That second one is way overpowered, for an initial investment of 3URB you can gain 15 life and hit your opponent for 15? That means your opponent has to invest all his efforts into killing that damn thing before it kills him
I'm sorry but that's OP as heck.
i actually didnt monkey with the numbers after changing it up, but it's probably better off as a -3
I think Nicol Bolas may be the shadow seen in Cruel Ultimatum, and think his abilities would be cool if they were the tripple effect
RRBUU-----mana cost is focused towards edges because the return of G and W in conflux should diminish blacks power
Nicol Bolas, Plainswalker
loyalty 1
+1:target player sacrifices a creature,return target creature from your graveyard to your hand
-2:gain 5 life, target player loses 5 life
-3:target player discards 3 cards, draw 3 cards
Any time I see someone suggesting +2: Gain Two Cards Advantage as a serious ability on any card, especially a planeswalker, I am reminded why I don't take these things seriously.
I don't mean to be snide, but seriously. That's not even -close- to the realm of playable. It'd either require the Planeswalker to be costed out of the realm of deck-building, or it would be too broken to see print.
Compare that to Jace, which has -1 to draw a card or +2 for -all players- to draw a card.
+2: Destroy Creature + more stuff isn't in line with that level of power. MAYBE it'd be a secondary ability, at -2 or -3, but that -definately- is not your loyalty gain ability.
You also won't see mana costs in there because a) that's not how planeswalkers work, and b) even if they decided to explore that design space, they have to be concerned with the text space on the card.
Forcing Discard isn't likely to be the +1 ability because of Lilliana Vess, as appropriate as it is to Nicol Bolas. What you -might- see is the ultimate forcing the discard of the opponent's entire hand. That is a little bit more in line with how planeswalkers work.
+1 return target creature in your graveyard to your hand
-1 remove all graveyards from the game, draw a card
-7 search your opponents library for 10 cards and remove them from the game
4 loyalty
what does evry1 think of that? it makes sinc that the - ability will be his old PT. and we know that he will be grixis because of the ultimatum picture. i think that this holds him true to the shard without sacrificing power and at the same time not making him toooooo overpowered
Any time I see someone suggesting +2: Gain Two Cards Advantage as a serious ability on any card, especially a planeswalker, I am reminded why I don't take these things seriously.
I don't mean to be snide, but seriously. That's not even -close- to the realm of playable. It'd either require the Planeswalker to be costed out of the realm of deck-building, or it would be too broken to see print.
Compare that to Jace, which has -1 to draw a card or +2 for -all players- to draw a card.
+2: Destroy Creature + more stuff isn't in line with that level of power. MAYBE it'd be a secondary ability, at -2 or -3, but that -definately- is not your loyalty gain ability.
You also won't see mana costs in there because a) that's not how planeswalkers work, and b) even if they decided to explore that design space, they have to be concerned with the text space on the card.
Forcing Discard isn't likely to be the +1 ability because of Lilliana Vess, as appropriate as it is to Nicol Bolas. What you -might- see is the ultimate forcing the discard of the opponent's entire hand. That is a little bit more in line with how planeswalkers work.
I agree with most of your points. However its not impossible to coceive some things we haven't seen before on bolas both because of his character and also his possible mana cost. A planeswalker costing 3 colors has never been made and can set a precedent for more powerful abilities because of its difficult casting cost. something like +1: draw a card seems very powerful because of its comparison to Jace, however at 5 mana with 3 colors involved, its actually kind of underwhelming. It'll be interesting to see to say the least.
mostly everyone agrees that nicol bolas will be RUB in some form or another with most agreeing on 2RUB
all the planeswalkers have at the moment abilities that can be activated no matter what so something along the lines of (+1 Destroy target creature) would not exist, due to the fact that if there's no target you can't use the ability.
I believe nicole bolas will be something like this
2RUB
+1: Target player reveals 3 cards. Choose one of them. That player discards that card.
-2: Target player discards 2 cards at random.
-5: Name a color. Target player discards all cards of the chosen color.
+1 return target creature in your graveyard to your hand
And if you have no creature card in your graveyard? The +1 ability needs to be something you can pull off every turn. It would be an intresting twist to do something like this but instead make it a +2.
If they did make Bolas into a PW, he would have to be rediciously good, but at the same time balanced...
Here is what I think he would be.
+1 Sacrifice a creature you control, draw a two cards.
-5 Target player discards their hand.
