I was looking at one of my decks earlier today and saw Death Rattle in one, then i rembered some speculation on this very webcite about shadowmor being a graveyard set... well that got me thinking..... we have a future shifted card here and it uses delve...soo? BUt my 3 main reasons that this is plausable is 1)that it is future shifted 2) that it has delve[gy corrlation] 3) it says NON GREEN CREATURE. I mean think about it! what else shares the same idea behind it?!?!? Eyeblights Ending! it says non elf creature. SO since these are tribal blocks and elves are black and green... i have been lead to beleve that not only are Elves still in Shadomor but there might be Delve in there as well..
An artist sketch already revealed that Shadowmoor will have elves, and people have been talking for a while about the ton of futureshifted graveyard cards and victorian themes.
Death Rattle has nothing to do with elves though, look at the art.
Also Shadowmoor will NOT be a tribal block. That's confirmed already.
shadowmoor is not a block, but part of the lowryn block. Maybe I just misunderstand what you mean when you wrote that and maybe you mean shadowmoor will not be a tribal set?
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shadowmoor is not a block, but part of the lowryn block. Maybe I just misunderstand what you mean when you wrote that and maybe you mean shadowmoor will not be a tribal set?
No, Shadowmoor is it's own mini-block. You're thinking of Morningtide.
Elves doesn't mean tribal. There's probably fewer blocks without elves than with.
Yes, but it was given as evidence that Death Rattle is in Shadowmoor, which isn't conclusive evidence because black and green don't show any signs of working together in Shadowmoor.
I can only think of one block without elves, and that is Kamigawa.
But, I do not understand your line of thinking- that because it says non-green, that it will be included in a set with elves?
It has already been leaked that there will be elves in shadowmoor.
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I see what he's saying though. Black and Green are traditionally enemy colours. So why does this Black kill card specifically state that it doesn't effect Green creatures? Usually it's the other way around and Black specifically targets Green (see Deathmark). What is going to happen in the future to change the relationship between these two colours?
Well co-incidentally Elves in Lorwyn are Black/Green. So was this card foreshadowing the colour of Lorwyn Elves? Or is there something else going on here?
Delve certainly is a graveyard mechanic. Street Wraith would also fit the Victorian future themes from Future Sight, so I hope he's in; they purposely held off on extensive exploration of Cycling in the Time Spiral block, and it has cool synergy with Delve.
Hmmmm... That's some good speculation. I wouldn't be surprised if shadowmoor was another graveyard block. Wizards has some favoritism toward the graveyard and "shadow" just implies black and gloomy. Of course, wizards can always surprise us by making Shadowmoor NOT black or victorian. That type of fun and unexpectedness never happens though...
I'm somewhat unexcited for the return of delve. The unsuccess of Tombstalker and company hasn't quite left my mind. It can be hard to imagine how delve may work without dredge. Of course, we can always redo Odyssey. Everyone brace yourselves for Torment 2 (that's not exactly a bad thing).
Yes, but it was given as evidence that Death Rattle is in Shadowmoor, which isn't conclusive evidence because black and green don't show any signs of working together in Shadowmoor.
Well isn't Death Rattle's non green limitation a little weird? It's plausible that black and green will be somewhat allied for Shadowmoor, to support the elf tribe in Lorwyn. And the accepted theory is that Shadowmoor will be graveyard based anyway, so this kind of fits. I don't 100% buy it, but it's a lot better than a lot of the half-baked speculation around here. And he's not arguing for tribal in Shadowmoor at all.
Well, for starters, I would argue for delve in Shadowmoor, and nothing more.
Have any of the future-shifted cards in FS seen reprints? I can think of a couple in Xth edition...
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."
Elves doesn't mean tribal. There's probably fewer blocks without elves than with.
Every block besides Odyssey and Kamigawa have elves.
If Shadowmoor is in fact graveyard based, there's a very good chance for delve. It could also very well mean the return of threshold, especially since there was 1 threshold card in timespiral block. There could possibly even be dredge, although, don't expect it to be pushed at all if it's present.
