How about shocklands for allied colors and painlands for enemy colors? Playing enemy colors should be more 'difficult' then playing allied colors, right?
Look at me! I can bold words and use CAPSLOCK to emphasize my point! Hopefully I can trick people into ignoring that I completely have no evidence in my post to back up my claims if I make it look fancy enough.
I want the fetchlands. They work for the domain mechanic as they search for basic land. They are also more powerful as they thin out the deck making it easier to top deck.
How about shocklands for allied colors and painlands for enemy colors? Playing enemy colors should be more 'difficult' then playing allied colors, right?
no that is so stupid. enemy colors already get crap compared to allied colors. they shouldn't be slapped in the face anymore
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no that is so stupid. enemy colors already get crap compared to allied colors. they shouldn't be slapped in the face anymore
What? You mean like Stillmoon Cavalier, Unmake, Tidehollow Sculler, and Figure of Destiny? Yes, WoTC prints fewer cards in enemy color combos, but they're supposed to...it doesn't mean those cards are any worse or are a "slap to the face" to its customers, however.
I do disagree with using 2 different types of lands for allies vs enemies...but I wouldn't mind seeing only Allied dual lands, or no dual lands.
no that is so stupid. enemy colors already get crap compared to allied colors. they shouldn't be slapped in the face anymore
Isn't that the point of calling them allied vs enemy. While bother calling them enemy colors if you are just going to have them used together as commonly as you do allied colors? All the colors should equally like/dislike all the others, maybe they could hold hands and sing Kumbaya together.
Fetch are hands down the best...but a reprint of them is a guarantee price hike (Standard for a while...EXT for even longer). Only the painlands (although useful) are not an "auto-i-need-four-of-these". Fetch/Shocks will jack up current prices on them plus be essential toward building anything (of any format) that's deemed competitive.
I'd say Fetch because they're the most useful (I play older formats and having them reprinted would be nice).
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
The reason I voted against painlands is because in standard right now, anyking of basic land refrencing card is worthless.
Also conflux is domain.
All point to shocklands.
No. There is a difference between the themes designed for a set, and the cards intended for highly efficient pro-level competitive play (or did the Orzhov's "bleeding" theme show up in a bunch of top-level decks I didn't notice?).
You know what other cards help the Domain ability word? Farhaven Elf and Bant Panorama. Wizards of the Coast may not intend for it to get any more help than that - you have no way of knowing.
I really doubt they would print fetches in a base set as they are pretty complex. They can create large time sinks due to the shuffling, which I doubt wizards wants to reintroduce to standard. I would prefer fetches, but I'm guessing they will go again for painlands as they are the simplest out of these dual lands.
I'd like them to reprint fetch lands. Then that way the prices for them won't go so high to where they worry about the people who bought them at high prices.
Even though I voted for Pains, Shocks wouldn't be horrible. Considering how there are probably going to be 45 rares in 11th if the projected set size is accurate, there's no chance of the prices of shocks holding. You'd probably pay $80 for a box of 11th, and you'd probably open 8 shocks. I doubt that the prices would be above $7 because of this.
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I am petitioning for the removal of all other signature petitions. WoTC doesn't give a crap about them. Get over yourself and sig this to join the cause.
I'm thinking the Fetchlands would happen if it weren't for the Shocklands. Domain does indeed point to the possibility of Shocklands, but it's still really up in the air.
Yeah. I like the Rav lands too. I like the fact they are the most like the Alpha Duals. (maybe some day the Alpha Duals will be reprinted... crazy talk I know.)
All of them have their goods and bads. The Fetch lands would open up room for more rares since there are only 5 of them. The pain lands would not upset collectors and would make it easy for people to get the lands they need for their deck (they are worth what $4 now?)
But I like the shock lands the best. And I hope they come back to T2.Stop being silly. They only do reprints in core sets. Enough with the enemy fetchs already.
WRONG WRONG WRONG ALPHA DUALS WILL NEVER BE REPRINTED
They're on the nonreprintable list for crying out loud ever hear of it it contains some of the most unique and most powerful cards in the game. And good god it would hurt the value because they would be black bordered
I would hate to see fetches reprinted because I want them to go down, I don't care but the rav shock lands seem the best choice not overly powerful but they aren't as bad as pain lands with the exception that they can tap for 1 colorless and not hurt you.
