And as we all know Wizards is about taking polls and making things happen based on those polls, as this is an indicator or what the general populace would like to see happen.
Wizards (like most companies) uses polls to help settle issues they are internally divided about, or to gather information about areas they don't know enough about, not to completely reverse well-thought-out decisions on a whim. The Reserve List is a great example of a policy where Wizards continues with a stance in opposition to poll results.
And since some of the guys in R&D play Dungeons and Dragons they are still there in a playgroup enforce today, I am sure of.
Obviously there are lots of people who play both; Wizards makes both games. That's completely irrelevant to the topic, though.
While there may be some "Imaginary" line that should not be crossed it could get to a point that the d20 Universe may one day make a rulebook completely based on the Magic the Gathering Universe.
This has nothing to do with a "line that shouldn't be crossed."
D&D and Magic both have semi-generic fantasy settings, each of which is heavily designed around the specific gameplay of its associated game. As a result, even though they seem similar, each setting makes opposite decisions about numerous different points. In D&D, any Wizard (or anyone, with an Amulet of the Planes) can travel between worlds (which, by the way, are finite in number and very specific in arrangement.) Many monsters (like beholders) are defined by having more distinct abilities than can fit on a Magic card. Dragons are generally unique, intelligent, and in possession of hugely diverse sorcerous abilities. Spells are divided into nine categories that don't map well onto the five colors. And so on, and so forth.
It's not a question of "when the line will be crossed" because there's no value in doing so; the concepts don't cross over meaningfully, and no increase in sales will result from cross-marketing between the two games.
It's not a question of "when the line will be crossed" because there's no value in doing so; the concepts don't cross over meaningfully, and no increase in sales will result from cross-marketing between the two games.
And it may be those very reasons why a crossover may not be of a "stand above other sets" quality. Because there is too many abilities dragons have that doesnt crossover as well as other fine tuned things. But as far as I can tell these same things occur when you read Magic the Gathering books and think how cool some of the characters portrayed in the book sound very powerful and full of magic only to see it spit out as a semi-generic 2/2 with a crap tap ability.
Dragonlance could be a fantastic set to go with if they ever did do a crossover. And there they could expand upon dragons in Magic to be much more powerful then they truely are in the Magic universe. Besides just being fat, have flying and one ability.
As it has been pointed out that Dungeons and Dragons has breathed lots of life into the game of magic the gathering... why not honor this tradition with a one shot deal?
And it may be those very reasons why a crossover may not be of a "stand above other sets" quality.
No, that's why it's not really worth doing and won't ever be done. That's really about all that there is to this issue, and nothing has changed in the 10+ years it's been brought up to suggest otherwise.
I hate DnD. I can't sit still and listen to someone's stupid descriptions and totaly random/arbitrary gamemastering- that make me sick to my stomach.
however, I belive that some magic cards are based off of DnD, like the elder dragon legends, and some of the legends cards from the set legends. So yea.
the entire set of LEGENDS was based off the designer's D&D campaign.
There we go. A magic set in Sigil and it's surrounding environs would be quite different. And very cool. (Though it has shown itself not profitible... )
yeah a set based on a huge metropolis would be quite different. I KNOW! how about if each of the planes have a two color combo. thats never been done before.:p /sarcasm
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yeah a set based on a huge metropolis would be quite different. I KNOW! how about if each of the planes have a two color combo. thats never been done before.:p /sarcasm
Sigil is nothing like an ordinary city or Ravnica for that matter, and you know it!
If they can ram L5R into D20 they could do it with Magic. That isn't the same as ramming Magic into D&D though (or vice versa)
Using D&D novels as theme for magic won't be good. I'm a huge D&D fan and a huge MTG fan, but it seriously won’t work. Plus, sounds profane. =D
But
Core D&D influences (like a block around the 8 d&d classes), art influences or even a medieval world or feudal world (naming – Homelands-like, with more European appeal) could work, maybe using the multicolor theme.
Five kings of major kingdoms fighting against each other in Rav-on-castles way. Sounds sweet, and could work.
So, not all-new stuff, but a block exploring strong medieval themes - Homelands + fallen empires + the Dark theme with Rav mechanics – cause the other 3 sets mechanic was… well… bad.
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Decks Legacy - R Burn Commander - GWU Rafiq of the Many Modern - BGW Melira Pod (with borrowed fetchlands, but still) Standard - R Blitz
The big problem is the nature of the Magic universe and the D&D universe.
