I'm not sure if this belongs in speculation, but I think it might. Instead speculation on what will happen, it's speculation on why something didn't happen...
I've read several articles of Maro's where he talks about interblock design. The idea is that one year's block meshes well with the next year's block and the previous years block.
So I've been wondering why Alara is completley devoid of merfolk, kithkin, faeries, treefolk, and giants. Elves, goblins, and elementals don't seem to be going away.
For the sake of my wondering, I'm working with the idea that the Lorwyn mini-block, and the Shadomoor mini-block are really one mega block in two halves. Mainly because they rotate together. Yes, the hybrid theme of Shadowmoor works great with the tri-color theme of Alara, but when Alara rotates in, over half the lorwyn tibal stuff will be unable to combine with the new block. It just seems odd.
Other than nostolgia reasons, Time Spiral included members of all the Lorwyn tribes so that parts of the one block would easily mix with the next. So why not Alara? Its not like they couldn't fit. Savage kithkin could have prowled the jungles of Naya. The brainiac merfolk of Esper could easily have been merfolk. A noble giant or two could easily have been at home in Bant.
I'm not thinking they should have been there in massive numbers (Time Spiral diddn't) and it's a good thing that humans are back. It's just odd that there aren't any representatives at all.
I think it had mostly to do with flavor. Keep in mind there were 5 different design teams for Alara, and they wanted to put a greater emphasis on world building then sticking to the tenative rules of interblock design. I would consider shadowmoor to more apropriately be the seqway between alara instead of clumping the two blocks together in that respect.
the interblock design isn't at all apart of Lorwyn block, it's mixed with shadowmoor block, as lorwyn block was intertwined with the shadowmoor block, however they were called a "MEGA BLOCK" they were in fact two seperate blocks with interblock design, that's why shadowmoor and
eventide had Merfolk, Faeries, treefolk, Giants, Elves, Kithkin, Goblins, and the other ones, however thier colors were switched around. the interblock design was based upon those small tidbits, of which they were falling away from the tribal types and into color matters, of which Alara Is in fact a color matters, (however it's a tri-color matters with 5 seperate Themes, due to each shard) and whatnot. goblins, elves and Elementals however Are Magic UNIVERSAL creatures. so they wont really be leaving unless it's for a general hiatus (whereas they will be replaced with other Iconic Creatures, such as Dwarves, and other guys)
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there are rogues and shamans and warriors aplenty in Alara, and a few elves and goblins I know, and a few elementals too I think? There's SOME tribal linkage, just not for all tribes and in small quantities.
Alara isn't following Lorwyn so it's not going to have all the same tribes.Their is no interblock connection to it because of Shadowmoor.Shadowmoor dosen't need Lorwyn to play.
It's like your wondering why their isn't any graveyard interblock in Mirrodin from Oddessy and just treating Onslaught like it was and add-on to Oddessy.
I know their wasn't real interblock back then like their doing now,but your treating Shadowmoor like its was just an add-on to Lorwyn when thats clearly not the case.
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Orb Results for the sake of cross blocks:
Elemental: 10
Goblin: 9
Cat: 3
Elf: 9
Although all of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor's races didn't make it, it appears a few races actually did get sent to Alara, so I am not noticing a lack of inter-block synergy
The problem is that those sets were never in the same standard environment. Lorwyn is part of the same standard environment as Alara. If interblock connectivity is going to mean anything than the connections have to spread across standard as a minimum. Also considering the fact that Lorwyn and Shadowmoor were both played in the same block constructed it's much more correct to think of them together than as separate entities.
Interblock synergy doesn't matter too much, maybe they thought faeries were too good or lorwyn block standard was too good, and didn't want to boost it up
Interblock synergy doesn't matter too much, maybe they thought faeries were too good or lorwyn block standard was too good, and didn't want to boost it up
Alara was designed and developed about a year before the first Faerie decks won the first tournaments.
Regarding the inter-block design, I also agree that this lack of Lorwyn races in Alara is disappointing. Even though Shadowmoor makes the bridge between LOR and ALA, mixing multicolor with tribal, I expected to see at least two or three members from each race in ALA.
As far as I can see, it wouldn't be much of a stretch, from the flavor standpoint...
An Artifact Creature - Merfolk Rogue? Awesome!
A hungry feral Giant with Devour? Yay!
A noble fierce kithkin paladin? That's how you should be, Gaddock!
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lorwyn interacts with shadowmoor, shadowmoor interacts with alara, alara will interact with the next block. there would be no point in making every set inter-block related, cause then we'd get the same set, after set, after set. you need variety. that's what magic is about. it's all about the infinite deck possibilities. they're just making it so that each block interacts with the previous one to an extent. no 2 blocks before, or ahead.