Um, Death Rattle is just a way to make green creatures (supposed to be the best) more relevant in games. I clearly remember an Ask Wizards regarding that card.
I don't know about Death Rattle being printed again, but I have an inkling that we'll see more of Delve. It's highly unlikely that it's a dud mechanic since it appear on so many cards in Future Sight.
I smell a graveyard related block in the near future, possibly Shadowmoor, but it might be the next block. Who knows with WotC...
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Um, Death Rattle is just a way to make green creatures (supposed to be the best) more relevant in games. I clearly remember an Ask Wizards regarding that card.
Would u mind finding that?
And the fact is that i was not pushing for tribal i was just saying that elves are allready that color so y not?
and of the mention of delve being used alot is not 100% true only 3 cards featured delve:death rattle, Toombstalker, and logic knot. THere are many possibilities for delve. Now the question is if delve is a reasonabe mechanic for shadomor(or any other gy set)? it has possibilitis. there are many "put X cards into target players gy/from the top of there library/search there library" that would contrubute to delve? and with some madness/discard cards.(not in shadowmor, madness) Just my ideas
Well, if shadowmoor has a graveyard theme, then I would expect delve (which I really liked with dredge) to be in Shadowmoor.
On a side note, all the people I know said that Shatterstorm and Hurkyl's Recall are evidence that artifacts wont be a major theme in any upcoming sets, because all that global board control would make artifacts too hard to play with.
So, maybe Deathrattle is evidince that green creature decks will become a major player in the days to come?
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."
i don't think there's anything to read into with non-green appearing on Death Rattle. its just a demonstration of a change of pace, which future sight was full of. Death Rattle is somewhat unique in that it can kill black creatures (very rare for black spells) but can't kill green creatures (also very rare for black spells). that alone would be justification for printing it on the future shifted card frame.
On a side note, all the people I know said that Shatterstorm and Hurkyl's Recall are evidence that artifacts wont be a major theme in any upcoming sets, because all that global board control would make artifacts too hard to play with.
Shatterstorm, Hurkyl's Recall, Aura of Silence, and a couple of other cards were put into tenth in an attempt to give colors an answer specifically to Affinity in extended.
I don't know if this is what meteo63 mentioned, but here's an Arcana about Death Rattle.
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I think Tarmogoyf will be in Shadowmoor along with other cards that have a similar mechanics just costed correctly.... unlike Mr Goyf. I also think they are going to have a lot of powerful Delve cards.
This will create an interesting interaction between the two themes that will force players to make better choices, Delve now and make my goyf type cards smaller or delve later and take advantage of my goyf type cards longer.
i don't think there's anything to read into with non-green appearing on Death Rattle. its just a demonstration of a change of pace, which future sight was full of. Death Rattle is somewhat unique in that it can kill black creatures (very rare for black spells) but can't kill green creatures (also very rare for black spells). that alone would be justification for printing it on the future shifted card frame.
The card couldn't have made it to print without a number of people working on the set reacting similarly to us - "WTFs up with this?" or "why green?"
It could have been, as you say, just to be weird and wonky for it's own sake. But the future shifted cards were intended to give usa glimpse into Magic's future. So what kind of change of pace could this represent? This card makes sense in what setting?
Clearly this isn't a hint that non green will become the standard terror! It seems to suggest a block were colour interactions are relevant. Maybe an environment which centres around green. Or this could be from a cycle like the tainted lands, one for non red, one for non blue, and one for non white. That would belong in a black heavy setting. This idea wouldn't make sense unless they actually print the cycle, though.
Anyway, there isn't enough information to determine what this might mean for the future, but it's a bizarre enough card that It's unlikely it means nothing at all.
Discuss
Also Shadowmoor will NOT be a tribal block. That's confirmed already.
You're several months late?
An artist sketch already revealed that Shadowmoor will have elves, and people have been talking for a while about the ton of futureshifted graveyard cards and victorian themes.
shadowmoor is not a block, but part of the lowryn block. Maybe I just misunderstand what you mean when you wrote that and maybe you mean shadowmoor will not be a tribal set?