While both have multiple planes and similar races and some similar ideas, D&D does not have Planeswalkers. That is the key problem. Magic is built around the concept of God-like beings know as Planeswalkers. To cross the two would require adding Planeswalkers to the D&D mythos, which begs the question "Where were they before?"
D&D has its own layout of its own Planes, which tend to contradict the Magic world.
So we have two universes with their own physics in regards to the Planes...which is the very core of the Magic Universe.
I dunno... The Forgotten Realms might just be another Plane that has not been discovered by planeswalkers... yet...
It could be that the Forgotten Realms does not use mana the same way, which would make it difficult for the planeswalkers to access.
Personally, I would love to see a D&D based Magic set... although I suspect I'd be very dissapointed with it considering that a 350 card set plus a couple of expansions would not nearly be enough to do the forgotten realms justice.
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Dwarves and gnomes should take the cool goblin jobs. Goblins have been getting too much love!
In 2nd edition AD&D's Planescape setting, there was the Planeswalker's Handbook. In 3rd edition there is a prestige class called Planeswalker if I remember correctly (I've been out of D&D for a while). There are definately planeswalkers, the term means almost the same thing, but it is easier for D&D folks to traverse the planes than it is for people in Magic.
The only way D&D could infiltrate magic is to base a set off of the 2nd edition Planescape material in some manner, because it isn't your "classic" D&D, and is all about moving around the planes. It's the only thing that would make sense that wouldn't come off as stupid.
As mentioned, D&D Planeswalkers are far more mundane than Magic Planeswalkers. Anyone in D&D can be a Planeswalker with no prior special requirement. Also, D&D has its own predesigned rigid structure of how the Planes work, which conflicts with what is set up in Magic.
I dunno... The Forgotten Realms might just be another Plane that has not been discovered by planeswalkers... yet...
It could be that the Forgotten Realms does not use mana the same way, which would make it difficult for the planeswalkers to access.
Personally, I would love to see a D&D based Magic set... although I suspect I'd be very dissapointed with it considering that a 350 card set plus a couple of expansions would not nearly be enough to do the forgotten realms justice.
Except the Forgotten Realms is still part of the D&D logic of how Planes work.
Crossovers are fun. These two entities crossed together would be alot of fun. Crossovers in other media are fun usually, but rarely canon. There is a reason for that. Two completely different universes tend not to mesh well enough to maintain cohesion when included within each others own storylines as a whole.
They could do a standalone set outside of any continuity of either D&D's mythology and Magic's Storyline, but to work it would have to be unplayable in tournament play. Storyline is very crucial to Magic. Players have access to spells which an 'Walker in the Magic universe would have access to. Constructed play is built around that logic. Planeswalkers cannot cast Magic Missile.
If they made a set it would be;
A ) A stand alone game similar to Magic and compatable rules wise to allow casual play. They would have different backs. This I could see being done.
B ) A cross-over set. A mix of Magic reprints and D&D spells and characters. This wont work since of the "Silverborderland" rule, which would interfere with the Magic cards printed iun the set. They could work around this by giving the reprints black/white borders though, and Silver to the D&D stuff.
I could see a Magic themed D20 game being released. But it won't be directly compatable with D&D.
Yea, a seperate TCG based on DnD or Forgoten realms or some such nonsense...
Wait a sec, that would open DnD to a whole new audience... I might even get into that.
Besides, Forgoten realms could easily be part of magic, the Forgoten realms series of planes could be a mega-plane, consiting of several parts in the Magic Planar universe.
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."
Yea, a seperate TCG based on DnD or Forgoten realms or some such nonsense...
Wait a sec, that would open DnD to a whole new audience... I might even get into that.
Besides, Forgoten realms could easily be part of magic, the Forgoten realms series of planes could be a mega-plane, consiting of several parts in the Magic Planar universe.
TSR tried this, twice, in the mid-90s
Spellfire was based of of D&D and released in '94, and Blood Wars Card Game was based specifically on the Planescape Setting and released in '95.
But didnt they reduce the powers of planeswalkers? Also D&D has an Epic Level to the classes... whats to say they couldnt have Planeswalker go Epic?
They're completely unrelated concepts. In Magic, only special people with a specific spark can walk the planes; in D&D, anyone can using spells or artifacts. They also have completely incompatible cosmologies.
Never will there be the ability to create a card that can full portay a creature or Epic Level wizard with Planartransportation and all of thier stats onto a Magic card... so much is missing. But thats not to say a brand might get the tagline and chance at printing.
EDIT: OKAY?