As has been stated I think this set is trying to be conected to shadowmoor more then lorwyn, with a strong color matters theme, and multiple gold cards to support each hybrid pair. The only real suprise is that merfolk and kithkin didn't show up because it seemed to me that wizards wanted them to be the non-human races for blue and white (esp. kithkin).
So it wouldn't suprise me if they have a heavy 11th presence, but I think wizards is worried of us getting sick of tribal, if they print too many new tribal cards then standard really doesn't change much.
As has been stated I think this set is trying to be conected to shadowmoor more then lorwyn, with a strong color matters theme, and multiple gold cards to support each hybrid pair. The only real suprise is that merfolk and kithkin didn't show up because it seemed to me that wizards wanted them to be the non-human races for blue and white (esp. kithkin).
So it wouldn't suprise me if they have a heavy 11th presence, but I think wizards is worried of us getting sick of tribal, if they print too many new tribal cards then standard really doesn't change much.
I think that's how it works. I guess wizards doesn't see Lorwyn and Alara as actually connected for the interblock theory.
Maybe the original plan was to do a Tribal year, then a Hybrid year, but that plan was condensed down to one megablock for the year.
I'm not questioning why there's a lack of tribal stuff in Alara for the Lorwyn tribes. I'm not expecting something that gives bonuses to kithkin, treefolk, or whatever (although another knight themed card might make sense.) It just seems odd that there are no representatives of those races at all.
Multicolored cards in Time Spiral Block: 41
Multicolored cards in Lorwyn miniblock: 8
So somehow those 8 cards are supposed to represent the interblock conection between the Shadowmoor miniblock's color mater theme and Lorwyn huh? Seems to me that Shadowmoor miniblock had more connection to Time Spiral block than Lorwyn miniblock is going to to Shards. I think that is what people are objecting to.
There is no interblock synergy issue here unless you exclude class types. I think out of the 10, assassin was the only one to miss inclusion. Those plus elves, goblins, and elementals makes 12 tribes that crossed over.
Here's your nice list of the tribes that made it into Alara. 12/18 Just because a tribe isn't really constructed viable doesn't remove it from existance...
Archer-4
Cleric-4
Druid-8
Elemental-10
Elf-9
Goblin-9
Knight-11
Rogue-4
Shaman-9
Soldier-10
Warrior-12
Wizard-19
Also, Shadowmoor isn't really multicolor in any real sense. It's really more color matters. So, "whenever you play a green spell" How many green spells were in Lorwyn?
Just notice one thing: we were talking about Lorwyn, not Morningtide.
Sure, 4 archers, 8 druids and 19 wizards is a lot of 'class' comparing to Shadowmoor. But the races are off...
As far as I'm concerned, my Merrow Commerce or Scion of Oona ignores all SoA set, and I don't think that's a good thing to do, when you are promoting the so-called 'interblock design'.
Sure, Alara has warriors, wizards and druids. But my Merfolk deck, or Kithkin deck (which were marketed by WotC like less then a year ago) remains pretty much the same (except maybe changing my Ring of Oblivion for a different white removal that might appear
I'm not sure I got the message right. It's 6am here and I'm a li'l drunk. But I guess you get the point...
PS: I guess Shadowmoor theme was not multicolor, but rather Hybrid an it's implications. TS had 41 gold card... but how many colored cards? And how does this colored cards interact with Shadowmoor 'color matters' cards (Drove of Elves for instance, counts your saprolings...).
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I can understand about the ones that got left out, but it's not like you can cram every single theme of the prior/next block in. It's even harder when you're talking tribal. Then, you're taking a mostly flavor thing and making it into a linear mechanic.
I'm sure there will probably be nice cards for decks like kithkin and merfolk, too, though. There won't be any new creatures, but we'll be getting new countermagic. There will probably be new mill spells, too. There could even be something that helps with tapping/untapping. If there's an exalted enchantment, it could certainly be good in kithkin. That would help a recovery from a board sweeper a bit and reduce overextending. There will probably be some nice white removal, too. White could even possibly expand on that additional combat phase mechanic it got to taste in the last block. Afterall, kithkin exist to attack. It's a bit too early to say that there's no synergy coming.
@Elves, Goblins, Elementals: That has really nothing to do with trying to create interblock synergy. Those races are just standard occurences.