-20 Target player loses the game.
Starts at 1.
Bolas would have little loyality for a weak PW like you so he would start at 1.
Also in order for him to gain loyality for you, you would have to show loyality for him by sacrificing your creatures. His minus five ability is a reflection of his old card ability. And as for his minus twenty... come on... this is Bolas were talking about...
If they did make Bolas into a PW, he would have to be rediciously good, but at the same time balanced...
Here is what I think he would be.
+1 Sacrifice a creature you control, draw a two cards.
-5 Target player discards their hand.
-20 Target player loses the game.
Starts at 1.
Bolas would have little loyality for a weak PW like you so he would start at 1.
Also in order for him to gain loyality for you, you would have to show loyality for him by sacrificing your creatures. His minus five ability is a reflection of his old card ability. And as for his minus twenty... come on... this is Bolas were talking about...
Nicol Bolas isn't going to be the uberstrong old-school power planeswalker, due to the events that made planeswalkers no longer uberstrong old-school powerful.
Also, this card is unplayable. Any plainswalker that can be instantly countered by a Shock is probably not going to see play in any environment including casual.
If they did make Bolas into a PW, he would have to be rediciously good, but at the same time balanced...
Here is what I think he would be.
+1 Sacrifice a creature you control, draw a two cards.
-5 Target player discards their hand.
-20 Target player loses the game.
Starts at 1.
Bolas would have little loyality for a weak PW like you so he would start at 1.
Also in order for him to gain loyality for you, you would have to show loyality for him by sacrificing your creatures. His minus five ability is a reflection of his old card ability. And as for his minus twenty... come on... this is Bolas were talking about...
How about he comes into play with three loyalty counters instead of 1. Also, Bolas planeswalked to a faraway place so that his spark wouldn't be affected by the mending. So he is still the uber powerful, old school PW that he always was.
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I am Boros. My colors are red and white. I fight for justice and order, but beleive that chaos and battle are means to achieve my goals.
Planeswalk (this card may be put into play at any time you want, and from where you want, even if it isn't in your deck at the beginning of the game)
Flying, Fear, Haste
1/1
really?? a planeswalker that is arguably the strongest ever (next to karn and urza) is a 1/1. come on dude. its a cool idea but i think you got the fundamentals of what PWs are. its more like add 3 to that cost and 5 to teh power and the toughness. that is IF its a creature. most likely it will be an actual PW and it will be extremely powerful. think of it this way. wizards made all teh planeswalkers huge parts of teh story, so it would never make since for them to suck or be week. they want to see their creation being played in every format. so he is going to be as close to broken as they can get him without making him goyf 2.0.
How about he comes into play with three loyalty counters instead of 1. Also, Bolas planeswalked to a faraway place so that his spark wouldn't be affected by the mending. So he is still the uber powerful, old school PW that he always was.
you do have a point about his strength. but i think that this version of teh walker is going in the wrong direction. when he comes back he will be asserting his power, killing things and making his presence known. so i really think that he will have hand hate/creature hate + graveyard hate + library manipulation (something like remove a bunch of cards in their library from teh game or play several of their cards with no cost or maybe even super bribery) the only reason that i am leaning a lil more towards removing things instead of free casting or stealing is that he is powerful by himself and doesnt need other people stuff.
Nicol Bolas isn't going to be the uberstrong old-school power planeswalker, due to the events that made planeswalkers no longer uberstrong old-school powerful.
I hate to point this out, but according to the book Bolas walked out of those events stronger than ever and having annihilated Kamigawa, or at least Nightsreach.
Edit: It had nothing to do with being far away and everything to do with not walking face first into a rift with the goal of sacrificing himself to close it.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
I hate to point this out, but according to the book Bolas walked out of those events stronger than ever and having annihilated Kamigawa, or at least Nightsreach.
Edit: It had nothing to do with being far away and everything to do with not walking face first into a rift with the goal of sacrificing himself to close it.
While it is true that he didn't siphon his power into a rift like the other Planeswalkers, the battle with Lashrac did not leave him quite as powerful as he could have been. Due to Lashrac owning a copy of the mask of Night (which allowed Lashrac to drain abilities at a touch), Bolas lost his ability to drive opponents insane at a touch. However, Bolas does now control the true mask of Night so there is no telling what abilities he has been able to steal. I do not believe that he was able to reclaim his original ability, though.