EDIT 2: Dragonlance would be a good place to start... lots of flavor there. ok?
EDIT 3: Nothing is truly off limits. Things that seem forbidden today might be normal tomorrow.
I'm with the rest of the nay-sayers here. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love D&D, but cramming another universe into Magic just feels wrong. One of the main reasons I love magic is because of the setting(s). The mana, the goblins, the plainswalkers and mana-firing laser guns. Trying to fit Ebberon or Forgotten Realms (god forbid Drizz't) into the game just feels fake and hollow.
It's this reason I'd love to see an official Magic D20 expansion. I've started my own little one, based on basic D&D rules with alot of ducttape and prayers, but I'd much prefer to see a book (or series of books) with some official rules laid out. It's alot of work to get something good going that feels more like a magic world than like a D&D world, and it tends to involve making up stats for highly recognizable creatures (Everyone cowers when Psychatog pops out in the middle of an encounter) and visiting all the most recognizable places. It would be much better to see some rule conversions that make it feel more like magic.
The biggest problem would probably be manifesting Mana into D20 terms. I still haven't really found a way to do that yet, and it bugs me a little, because it's one of the cornerstones of magic. The colors also represent a problem. Do the players get colors? What effects do they have on the game? etc. A real, official mock up would explain alot, and probably be alot of fun.
The biggest problem I see with this is the sheer scope of it all. Can you imagine trying to fit arcane magic, divine magic, shadow magic, pact magic, truename magic, psionics, node magic, combat stances, and incarnum all into five colors in one block?
And then inevitably fans would create their own sets based on third-party supplements, like Iron Kingdoms, DragonMech, or The Book of Erotic Fantasy :o.
Magic already has most of the core D&D races and classes as creature types, and personally I'm not missing Bard, Gnome or Drow at all. I'm pretty sure we can even squeeze in Beholders as Eyes. Possibly give them protection from sorceries and instants to mimic the anti-magic eye?
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In memory of Richie Proffitt
aka PolarBearGod
(1978-2008)
Sign of the times is right now for the event when you will see Planeswalker D20. Expect a full delve into the Magic the Gathering rules and regulations. Do not expect there to be a bridge between the Magic the Gathering cards and Dungeons and Dragons. Not for at least a long time to come, because as we all know making acceptance to radical changes takes time.
Planeswalkers are 'Harbingers' to the RPG end of Magic the Gathering. Each planeswalker will define a new aspect to the D20 game with thier new abilities... might we expect a recrossover with a Planeswalker only format in Magic to simulate a Planeswar? Because in a D20 game you pretty much would be pitting Planeswalker vs. Planeswalker or Planeswalker vs. High Level Wizard & / or Artificer & / or Psionic player in a world full of enchantments, artifacts, sorcery spells, instance spells, the five Mana Lands, power to draw mana to cast those magic things, creatures that are summoned to do 'thy bidding' in this personal duels.
Where a 2/2 bear is a d20 bear with full d20 stats, and if enchanted becomes different and magical. This game will be different than D&D with clear objectives and reasons why you would want a creature to do your damage against a Planeswalker and bonuses to Planeswalkers that are able to destroy another Planeswalker that are set apart from gaining bonuses from destroying simple or magical creatures, whatever they may be.
That's also how the Beholder got transferred into Magic: Beholders are solitary creatures, hence the Eye attacked alone.
Please... we are talking about crossing-over a d20/RPG Dungeons and Dragons "Beholder" over to a 'gross' underrepresentation short of flavor. Nothing more nothing less, so a MTG DnD crossover should have by definition to be a card in Magic the Gathering these few things:
Flying
Tribal name - Beholder
High Mana cost because the are powerful.
Make it a rare because they kill each other on sight, so they tend to be powerful.
Black mana because its clearly evil.
A 3/3 represents the physical equivalation if not more a 4/4 IMBE.
A disintegration ray for the main eye.
Incorrect data from a rumor that one of the eye stocks has disintegration while only the main eye has that ability.
EDIT: But other cards would show a Behold using the main eye to disintegrate a creature with a flavor text being synical of your apparent lack of information.
"Eye of the Beholder" 2B
Instant
Destroy target non-Beholder it can't be regenerated.
"Often rumors state a form of truth we often use to our advantage. Either way they are weak in believing thier ideas are always right." Lord MankaniK
Picture: Beholder flying above a dark pit destroying with main eye a Drow.