Elves doesn't mean tribal. There's probably fewer blocks without elves than with.
No, Shadowmoor is it's own mini-block. You're thinking of Morningtide.
Yes, but it was given as evidence that Death Rattle is in Shadowmoor, which isn't conclusive evidence because black and green don't show any signs of working together in Shadowmoor.
But, I do not understand your line of thinking- that because it says non-green, that it will be included in a set with elves?
It has already been leaked that there will be elves in shadowmoor.
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Well co-incidentally Elves in Lorwyn are Black/Green. So was this card foreshadowing the colour of Lorwyn Elves? Or is there something else going on here?
I'm somewhat unexcited for the return of delve. The unsuccess of Tombstalker and company hasn't quite left my mind. It can be hard to imagine how delve may work without dredge. Of course, we can always redo Odyssey. Everyone brace yourselves for Torment 2 (that's not exactly a bad thing).
Well isn't Death Rattle's non green limitation a little weird? It's plausible that black and green will be somewhat allied for Shadowmoor, to support the elf tribe in Lorwyn. And the accepted theory is that Shadowmoor will be graveyard based anyway, so this kind of fits. I don't 100% buy it, but it's a lot better than a lot of the half-baked speculation around here. And he's not arguing for tribal in Shadowmoor at all.
Have any of the future-shifted cards in FS seen reprints? I can think of a couple in Xth edition...
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Every block besides Odyssey and Kamigawa have elves.
If Shadowmoor is in fact graveyard based, there's a very good chance for delve. It could also very well mean the return of threshold, especially since there was 1 threshold card in timespiral block. There could possibly even be dredge, although, don't expect it to be pushed at all if it's present.
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I smell a graveyard related block in the near future, possibly Shadowmoor, but it might be the next block. Who knows with WotC...
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Would u mind finding that?
And the fact is that i was not pushing for tribal i was just saying that elves are allready that color so y not?
and of the mention of delve being used alot is not 100% true only 3 cards featured delve:death rattle, Toombstalker, and logic knot. THere are many possibilities for delve. Now the question is if delve is a reasonabe mechanic for shadomor(or any other gy set)? it has possibilitis. there are many "put X cards into target players gy/from the top of there library/search there library" that would contrubute to delve? and with some madness/discard cards.(not in shadowmor, madness) Just my ideas
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On a side note, all the people I know said that Shatterstorm and Hurkyl's Recall are evidence that artifacts wont be a major theme in any upcoming sets, because all that global board control would make artifacts too hard to play with.
So, maybe Deathrattle is evidince that green creature decks will become a major player in the days to come?
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Shatterstorm, Hurkyl's Recall, Aura of Silence, and a couple of other cards were put into tenth in an attempt to give colors an answer specifically to Affinity in extended.
However, they could also be seen as evidence FOR artifacts in an upcoming block. What's the point of there being amazing artifact hate in a format that basically only has six playable artifacts? (Coldsteel Heart, Prismatic Lens, Phyrexian Totem, Razormane Masticore, Loxodon Warhammer, Deathrender.)
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Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
This will create an interesting interaction between the two themes that will force players to make better choices, Delve now and make my goyf type cards smaller or delve later and take advantage of my goyf type cards longer.
Just my opinion with no backup what so ever.
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The card couldn't have made it to print without a number of people working on the set reacting similarly to us - "WTFs up with this?" or "why green?"
It could have been, as you say, just to be weird and wonky for it's own sake. But the future shifted cards were intended to give usa glimpse into Magic's future. So what kind of change of pace could this represent? This card makes sense in what setting?
Clearly this isn't a hint that non green will become the standard terror! It seems to suggest a block were colour interactions are relevant. Maybe an environment which centres around green. Or this could be from a cycle like the tainted lands, one for non red, one for non blue, and one for non white. That would belong in a black heavy setting. This idea wouldn't make sense unless they actually print the cycle, though.
Anyway, there isn't enough information to determine what this might mean for the future, but it's a bizarre enough card that It's unlikely it means nothing at all.
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