I would like to see city of brass reprinted it just about obsoletes the pain lands in standard and I'd like a black bordered version that isn't $28 thank you
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I would like to see city of brass reprinted it just about obsoletes the pain lands in standard and I'd like a black bordered version that isn't $28 thank you
..and you like black borders, you just don't like spending a lot of money for them.:)
I know I omitted the part where you said shocks would probably be best, but I think you pretty much summed up how a lot of people feel about this question. People who already have their lands don't want to buy new ones, or don't want their value to go down. People who don't have them want them to be cheaper/not go up in value.
Wizards may have tried to show they care about the secondary market with their misguided reserved list, but they will print what sells/is best for the game.
My own selfish answer to the question is "other," but I don't think that's going to happen.
Wizards is printing some decent common/uncommon mana fixing for casual or new players, but duals will always be needed for competitive level and always be needed to sell core sets.
I think a better argument would be how much/if prices of shocks would be affected by being reprinted in 11th, as the cost seems to be a primary concern and they are the likely candidates.
I really don't think they would go up that much with the set size being so small, coupled with the fact that so many are already in circulation. They're still only like $7-10 apiece, and it's the middle of extended season. They might hit $12-15, but not 20.
EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
- The OFL (Onslaught-Fetch-Land) has a 1-life payment requirement, TE does not.
Life payments are not too complicated for the base set. There has always been plenty of cards with life payment in the base set.
- With the lands of Shadowmoor, as well as the RAV duals, getting a "Forest" or "Plains" is alot more vague on what can be fetched via OFL as opposed to TE, which is just basic land.
"Forest" is more complicated to understand than "basic land". Right. Tell it to Wood Elves.
TE is a common. OFL are Rare.
So what?
- TE has been in Time Spiral, 10th edition, and if it is- 11th. OFL have not been used since Onslaught only.
They never bring back really old cards out of nowhere into base sets.
Oh, wait.
Abundance (rare) is in 10th, wasn't seen since URZA BLOCK, same for Academy Researchers (unc). Afflict came into 10th out of Odyssey block (common) and Aggressive urge (common) from Invasion. This is just the first half of the letter A.
I hope you're a bit embarrassed about these arguments.
- TE puts the card into play tapped, correctly showing that the card has a drawback to being used over a basic land. The OFL only have the 1 life payment- the fetched card simply replaces the OFL that was on the field.
1 life payment is also a drawback. In fact, Wizards own studies have shown that newer players tend to regard life as a higher drawback than come into play tapped.
ALL OF THAT SAID, no matter how utterly terrible your arguments, I agree that the shocklands are more likely than the fetchlands, mostly because there has been no buzz about the fetchlands coming back and they have somewhat encouraged the buzz about the shocklands coming back. I also think they aren't overly crazy about fetchlands being able to continue fueling all the stuff they come up with which looks to the graveyard (from Life from the Loam to Tarmogoyf) for another 7 years.
Also, the fetchlands rotating out of extended will make it that much harder to do consistent 5 color Good Stuff decks, and that's another stated goal of Wizards R&D. If they reprint the fetchlands, we don't lose any color fixing until Ravnica leaves Extended, which is still a long way away.
EDIT: The original duals are never coming back, get over it. The painlands are possible but boring. The only reason I can see for them to not reprint the shocklands in 11th is if they believe it will overpower Domain in Standard (possible), in which case they'll print the pains and then reprint the shocklands in 12th. I'm pretty sure that, especially with the fetches gone, they will want to keep the shocklands in Extended.
From my own player's point of view (completely casual), I like them better than the fetcher.
WotC would sell more packs using the shock lands as people will buy packs just on the of chance to get one... And the chances to actually get one is higher than the current fetches as the set size of 11th will be smaller than the one for 10th.
Maybe, if the prices for chocks goes down enough, more casual players will be able to afford them and play 2 or 3 colors... I'd like that! (And I DO have about a half play-set of the chock duals, thank you).
Hasn't Wizards said they don't like affects that make you shuffle your deck because it slows down the game? I dont think they will do fetchlanfs. Also if Shocks come out in 11th what do you think that will do to the prices of Pains?
the price of pains will drop a lot. Since no format aside from Standard uses them (maybe EDH and Highlander), no one will be buying them, and they'll fall again. Probably back to the level they were at when they weren't in a core set.