Still I don't see a DnD-Set for Magic, because what works good for single cards doesn't work for a full set - and in the end the conversion would change the identity of the popular DnD-Entities to something else - resulting in a likely let-down for that part of the audience that is the prime target of an cross-over.
Something else like what to expect with a generalized let down? Well yeah, I hate magic for ruining DnD too... but the bridge is made lets cross it...
And at that point the risk-reward-relation points definitely towards risk.
But a single Magic-Legend/Planeswalker inspired by a crowd favourite from DnD? A new creature type based on Troglodytes? That's something I could buy, especially when we know nothing about the next block - nevertheless it's baseless right now.
greetings
Z
A risk Wizards of the Coast will gamble to keep quarterly errnings strong. I am for it as is a dark sect sworn to... nm. Baseless is right brudda... until you crack open a pack. Oh so you know that a crossover of an interesting kind can and does happen and would pull DnD players over if a free booster was throw into large packs of DnD mini Boosters.*(very marginal cost increase to the DnD mini booster box)
Pirates a WizKid game... a collectible card ship game (Also has an online exact same as version BTW) started out being a strategy game with cardboard ships that had crew and then became an online sensation for a couple years, now the movie Pirates of the Carribean have inspired a set thats produced to play exactly like Pirates CSG and is also made by WizKids.
Crossovers are happening all the time and constitutes bringing in fresh blood to the game, new life and a sense of community. I would think it more a welcomed unity than a spiteful rant?
Lets ban Dungeons and Dragons creatures from Magic! Boycott all DnD related Magic Cards... oh wait! We cant because Lorwyn packs way too many of them... I'd have to quit magic this year and wait it out! Drat!
Lets ban Dungeons and Dragons creatures from Magic! Boycott all DnD related Magic Cards... oh wait! We cant because Lorwyn packs way too many of them... I'd have to quit magic this year and wait it out! Drat!
The OP is talking about trademark D&D characters like Drizzt. As mentioned previously the fact that D&D is subtly being ripped off left and right is less reason for them to bother with an "official" crossover.
A D20 system that involved you using actual magic decks for duels would be hilarious.
The OP is talking about trademark D&D characters like Drizzt. As mentioned previously the fact that D&D is subtly being ripped off left and right is less reason for them to bother with an "official" crossover.
A D20 system that involved you using actual magic decks for duels would be hilarious.
I know about the "trademark D&D characters" and I'm here to let people know that not always does wizards do what you expect. Just because a D&D set might come out with the official blessings of D&D players and Magic the gathering players does it mean they are going to personafy a card that was a "trademark D&D character" ... rather I would expect them to devise thier own "trademark NEW D&D characters" and new campaign settings. Because as we all know just the crossover alone will stur up the hornets nest enough without having to deal with mister ninny-pants who is upset that a "trademark D&D character" doesnt have fireball on his abilities for the card thats creating him.
Has anyone ever thought that a group of magic cards could be created that would not fall into being tournament legal, doesnt fall into an un-set, but follows the rules of Magic the Gathering to the letter?
So... magic players cant be upset that a set designed to entice DnD players to get into magic ruined the tournament scene. But as most will point out that any magic card released was meant to be played with in Legacy format because the portal sets were included eventually into Magic the Gathering.
Do not think that a tournament scene can totally dominate how one is to think of this game... had a time traveler went back to the year 1999 and told everyone that Magic the Gathering would go 4 sets a year not including base sets, yeah youll see they will not stop the 4 sets a year because of a base set year, you probably would have laughed and said, "BULL."
Well we are now pushing 4 sets a year... and a faceless corporation is now at the helms of this ship guided by greed. Expect the marketing franchising to begin... sloooowly, as second in command has been warning them. (a.k.a. MaRo)
Has anyone ever thought that a group of magic cards could be created that would not fall into being tournament legal, doesnt fall into an un-set, but follows the rules of Magic the Gathering to the letter?
You're just grasping at straws here, proposing things that make no sense and which no one in their right mind would want just in order to prove that a D&D set "could" happen.
Such a set is simply not on the table. There are lots of problems with the idea and no benefits. It will never happen, not now and not at any point before the end of either game. Saying that it will is essentially like saying "oh, well, Star Trek and Star Wars could crossover!" -- it's something that anyone who's really familiar with both knows is quite unlikely and not particularly desirable to begin with.
You're just grasping at straws here, proposing things that make no sense and which no one in their right mind would want just in order to prove that a D&D set "could" happen.
and that is why this place is called The Rumor Mill > Speculation > D&D-themed set after 'Doughnut'?
we all are guilty of doing this here... what was your point again?
