenty of cases in the past where a single creative element made sense in context, but lead to completely odd conclusions when we considered it on its own.
(Also, I feel like "weird mana" is like this catchall place they go to for every block. I feel like almost every block story revolves around how the plane has "unusual" and "strong" mana that some generic villain needs to "harness" in order to gain the "ultimate power" -- that's certainly what both Lorwyn and Alara boil down to.)
No.
Zen will not have a block theme that's been done before. And artifacts have certainly been a block theme before.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I thought we were all in agreement that that block never existed?
Thanks to the [Æther] shop for the sig!
You mean both of them? Antiquities was an artifact set.
But those pyramids aren't at all Mesoamerican in appearance. In fact, they look much more like Egyptian pyramids and if you look at the logo again, some of the curves of the letterforms and the closed-off 'A' are somewhat similar to hieroglyphics. So if we're gonna speculate about anything, it should be that.
RRR Buy some of my art! Prints! RRR
So Planar Chaos 2.0? Yay!
Umm... Because 1/5th of Alara Block was artifact themed, maybe? Seriously, Esper is reason enough.
Oh wait, that's right! M10 was designed in a vacuum
Don't forget Time Spiral block, where the mana on Dominaria all but dried up, and everyone had to "harness" the power of the temporal anomalies that were appearing all over the plane.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."