When I heard that the B/W guild was coming out in Guildpact, I was ecstatic to say the least. I was curious about how they were planning to link the two colors when they seems so utterly at odds, and also because I look forward to see the awesome cards that would be released which encompasses two of Magic's favourite colors. However, as I read spoiler after spoiler, I find myself at a loss as to how to respond to the Orzhov guild. On the one hand, you have all these scary Aggro cards coming for Gruul, and on the other is Izzet's sheer madness and "combolicious" abilities. Then we have Orzhov. I have read some posts, with some stating that Orzhov would be underpowered, other overpowered, and others saying that they would be on par.
I guess the slow "bleeding" death strategy of Orzhov is viable, albeit a slow, slow, slow win. It's just that after the spoilers I just feel that Orzhov wasn't what I expected at all, and not in a particularly good way. It's playable, that much I know, but what will make me want to play it?
I was kinda hoping a little more from the orzhov, too. The only think I'm not happy with is the guild mechanic. haunt just doesn't really work with the rest of the guild as well as the other mechanics. flavorfully, it's cool though.
Haunt has its uses, albeit too little, too late at times, but there's no denying the charm that Orzhov possesses, what with their ruthless business agendas and secretive dealings. It's just that, if they exploited the agreement of the Guildpact so much and it granted them so much power, shouldn't we be seeing some of that in the cards?
b/w was my favorite color combination, and I was really looking forward to the Orzhov guild coming out. The Guildmage was a disappointment, unless, I am still hoping, its abilities cost two instead of three (my hope will not be extinguished until I see a scan of the card). Even if its abilities are costed at three, I'll play him just for the art, and his occaisonally playable abilities. The artwork is cool on most of the Orzhov cards, but as far as playable cards we get Teysa, Mortify, Pontiff, maybe Debtor's Knell, did I leave anything out? Don't say the angel, it is not playable over the dragons. I was rather disappointed with the Orzhov. You can't build a deck around three playable cards, maybe a few more, but we don't have the complete spoiler yet so maybe they'll do a complete turn around with the guild (doubt it). I like the artwork on all the b/w lands, though.
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i was also looking to the orzhov to be great as i started playing magic with b/w. but i have to say im very disappointed with what we've seen so far. we've gotten over costed weenies with a weak mechanic, or over costed 'win more' cards. i guess i'll just be gettin GP for the duals...
I think its best to save the "this guild is crap" rants until after the set is out because ultimately you'll only need a couple rares, a couple uncommons, and a couple commons that you think are awesome to decide that the set was great for B/W
Agreed gamermk. I think we should wait until we see everything first before we rush to judgement. However, what has been revealed so far is poor. The only b/w card I currently desire from GP is the dual land.
I think its best to save the "this guild is crap" rants until after the set is out because ultimately you'll only need a couple rares, a couple uncommons, and a couple commons that you think are awesome to decide that the set was great for B/W
I don't think the Orzhov is underpowered at all, if take off your Gruul "big fat obviousness" hats and think outside the box.
Nasty things come from using Plagued Rusalka to sac Festering Goblins while feeding Teysa, activate Promise of the Bunrei, make Cry of Contrition discard two cards for 1 mana, or make Orzhov Pontiff pick off all opposing weenies. Add Horobii, Death's Wail to the mix and every -1/-1 effect is spot removal for weenies and fatties alike - not to mention that Orzhov Pontiff becomes a one sided *** for 3 mana.
I assure you this: Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, that has as many activated abilities as to the Orzhov creatures can be considered underpowered without massive testing.
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Look, the fact of the matter is, all the guilds are good. Gruul is good. Izzet is good. Orzhov is good. Each has strong points and weak points. One guild may have a greater effect on the game, but that doesn't mean the others should be dismissed. Besides, at this point it's too hard to say. There have been surprises in the past. I'm just looking forward to Guildpact.
While you're doing all of that fun stuff, Burning Tree Shaman just kills you.
before it can kill us we mortify it. Then we wrath away there assorted smal creatures nad slum the next turn. Then we play ghostcouncil or a koko. Then we gain a bit of life while killing anything you play.