There isnt a lot of problems with with (In fact it would be entirely too easy to do, p-sha saying that it cant be done dnd or magic standards are too high for it to be done, any card can represent a dungeons and dragons monster but not every card will accurately portray a d20 creature and its this difference every mind wants to focus on.) and there is lots of benefits (A crossover of this proportion might attract new Magic players or new DnD players also more d20 exploration)... oh you mean the problem that in your eyes and a few other people whom believe thier opinion in matters of Magic and Dungeons and Dragons is always right and final... then yeah you go Char you tha man with the polarizing plan!
and that is why this place is called The Rumor Mill > Speculation > D&D-themed set after 'Doughnut'?
Speculation is not a place for nonsense and theories with no evidence; it is a place to begin discussing possible theories about future Magic sets which are backed up by some evidence but which are not at the level of actual rumors. Bad theories with no evidence generally just make the forum harder to read and less useful at accurately predicting the content of future sets.
Speculation is not a place for nonsense and theories with no evidence; it is a place to begin discussing possible theories about future Magic sets which are backed up by some evidence but which are not at the level of actual rumors. Bad theories with no evidence generally just make the forum harder to read and less useful at accurately predicting the content of future sets.
God I want to say QFT but I am better than that you deserve a proper rebuttal to your opinion, so here goes:
This is a place for nonsense and theories with no evidence because that is what sheer speculation "IS" so quit acting like it's not, show us you passed high school, ok? Evidence is not necessary here since this whole speculation is over a 2bit idea that doesnt fit into a 32bit game, yeah I agree not lots will carry over, but because you and a meer handful think its not worthy doesnt constitute THAT ; that IS what wizards might never actually do later, as the saying Mark Rosewater coined in an ask wizards comment:
"Nothing is truly off limits. Things that seem forbidden today might be normal tomorrow."
And planeswalkers used to be a supposed area that was off-limits, more like it was off-limits in a select fews magic players minds... kinda like now with this DnD debate, BUT LOOK planeswalkers are now full BLOWN CARDS! It's funny how a draft table might have a whiney 7-9 yr + player complaining the game is flavor ruined because a planeswalker shouldnt be some underpowered card that doesnt attack, while at that same drafting table a new player may think to themselves, "why is this idiot complaining so dam much?"
Bad theories with no evidence generally just make the forum harder to read and less useful at accurately predicting the content of future sets.
this comment is from me directly to you about this arrogant statement:
"Might as well delete most every post in the speculation area since most every post is baseless and a theory without direct holding a card in hand as proof thier theory is a reality. And if this fact clouds your mind too much you know you can hit the bricks and take your readings elsewhere to be intimidating because any post that begins with a fusion of Dungeons and Dragons into a Magic set is BY NO MEANS ANY FREAKING WAY CLOSE TO CALLING THIS A POST ABOUT A FUTURE SET."
Wizards (like most companies) uses polls to help settle issues they are internally divided about, or to gather information about areas they don't know enough about, not to completely reverse well-thought-out decisions on a whim. The Reserve List is a great example of a policy where Wizards continues with a stance in opposition to poll results.
Obviously there are lots of people who play both; Wizards makes both games. That's completely irrelevant to the topic, though.
This has nothing to do with a "line that shouldn't be crossed."
D&D and Magic both have semi-generic fantasy settings, each of which is heavily designed around the specific gameplay of its associated game. As a result, even though they seem similar, each setting makes opposite decisions about numerous different points. In D&D, any Wizard (or anyone, with an Amulet of the Planes) can travel between worlds (which, by the way, are finite in number and very specific in arrangement.) Many monsters (like beholders) are defined by having more distinct abilities than can fit on a Magic card. Dragons are generally unique, intelligent, and in possession of hugely diverse sorcerous abilities. Spells are divided into nine categories that don't map well onto the five colors. And so on, and so forth.
It's not a question of "when the line will be crossed" because there's no value in doing so; the concepts don't cross over meaningfully, and no increase in sales will result from cross-marketing between the two games.
And it may be those very reasons why a crossover may not be of a "stand above other sets" quality. Because there is too many abilities dragons have that doesnt crossover as well as other fine tuned things. But as far as I can tell these same things occur when you read Magic the Gathering books and think how cool some of the characters portrayed in the book sound very powerful and full of magic only to see it spit out as a semi-generic 2/2 with a crap tap ability.