I think that the fetchlands are a better choice than the shocklands, for a number of reasons.
There are only five fetchlands and ten shocklands, and 53 rare slots in 11th edition. Shocklands would take up a fifth of the rare slots, which is a lot to devote to mana fixing. They could leave out the enemy shocklands, but that would feel half-assed.
They would also provide an incentive to play basic lands. I'm sure we're all sick of technicolor manabases by now.
And for what it's worth I own a complete set of painlands and a complete set of shocklands, but zero fetchlands.
I'd like to see shocklands partly because it would make it a lot easier for me to put together Standard decks. I've got a nearly complete set of them (anyone got some spare Hallowed Fountains?) already, so I'd have a lot of options going in. Fetchlands would be ok too, but I would want those mostly to finish off my playsets. I think they just aren't great when used to fetch basics. Fetches shine when you can play them shocklands and duals.
I guess I'll be happy no matter what, but my guess is we'll get pain again with an outside chance of shocks. I'll be quite surprised if we get fetches.
Maybe, if the prices for chocks goes down enough, more casual players will be able to afford them and play 2 or 3 colors... I'd like that!
They would exist in higher numbers, which would tend to lower the price. But they would also be legal again in Standard, the most-played competitive format, which would be a much stronger force tending to raise their price. They reached $20-25 apiece (don't lose sight of that. One Hallowed Fountain cost $25, and I'm sure plenty of people will jump on this post claiming that it only cost $9 at their store or that I don't know how to trade up. Don't believe them), and they would reach $20-25 apiece again.
Thus, like during Ravnica, it would be an oppressive GoodStuff.frmt where lots of players would be priced out of even FNM. Nobody should want that.
(And before the next inevitable accusation, namely budget whining: I have a full set of 40 shocklands. I know what they can do. I know I never want them in Standard again.)
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
no that is so stupid. enemy colors already get crap compared to allied colors. they shouldn't be slapped in the face anymore
What? You mean like Stillmoon Cavalier, Unmake, Tidehollow Sculler, and Figure of Destiny? Yes, WoTC prints fewer cards in enemy color combos, but they're supposed to...it doesn't mean those cards are any worse or are a "slap to the face" to its customers, however.
I do disagree with using 2 different types of lands for allies vs enemies...but I wouldn't mind seeing only Allied dual lands, or no dual lands.
Isn't that the point of calling them allied vs enemy. While bother calling them enemy colors if you are just going to have them used together as commonly as you do allied colors? All the colors should equally like/dislike all the others, maybe they could hold hands and sing Kumbaya together.
I'd say Fetch because they're the most useful (I play older formats and having them reprinted would be nice).
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
No. There is a difference between the themes designed for a set, and the cards intended for highly efficient pro-level competitive play (or did the Orzhov's "bleeding" theme show up in a bunch of top-level decks I didn't notice?).
You know what other cards help the Domain ability word? Farhaven Elf and Bant Panorama. Wizards of the Coast may not intend for it to get any more help than that - you have no way of knowing.
The difference between you and I is that I don't claim to be a good player.
I am petitioning for the removal of all other signature petitions. WoTC doesn't give a crap about them.
Get over yourself and sig this to join the cause.
WRONG WRONG WRONG ALPHA DUALS WILL NEVER BE REPRINTED
They're on the nonreprintable list for crying out loud ever hear of it it contains some of the most unique and most powerful cards in the game. And good god it would hurt the value because they would be black bordered
I would hate to see fetches reprinted because I want them to go down, I don't care but the rav shock lands seem the best choice not overly powerful but they aren't as bad as pain lands with the exception that they can tap for 1 colorless and not hurt you.
I would like to see city of brass reprinted it just about obsoletes the pain lands in standard and I'd like a black bordered version that isn't $28 thank you
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...you do have some dual lands....
...you don't have fetches...
..and you like black borders, you just don't like spending a lot of money for them.:)
I know I omitted the part where you said shocks would probably be best, but I think you pretty much summed up how a lot of people feel about this question. People who already have their lands don't want to buy new ones, or don't want their value to go down. People who don't have them want them to be cheaper/not go up in value.
Wizards may have tried to show they care about the secondary market with their misguided reserved list, but they will print what sells/is best for the game.