One might say that the gold cards are also standard occurrences that have nothing to do with Shadowmoor. But they still manage to interact. Good inter-block design doesn't leap out at you and say "Hey! Look at me! You should play me in your Lorwyn deck and nowhere else!" It should be natural, and there shouldn't be any more of it than is needed.
Plus, the Lorwyn races are only a small part of the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block. As previously mentioned, Shadowmoor's colour theme is very well supported, and also all of Morningtide's classes are represented. They don't have to take the obvious route all the time, and just because they're not doesn't mean they're not taking a less obvious route.
If Caldera Hellion was a carnivorous Giant, would it be so much of a stretch? Wouldn't it still serve its purpose in Alara and in addition be a spell that somehow profits from Lorwyn?
Fact is: Featuring creature types that appear in 90% of the blocks is no art. Featuring colors is no art (you can put Shadowmoor next to Kamigawa and you get some synergy out of it).
Abandoning the themes that really need the support (i.e. the non-traditional races of Lorwyn) before they leave standard is a let-down.
That's exactly what I meant, except that it's better-written.
Thats why I'm disappointed with Alara creature types...
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Think about it this way, If Caldera Hellion was a Elemental, for example, they would need to think about all the benefits it gets from Lorwyn block, and gimp it. What if the hellion now was an elemental? It could benefit from being out turn 3-4 via Soulstoke, Banneret, or smokebraider, being a tutorable one- of via Harbinger, being recurable via Horde of Notions, being Champonable then reused, and some other stuff that isn't too relevant. It would be broken as hell in its current state if it was an elemental. Ofc, it wouldn't be disastrous as a Giant just because Giants need a Tarmogoyf to become playable.
If Caldera Hellion was a carnivorous Giant, would it be so much of a stretch? Wouldn't it still serve its purpose in Alara and in addition be a spell that somehow profits from Lorwyn?
I don't know. What's its purpose? Maybe it was concepted after creative decided there were no giants in Alara for some reason.
Why not Alara? Because those "tribes" were horribly done and insanely stupid.
Every last one of them was a great idea that existed in smaller amounts throughout the entire game and Lorwyn just overdid them. They took great ideas and stretched them so thin that they came up with boring, over/underpowered tribes.
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I've read several articles of Maro's where he talks about interblock design. The idea is that one year's block meshes well with the next year's block and the previous years block.
So I've been wondering why Alara is completley devoid of merfolk, kithkin, faeries, treefolk, and giants. Elves, goblins, and elementals don't seem to be going away.
For the sake of my wondering, I'm working with the idea that the Lorwyn mini-block, and the Shadomoor mini-block are really one mega block in two halves. Mainly because they rotate together. Yes, the hybrid theme of Shadowmoor works great with the tri-color theme of Alara, but when Alara rotates in, over half the lorwyn tibal stuff will be unable to combine with the new block. It just seems odd.
Other than nostolgia reasons, Time Spiral included members of all the Lorwyn tribes so that parts of the one block would easily mix with the next. So why not Alara? Its not like they couldn't fit. Savage kithkin could have prowled the jungles of Naya. The brainiac merfolk of Esper could easily have been merfolk. A noble giant or two could easily have been at home in Bant.
I'm not thinking they should have been there in massive numbers (Time Spiral diddn't) and it's a good thing that humans are back. It's just odd that there aren't any representatives at all.
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eventide had Merfolk, Faeries, treefolk, Giants, Elves, Kithkin, Goblins, and the other ones, however thier colors were switched around. the interblock design was based upon those small tidbits, of which they were falling away from the tribal types and into color matters, of which Alara Is in fact a color matters, (however it's a tri-color matters with 5 seperate Themes, due to each shard) and whatnot. goblins, elves and Elementals however Are Magic UNIVERSAL creatures. so they wont really be leaving unless it's for a general hiatus (whereas they will be replaced with other Iconic Creatures, such as Dwarves, and other guys)
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It's like your wondering why their isn't any graveyard interblock in Mirrodin from Oddessy and just treating Onslaught like it was and add-on to Oddessy.
I know their wasn't real interblock back then like their doing now,but your treating Shadowmoor like its was just an add-on to Lorwyn when thats clearly not the case.
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Elemental: 10
Goblin: 9
Cat: 3
Elf: 9
Although all of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor's races didn't make it, it appears a few races actually did get sent to Alara, so I am not noticing a lack of inter-block synergy
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Alara was designed and developed about a year before the first Faerie decks won the first tournaments.
Regarding the inter-block design, I also agree that this lack of Lorwyn races in Alara is disappointing. Even though Shadowmoor makes the bridge between LOR and ALA, mixing multicolor with tribal, I expected to see at least two or three members from each race in ALA.