Dragonlance could be a fantastic set to go with if they ever did do a crossover. And there they could expand upon dragons in Magic to be much more powerful then they truely are in the Magic universe. Besides just being fat, have flying and one ability.
As it has been pointed out that Dungeons and Dragons has breathed lots of life into the game of magic the gathering... why not honor this tradition with a one shot deal?
No, that's why it's not really worth doing and won't ever be done. That's really about all that there is to this issue, and nothing has changed in the 10+ years it's been brought up to suggest otherwise.
the entire set of LEGENDS was based off the designer's D&D campaign.
yeah a set based on a huge metropolis would be quite different. I KNOW! how about if each of the planes have a two color combo. thats never been done before.:p /sarcasm
Sigil is nothing like an ordinary city or Ravnica for that matter, and you know it!
If they can ram L5R into D20 they could do it with Magic. That isn't the same as ramming Magic into D&D though (or vice versa)
But
Core D&D influences (like a block around the 8 d&d classes), art influences or even a medieval world or feudal world (naming – Homelands-like, with more European appeal) could work, maybe using the multicolor theme.
Five kings of major kingdoms fighting against each other in Rav-on-castles way. Sounds sweet, and could work.
So, not all-new stuff, but a block exploring strong medieval themes - Homelands + fallen empires + the Dark theme with Rav mechanics – cause the other 3 sets mechanic was… well… bad.
Legacy - R Burn
Commander - GWU Rafiq of the Many
Modern - BGW Melira Pod (with borrowed fetchlands, but still)
Standard - R Blitz
I dunno... The Forgotten Realms might just be another Plane that has not been discovered by planeswalkers... yet...
It could be that the Forgotten Realms does not use mana the same way, which would make it difficult for the planeswalkers to access.
Personally, I would love to see a D&D based Magic set... although I suspect I'd be very dissapointed with it considering that a 350 card set plus a couple of expansions would not nearly be enough to do the forgotten realms justice.
As mentioned, D&D Planeswalkers are far more mundane than Magic Planeswalkers. Anyone in D&D can be a Planeswalker with no prior special requirement. Also, D&D has its own predesigned rigid structure of how the Planes work, which conflicts with what is set up in Magic.
Except the Forgotten Realms is still part of the D&D logic of how Planes work.
Crossovers are fun. These two entities crossed together would be alot of fun. Crossovers in other media are fun usually, but rarely canon. There is a reason for that. Two completely different universes tend not to mesh well enough to maintain cohesion when included within each others own storylines as a whole.
They could do a standalone set outside of any continuity of either D&D's mythology and Magic's Storyline, but to work it would have to be unplayable in tournament play. Storyline is very crucial to Magic. Players have access to spells which an 'Walker in the Magic universe would have access to. Constructed play is built around that logic. Planeswalkers cannot cast Magic Missile.
If they made a set it would be;
A ) A stand alone game similar to Magic and compatable rules wise to allow casual play. They would have different backs. This I could see being done.
B ) A cross-over set. A mix of Magic reprints and D&D spells and characters. This wont work since of the "Silverborderland" rule, which would interfere with the Magic cards printed iun the set. They could work around this by giving the reprints black/white borders though, and Silver to the D&D stuff.
I could see a Magic themed D20 game being released. But it won't be directly compatable with D&D.
Wait a sec, that would open DnD to a whole new audience... I might even get into that.
Besides, Forgoten realms could easily be part of magic, the Forgoten realms series of planes could be a mega-plane, consiting of several parts in the Magic Planar universe.
Tribute to Dr. Jeebus
Not a little Sheeple.
TSR tried this, twice, in the mid-90s
Spellfire was based of of D&D and released in '94, and Blood Wars Card Game was based specifically on the Planescape Setting and released in '95.
But didnt they reduce the powers of planeswalkers? Also D&D has an Epic Level to the classes... whats to say they couldnt have Planeswalker go Epic?
They're completely unrelated concepts. In Magic, only special people with a specific spark can walk the planes; in D&D, anyone can using spells or artifacts. They also have completely incompatible cosmologies.
EDIT: OKAY?
EDIT 2: Dragonlance would be a good place to start... lots of flavor there. ok?
EDIT 3: Nothing is truly off limits. Things that seem forbidden today might be normal tomorrow.
It's this reason I'd love to see an official Magic D20 expansion. I've started my own little one, based on basic D&D rules with alot of ducttape and prayers, but I'd much prefer to see a book (or series of books) with some official rules laid out. It's alot of work to get something good going that feels more like a magic world than like a D&D world, and it tends to involve making up stats for highly recognizable creatures (Everyone cowers when Psychatog pops out in the middle of an encounter) and visiting all the most recognizable places. It would be much better to see some rule conversions that make it feel more like magic.