My own selfish answer to the question is "other," but I don't think that's going to happen.
Wizards is printing some decent common/uncommon mana fixing for casual or new players, but duals will always be needed for competitive level and always be needed to sell core sets.
I think a better argument would be how much/if prices of shocks would be affected by being reprinted in 11th, as the cost seems to be a primary concern and they are the likely candidates.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Life payments are not too complicated for the base set. There has always been plenty of cards with life payment in the base set.
"Forest" is more complicated to understand than "basic land". Right. Tell it to Wood Elves.
So what?
They never bring back really old cards out of nowhere into base sets.
Oh, wait.
Abundance (rare) is in 10th, wasn't seen since URZA BLOCK, same for Academy Researchers (unc). Afflict came into 10th out of Odyssey block (common) and Aggressive urge (common) from Invasion. This is just the first half of the letter A.
I hope you're a bit embarrassed about these arguments.
1 life payment is also a drawback. In fact, Wizards own studies have shown that newer players tend to regard life as a higher drawback than come into play tapped.
ALL OF THAT SAID, no matter how utterly terrible your arguments, I agree that the shocklands are more likely than the fetchlands, mostly because there has been no buzz about the fetchlands coming back and they have somewhat encouraged the buzz about the shocklands coming back. I also think they aren't overly crazy about fetchlands being able to continue fueling all the stuff they come up with which looks to the graveyard (from Life from the Loam to Tarmogoyf) for another 7 years.
Also, the fetchlands rotating out of extended will make it that much harder to do consistent 5 color Good Stuff decks, and that's another stated goal of Wizards R&D. If they reprint the fetchlands, we don't lose any color fixing until Ravnica leaves Extended, which is still a long way away.
EDIT: The original duals are never coming back, get over it. The painlands are possible but boring. The only reason I can see for them to not reprint the shocklands in 11th is if they believe it will overpower Domain in Standard (possible), in which case they'll print the pains and then reprint the shocklands in 12th. I'm pretty sure that, especially with the fetches gone, they will want to keep the shocklands in Extended.
From my own player's point of view (completely casual), I like them better than the fetcher.
WotC would sell more packs using the shock lands as people will buy packs just on the of chance to get one... And the chances to actually get one is higher than the current fetches as the set size of 11th will be smaller than the one for 10th.
Maybe, if the prices for chocks goes down enough, more casual players will be able to afford them and play 2 or 3 colors... I'd like that! (And I DO have about a half play-set of the chock duals, thank you).
DCI Judge
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
There are only five fetchlands and ten shocklands, and 53 rare slots in 11th edition. Shocklands would take up a fifth of the rare slots, which is a lot to devote to mana fixing. They could leave out the enemy shocklands, but that would feel half-assed.
They would also provide an incentive to play basic lands. I'm sure we're all sick of technicolor manabases by now.
And for what it's worth I own a complete set of painlands and a complete set of shocklands, but zero fetchlands.
I guess I'll be happy no matter what, but my guess is we'll get pain again with an outside chance of shocks. I'll be quite surprised if we get fetches.
T2
URG Destructive Force
UW Caw-Blade
Legacy
W Stax
U Merfolk
EDH
RB Bladewing the Risen
GW Tolsimir Wolfblood
UB Sygg, River Cutthroat
WUBRG Progenitus
B Maga, Traitor to Mortals
WUR Numot, the Devastator
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking
GWR Hazezon Tamar
Peasant
U Pros-Tide
Casual
BR Flaming Zombies Attack!
G Primalcrux
UR Pyromancer Ascension
UB Mill
They would exist in higher numbers, which would tend to lower the price. But they would also be legal again in Standard, the most-played competitive format, which would be a much stronger force tending to raise their price. They reached $20-25 apiece (don't lose sight of that. One Hallowed Fountain cost $25, and I'm sure plenty of people will jump on this post claiming that it only cost $9 at their store or that I don't know how to trade up. Don't believe them), and they would reach $20-25 apiece again.
Thus, like during Ravnica, it would be an oppressive GoodStuff.frmt where lots of players would be priced out of even FNM. Nobody should want that.
(And before the next inevitable accusation, namely budget whining: I have a full set of 40 shocklands. I know what they can do. I know I never want them in Standard again.)