As far as I can see, it wouldn't be much of a stretch, from the flavor standpoint...
An Artifact Creature - Merfolk Rogue? Awesome!
A hungry feral Giant with Devour? Yay!
A noble fierce kithkin paladin? That's how you should be, Gaddock!
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So it wouldn't suprise me if they have a heavy 11th presence, but I think wizards is worried of us getting sick of tribal, if they print too many new tribal cards then standard really doesn't change much.
I think that's how it works. I guess wizards doesn't see Lorwyn and Alara as actually connected for the interblock theory.
Maybe the original plan was to do a Tribal year, then a Hybrid year, but that plan was condensed down to one megablock for the year.
I'm not questioning why there's a lack of tribal stuff in Alara for the Lorwyn tribes. I'm not expecting something that gives bonuses to kithkin, treefolk, or whatever (although another knight themed card might make sense.) It just seems odd that there are no representatives of those races at all.
Multicolored cards in Time Spiral Block: 41
Multicolored cards in Lorwyn miniblock: 8
So somehow those 8 cards are supposed to represent the interblock conection between the Shadowmoor miniblock's color mater theme and Lorwyn huh? Seems to me that Shadowmoor miniblock had more connection to Time Spiral block than Lorwyn miniblock is going to to Shards. I think that is what people are objecting to.
Here's your nice list of the tribes that made it into Alara. 12/18 Just because a tribe isn't really constructed viable doesn't remove it from existance...
Archer-4
Cleric-4
Druid-8
Elemental-10
Elf-9
Goblin-9
Knight-11
Rogue-4
Shaman-9
Soldier-10
Warrior-12
Wizard-19
Also, Shadowmoor isn't really multicolor in any real sense. It's really more color matters. So, "whenever you play a green spell" How many green spells were in Lorwyn?
Sure, 4 archers, 8 druids and 19 wizards is a lot of 'class' comparing to Shadowmoor. But the races are off...
As far as I'm concerned, my Merrow Commerce or Scion of Oona ignores all SoA set, and I don't think that's a good thing to do, when you are promoting the so-called 'interblock design'.
Sure, Alara has warriors, wizards and druids. But my Merfolk deck, or Kithkin deck (which were marketed by WotC like less then a year ago) remains pretty much the same (except maybe changing my Ring of Oblivion for a different white removal that might appear
I'm not sure I got the message right. It's 6am here and I'm a li'l drunk. But I guess you get the point...
PS: I guess Shadowmoor theme was not multicolor, but rather Hybrid an it's implications. TS had 41 gold card... but how many colored cards? And how does this colored cards interact with Shadowmoor 'color matters' cards (Drove of Elves for instance, counts your saprolings...).
I'm sure there will probably be nice cards for decks like kithkin and merfolk, too, though. There won't be any new creatures, but we'll be getting new countermagic. There will probably be new mill spells, too. There could even be something that helps with tapping/untapping. If there's an exalted enchantment, it could certainly be good in kithkin. That would help a recovery from a board sweeper a bit and reduce overextending. There will probably be some nice white removal, too. White could even possibly expand on that additional combat phase mechanic it got to taste in the last block. Afterall, kithkin exist to attack. It's a bit too early to say that there's no synergy coming.
so why bother
One might say that the gold cards are also standard occurrences that have nothing to do with Shadowmoor. But they still manage to interact. Good inter-block design doesn't leap out at you and say "Hey! Look at me! You should play me in your Lorwyn deck and nowhere else!" It should be natural, and there shouldn't be any more of it than is needed.
Plus, the Lorwyn races are only a small part of the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block. As previously mentioned, Shadowmoor's colour theme is very well supported, and also all of Morningtide's classes are represented. They don't have to take the obvious route all the time, and just because they're not doesn't mean they're not taking a less obvious route.
That's exactly what I meant, except that it's better-written.
Thats why I'm disappointed with Alara creature types...
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For completely different reasons! Had Alara a different theme there'd be no Shadowmoor synergy.
I don't know. What's its purpose? Maybe it was concepted after creative decided there were no giants in Alara for some reason.
It doesn't have to be! Why are you expecting art?
No you can't. Shadowmoor mechanics play very weakly with monochromatic sets like Kamigawa. They may work, but they aren't synergous.
1. The block is not yet finished
2. It doesn't negate the other examples of interblock synergy just because you don't think it's an "art".
Every last one of them was a great idea that existed in smaller amounts throughout the entire game and Lorwyn just overdid them. They took great ideas and stretched them so thin that they came up with boring, over/underpowered tribes.
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