The biggest problem would probably be manifesting Mana into D20 terms. I still haven't really found a way to do that yet, and it bugs me a little, because it's one of the cornerstones of magic. The colors also represent a problem. Do the players get colors? What effects do they have on the game? etc. A real, official mock up would explain alot, and probably be alot of fun.
That's what I think anyway.
And then inevitably fans would create their own sets based on third-party supplements, like Iron Kingdoms, DragonMech, or The Book of Erotic Fantasy :o.
Magic already has most of the core D&D races and classes as creature types, and personally I'm not missing Bard, Gnome or Drow at all. I'm pretty sure we can even squeeze in Beholders as Eyes. Possibly give them protection from sorceries and instants to mimic the anti-magic eye?
In memory of Richie Proffitt
aka PolarBearGod
(1978-2008)
...everything a Mod could ever hope to be...
Planeswalkers are 'Harbingers' to the RPG end of Magic the Gathering. Each planeswalker will define a new aspect to the D20 game with thier new abilities... might we expect a recrossover with a Planeswalker only format in Magic to simulate a Planeswar? Because in a D20 game you pretty much would be pitting Planeswalker vs. Planeswalker or Planeswalker vs. High Level Wizard & / or Artificer & / or Psionic player in a world full of enchantments, artifacts, sorcery spells, instance spells, the five Mana Lands, power to draw mana to cast those magic things, creatures that are summoned to do 'thy bidding' in this personal duels.
Where a 2/2 bear is a d20 bear with full d20 stats, and if enchanted becomes different and magical. This game will be different than D&D with clear objectives and reasons why you would want a creature to do your damage against a Planeswalker and bonuses to Planeswalkers that are able to destroy another Planeswalker that are set apart from gaining bonuses from destroying simple or magical creatures, whatever they may be.
But these are just ramblings... nothing special.
You don't know enough about the relationship between Tribal and Dungeons & Dragons Flavor to make this an Beholder creature.
Yes, improbable as it may seem they often talk the same fantasy language they at some points become neerly indistinguishable.
NTY. But your mention of Archons is redeeming to say the least.
Please... we are talking about crossing-over a d20/RPG Dungeons and Dragons "Beholder" over to a 'gross' under representation short of flavor. Nothing more nothing less, so a MTG DnD crossover should have by definition to be a card in Magic the Gathering these few things:
Flying
Tribal name - Beholder
High Mana cost because the are powerful.
Make it a rare because they kill each other on sight, so they tend to be powerful.
Black mana because its clearly evil.
A 3/3 represents the physical equivalation if not more a 4/4 IMBE.
A disintegration ray for the main eye.
Incorrect data from a rumor that one of the eye stocks has disintegration while only the main eye has that ability.
EDIT: But other cards would show a Behold using the main eye to disintegrate a creature with a flavor text being synical of your apparent lack of information.
"Eye of the Beholder" 2B
Instant
Destroy target non-Beholder it can't be regenerated.
"Often rumors state a form of truth we often use to our advantage. Either way they are weak in believing thier ideas are always right." Lord MankaniK
Picture: Beholder flying above a dark pit destroying with main eye a Drow.
Something else like what to expect with a generalized let down? Well yeah, I hate magic for ruining DnD too... but the bridge is made lets cross it...
A risk Wizards of the Coast will gamble to keep quarterly errnings strong. I am for it as is a dark sect sworn to... nm. Baseless is right brudda... until you crack open a pack. Oh so you know that a crossover of an interesting kind can and does happen and would pull DnD players over if a free booster was throw into large packs of DnD mini Boosters.*(very marginal cost increase to the DnD mini booster box)
Pirates a WizKid game... a collectible card ship game (Also has an online exact same as version BTW) started out being a strategy game with cardboard ships that had crew and then became an online sensation for a couple years, now the movie Pirates of the Carribean have inspired a set thats produced to play exactly like Pirates CSG and is also made by WizKids.
Crossovers are happening all the time and constitutes bringing in fresh blood to the game, new life and a sense of community. I would think it more a welcomed unity than a spiteful rant?
Lets ban Dungeons and Dragons creatures from Magic! Boycott all DnD related Magic Cards... oh wait! We cant because Lorwyn packs way too many of them... I'd have to quit magic this year and wait it out! Drat!