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
While you're doing all of that fun stuff, Burning Tree Shaman just kills you.
Burning tree shaman is a good card, its rare for a reason, but black/white is the king of creature removal. A few names come to mind, disembowl or mortify or even culling sun and plenty others.
And thats if it even makes it to play with all the discard orzhov has.
This guild is not bad, it is just slow. If this doesn't suite your playing style then don't play orzhov (more orzhov cards for me while drafting )
i was hoping for a little more graveyard interaction because haunt totaly misses it and black being king of reanimation etc and white second or third. Plus we havnt seen too many of their cards yet (or im too scared to look at the spoiler.) and we won't know too much untill the cards are released and tested, I for one are looking for cards for my Purgatory deck.
Here's what I'm thinking of as a creature base for b/w aggro-control.
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Flying Rats
4x Specter
4x Blind Hunter
2x Teysa
3x Council
I also like Pontiff in the board, and the wall that drains when dealt damage. I just love all the hand control available, dont you. The reason I stuck Hunter in there is because he's one of the only creatures with Haunt that I really like, that means he works well with Teysa and Council.
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That wall they have actually looks really good (the 0/4 for WWB, I think...every time its dealt damage they lose that much and you gain that much). It would be a real headache to deal with- it basically means everything you attack with has to have 4 or more power or it's really not worth it (even attacking with 3 3/3s will result in both of you going down 3). And since the Orzhov have access to Mortify and Castigate, you might not be able to make those 4+ power dudes swing all that often.
I think its best to save the "this guild is crap" rants until after the set is out because ultimately you'll only need a couple rares, a couple uncommons, and a couple commons that you think are awesome to decide that the set was great for B/W
So, so true.
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This guild would do so well against control, with all the hand control. It also might do well against aggro with the good removal and life gain. Don't forget about the great sideboard. Extraction vs. Combo, Shadow of Doubt vs. Gifts, Pithing Needle vs. Nearly everything, and Pontiff vs. aggro.
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I guess that psychologically, if Creative's description of Orzhov appeals to you then you should be the kind of player that enjoys the loooong, excruciating path to victory that is bleeding opponents. Orzhov is no place for 2cc 3/3s or such nonsense. That's what Gruul is for. Orzhov only seems weak to people since we're conditioned that a slow, controlling deck without is bad. Just my 2 cents.
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I guess the slow "bleeding" death strategy of Orzhov is viable, albeit a slow, slow, slow win. It's just that after the spoilers I just feel that Orzhov wasn't what I expected at all, and not in a particularly good way. It's playable, that much I know, but what will make me want to play it?
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HOWEVER, I like CIP creatures alot, so I'm sure many haunt creatures will make it into my casual constructed deck.
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Read Zvi's article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/zm28 He says all kinds of things about the Orzhov... Nice things:wink:
Nasty things come from using Plagued Rusalka to sac Festering Goblins while feeding Teysa, activate Promise of the Bunrei, make Cry of Contrition discard two cards for 1 mana, or make Orzhov Pontiff pick off all opposing weenies. Add Horobii, Death's Wail to the mix and every -1/-1 effect is spot removal for weenies and fatties alike - not to mention that Orzhov Pontiff becomes a one sided *** for 3 mana.
I assure you this: Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, that has as many activated abilities as to the Orzhov creatures can be considered underpowered without massive testing.
-Ernest Hemingway
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Burning tree shaman is a good card, its rare for a reason, but black/white is the king of creature removal. A few names come to mind, disembowl or mortify or even culling sun and plenty others.
And thats if it even makes it to play with all the discard orzhov has.
This guild is not bad, it is just slow. If this doesn't suite your playing style then don't play orzhov (more orzhov cards for me while drafting )
und die Macht
und die Herrlichkeit
der Anfang vom Ende
der Weg und das Ziel“
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Flying Rats
4x Specter
4x Blind Hunter
2x Teysa
3x Council
I also like Pontiff in the board, and the wall that drains when dealt damage. I just love all the hand control available, dont you. The reason I stuck Hunter in there is because he's one of the only creatures with Haunt that I really like, that means he works well with Teysa and Council.
So, so true.