Of course, WotC retcons all the time, so we'll see ;P
I think Nicol Bolas' "ultimate ability" will be something like Elspath's, in that it lasts for the rest of the game.
I read someone speculate it could be "target player/opponent discards their hand and skips their draw step for the rest of the game." I think that would be pretty awesome.
If that's too powerful, how about "target player/opponent discards their hand at the end of each turn for the rest of the game."
I don't really agree with the whole discarding you hand idea. While the Nicol card does do this, its a very weak ability for a planeswalker. Having someone discard their hand around turn 6 or 7 (regularly) and by then they will only lose 2 or 3 cards. While a discard ability would not be bad, it would only be bad if it was the ultimate that was a discard ability, it should be something far stronger than that.
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Thanks to High~Light Studios for this banner :mad1:Drakoguard, Fiery God of Dragons:mad1: My Extendo
30,000 views for this thread! Guess that this is going to be one hell of a hyped card. I really hope that it delivers and that it is actually strong and playable but balanced at the same time.
Also does anyone else think that a critical mass of planeswalkers could harm the game? Just take a look at the Fellowship deck to see what I mean.
30,000 views for this thread! Guess that this is going to be one hell of a hyped card. I really hope that it delivers and that it is actually strong and playable but balanced at the same time.
Also does anyone else think that a critical mass of planeswalkers could harm the game? Just take a look at the Fellowship deck to see what I mean.
As long as they all have a minimum cost (and Jace is already screwing with that), and not too many of them can win the game on their own even theoretically (Garruk, Chandra, Elspeth), we're good.
Oh yes, also, they always have double colour requirements. When mana fixing swings back to normal levels, it will be hard to throw into your deck scads of them willy-nilly.
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Epic banner by Erasmus of æтђєг.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
2RUB
+1 Target player sacifices a creature, return a creature from graveyard to hand
-2 Target player loses 5 life, you gain 5 life
-3 Target player discards 3 cards, you draw 3 cards
i actually didnt monkey with the numbers after changing it up, but it's probably better off as a -3
RRBUU-----mana cost is focused towards edges because the return of G and W in conflux should diminish blacks power
Nicol Bolas, Plainswalker
loyalty 1
+1:target player sacrifices a creature,return target creature from your graveyard to your hand
-2:gain 5 life, target player loses 5 life
-3:target player discards 3 cards, draw 3 cards
I don't mean to be snide, but seriously. That's not even -close- to the realm of playable. It'd either require the Planeswalker to be costed out of the realm of deck-building, or it would be too broken to see print.
Compare that to Jace, which has -1 to draw a card or +2 for -all players- to draw a card.
+2: Destroy Creature + more stuff isn't in line with that level of power. MAYBE it'd be a secondary ability, at -2 or -3, but that -definately- is not your loyalty gain ability.
You also won't see mana costs in there because a) that's not how planeswalkers work, and b) even if they decided to explore that design space, they have to be concerned with the text space on the card.
Forcing Discard isn't likely to be the +1 ability because of Lilliana Vess, as appropriate as it is to Nicol Bolas. What you -might- see is the ultimate forcing the discard of the opponent's entire hand. That is a little bit more in line with how planeswalkers work.
+1 return target creature in your graveyard to your hand
-1 remove all graveyards from the game, draw a card
-7 search your opponents library for 10 cards and remove them from the game
4 loyalty
what does evry1 think of that? it makes sinc that the - ability will be his old PT. and we know that he will be grixis because of the ultimatum picture. i think that this holds him true to the shard without sacrificing power and at the same time not making him toooooo overpowered
I agree with most of your points. However its not impossible to coceive some things we haven't seen before on bolas both because of his character and also his possible mana cost. A planeswalker costing 3 colors has never been made and can set a precedent for more powerful abilities because of its difficult casting cost. something like +1: draw a card seems very powerful because of its comparison to Jace, however at 5 mana with 3 colors involved, its actually kind of underwhelming. It'll be interesting to see to say the least.
all the planeswalkers have at the moment abilities that can be activated no matter what so something along the lines of (+1 Destroy target creature) would not exist, due to the fact that if there's no target you can't use the ability.
I believe nicole bolas will be something like this
2RUB
+1: Target player reveals 3 cards. Choose one of them. That player discards that card.
-2: Target player discards 2 cards at random.
-5: Name a color. Target player discards all cards of the chosen color.
starts at 4
And if you have no creature card in your graveyard? The +1 ability needs to be something you can pull off every turn. It would be an intresting twist to do something like this but instead make it a +2.