The OP is talking about trademark D&D characters like Drizzt. As mentioned previously the fact that D&D is subtly being ripped off left and right is less reason for them to bother with an "official" crossover.
A D20 system that involved you using actual magic decks for duels would be hilarious.
Tribute to Dr. Jeebus
Not a little Sheeple.
I know about the "trademark D&D characters" and I'm here to let people know that not always does wizards do what you expect. Just because a D&D set might come out with the official blessings of D&D players and Magic the gathering players does it mean they are going to personafy a card that was a "trademark D&D character" ... rather I would expect them to devise thier own "trademark NEW D&D characters" and new campaign settings. Because as we all know just the crossover alone will stur up the hornets nest enough without having to deal with mister ninny-pants who is upset that a "trademark D&D character" doesnt have fireball on his abilities for the card thats creating him.
So... magic players cant be upset that a set designed to entice DnD players to get into magic ruined the tournament scene. But as most will point out that any magic card released was meant to be played with in Legacy format because the portal sets were included eventually into Magic the Gathering.
Do not think that a tournament scene can totally dominate how one is to think of this game... had a time traveler went back to the year 1999 and told everyone that Magic the Gathering would go 4 sets a year not including base sets, yeah youll see they will not stop the 4 sets a year because of a base set year, you probably would have laughed and said, "BULL."
Well we are now pushing 4 sets a year... and a faceless corporation is now at the helms of this ship guided by greed. Expect the marketing franchising to begin... sloooowly, as second in command has been warning them. (a.k.a. MaRo)
You're just grasping at straws here, proposing things that make no sense and which no one in their right mind would want just in order to prove that a D&D set "could" happen.
Such a set is simply not on the table. There are lots of problems with the idea and no benefits. It will never happen, not now and not at any point before the end of either game. Saying that it will is essentially like saying "oh, well, Star Trek and Star Wars could crossover!" -- it's something that anyone who's really familiar with both knows is quite unlikely and not particularly desirable to begin with.
and that is why this place is called The Rumor Mill > Speculation > D&D-themed set after 'Doughnut'?
we all are guilty of doing this here... what was your point again?
There isnt a lot of problems with with (In fact it would be entirely too easy to do, p-sha saying that it cant be done dnd or magic standards are too high for it to be done, any card can represent a dungeons and dragons monster but not every card will accurately portray a d20 creature and its this difference every mind wants to focus on.) and there is lots of benefits (A crossover of this proportion might attract new Magic players or new DnD players also more d20 exploration)... oh you mean the problem that in your eyes and a few other people whom believe thier opinion in matters of Magic and Dungeons and Dragons is always right and final... then yeah you go Char you tha man with the polarizing plan!
Speculation is not a place for nonsense and theories with no evidence; it is a place to begin discussing possible theories about future Magic sets which are backed up by some evidence but which are not at the level of actual rumors. Bad theories with no evidence generally just make the forum harder to read and less useful at accurately predicting the content of future sets.
God I want to say QFT but I am better than that you deserve a proper rebuttal to your opinion, so here goes:
This is a place for nonsense and theories with no evidence because that is what sheer speculation "IS" so quit acting like it's not, show us you passed high school, ok? Evidence is not necessary here since this whole speculation is over a 2bit idea that doesnt fit into a 32bit game, yeah I agree not lots will carry over, but because you and a meer handful think its not worthy doesnt constitute THAT ; that IS what wizards might never actually do later, as the saying Mark Rosewater coined in an ask wizards comment:
"Nothing is truly off limits. Things that seem forbidden today might be normal tomorrow."
And planeswalkers used to be a supposed area that was off-limits, more like it was off-limits in a select fews magic players minds... kinda like now with this DnD debate, BUT LOOK planeswalkers are now full BLOWN CARDS! It's funny how a draft table might have a whiney 7-9 yr + player complaining the game is flavor ruined because a planeswalker shouldnt be some underpowered card that doesnt attack, while at that same drafting table a new player may think to themselves, "why is this idiot complaining so dam much?"
this comment is from me directly to you about this arrogant statement:
"Might as well delete most every post in the speculation area since most every post is baseless and a theory without direct holding a card in hand as proof thier theory is a reality. And if this fact clouds your mind too much you know you can hit the bricks and take your readings elsewhere to be intimidating because any post that begins with a fusion of Dungeons and Dragons into a Magic set is BY NO MEANS ANY FREAKING WAY CLOSE TO CALLING THIS A POST ABOUT A FUTURE SET."