Mogg Fanatic.Deck
Actually why it wont happen is mulldrifter and shriekmaw are BOTH in his colors.
Evok.Dec ftw.
Here is what I think he would be.
+1 Sacrifice a creature you control, draw a two cards.
-5 Target player discards their hand.
-20 Target player loses the game.
Starts at 1.
Bolas would have little loyality for a weak PW like you so he would start at 1.
Also in order for him to gain loyality for you, you would have to show loyality for him by sacrificing your creatures. His minus five ability is a reflection of his old card ability. And as for his minus twenty... come on... this is Bolas were talking about...
-What Guild are you?-
Nicol Bolas isn't going to be the uberstrong old-school power planeswalker, due to the events that made planeswalkers no longer uberstrong old-school powerful.
Also, this card is unplayable. Any plainswalker that can be instantly countered by a Shock is probably not going to see play in any environment including casual.
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Planeswalker
Planeswalk (this card may be put into play at any time you want, and from where you want, even if it isn't in your deck at the beginning of the game)
Flying, Fear, Haste
1/1
Above Poster wins the thread.
How about he comes into play with three loyalty counters instead of 1. Also, Bolas planeswalked to a faraway place so that his spark wouldn't be affected by the mending. So he is still the uber powerful, old school PW that he always was.
-What Guild are you?-
really?? a planeswalker that is arguably the strongest ever (next to karn and urza) is a 1/1. come on dude. its a cool idea but i think you got the fundamentals of what PWs are. its more like add 3 to that cost and 5 to teh power and the toughness. that is IF its a creature. most likely it will be an actual PW and it will be extremely powerful. think of it this way. wizards made all teh planeswalkers huge parts of teh story, so it would never make since for them to suck or be week. they want to see their creation being played in every format. so he is going to be as close to broken as they can get him without making him goyf 2.0.
you do have a point about his strength. but i think that this version of teh walker is going in the wrong direction. when he comes back he will be asserting his power, killing things and making his presence known. so i really think that he will have hand hate/creature hate + graveyard hate + library manipulation (something like remove a bunch of cards in their library from teh game or play several of their cards with no cost or maybe even super bribery) the only reason that i am leaning a lil more towards removing things instead of free casting or stealing is that he is powerful by himself and doesnt need other people stuff.
I hate to point this out, but according to the book Bolas walked out of those events stronger than ever and having annihilated Kamigawa, or at least Nightsreach.
Edit: It had nothing to do with being far away and everything to do with not walking face first into a rift with the goal of sacrificing himself to close it.
While it is true that he didn't siphon his power into a rift like the other Planeswalkers, the battle with Lashrac did not leave him quite as powerful as he could have been. Due to Lashrac owning a copy of the mask of Night (which allowed Lashrac to drain abilities at a touch), Bolas lost his ability to drive opponents insane at a touch. However, Bolas does now control the true mask of Night so there is no telling what abilities he has been able to steal. I do not believe that he was able to reclaim his original ability, though.
Of course, WotC retcons all the time, so we'll see ;P
I read someone speculate it could be "target player/opponent discards their hand and skips their draw step for the rest of the game." I think that would be pretty awesome.
If that's too powerful, how about "target player/opponent discards their hand at the end of each turn for the rest of the game."
Thanks to High~Light Studios for this banner
:mad1:Drakoguard, Fiery God of Dragons:mad1:
My Extendo
Also does anyone else think that a critical mass of planeswalkers could harm the game? Just take a look at the Fellowship deck to see what I mean.
As long as they all have a minimum cost (and Jace is already screwing with that), and not too many of them can win the game on their own even theoretically (Garruk, Chandra, Elspeth), we're good.
Oh yes, also, they always have double colour requirements. When mana fixing swings back to normal levels, it will be hard to throw into your deck scads of them willy-nilly.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
+1 Target player sacifices a creature, return a creature from graveyard to hand
-2 Target player loses 5 life, you gain 5 life
-3 Target player discards 3 cards, you draw 3 cards
<2>
well you get the idea
+1 Return a creature in your graveyard to your hand. Draw a card.
-2 Return target creature from your graveyard to play, that creature gains haste until end of turn. Remove it from the game at end of turn.
-6 Destroy all artifacts, creatures, and lands from the game, they may not be regenerated. This ability may not be countered by spells or abilities.
Loyalty 3.