Maybe it's just me, but... does anyone else think that Ravnica very closely resembles Sigil in the Planescape setting of D&D? I mean, we've got a vast, sprawling city; a number of guilds = factions who more or less hold the power in an uneasy truce; an improbable mixture of all kinds of creatures (or creature types) from all over the planes; and so on...
The only thing that's still missing in Ravnica is the Lady and Portals, as far as I can see.
Very good observation. Finally summoning sickness makes sense as more often than not, when primers come to sigil for the first time, they usually get sick at the vertigo the city gives. Heh Seriously though, I wouldnt be suprised if at least the artist who did the rav lands is influenced by the imagry of planescape.
Add some hot Tiefling women and we're set
I imagine sigil is larger than ravnica if miles were used. Sigil was intentionally made to be unimaginablly huge. Man, this is giving me nostalga. (used to have a nice planescape game back in 2nd ed)
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Hehe true true Kist. Speaking of that article. I always feel a little uncomfortable reading phrases like “edgy” describing the desired goal for any game I play it. It remindes me overly much of a bunch of marketing ex. who are missing the point by such a large margin its embarasing. At first I thought the description was sarcastic, but the more I read, the more I realized that it was an example of how guidelines are actually given out.
Edit: oh, no sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned miles. I just mean to say, Sigil is probably larger.
Ravnica also has a philosophical similarity to Sigil. Just as Sigil explored the range of DnD alignments in quite interesting ways - with different factions representing Chaotic Evil, True Neutral, and so forth - Ravnica is digging deep into the colour pie of magic in the form of the Guilds to showcase how the different colours of magic can intersect and complement each other.
When you look at Boros and compare it to Selesnya, you can't help but learn more about White, Red and Green's philosophies, and each Guild shows you more. That's a theme I'm looking forward to following throughout the whole block.
Ravnica also has a philosophical similarity to Sigil. Just as Sigil explored the range of DnD alignments in quite interesting ways - with different factions representing Chaotic Evil, True Neutral, and so forth - Ravnica is digging deep into the colour pie of magic in the form of the Guilds to showcase how the different colours of magic can intersect and complement each other.
That's what finally clued me in to the similarities, yes...
Now, think we can get some Chaotic Neutral guild in M:tG?
I'm starting to feel nostalgic already. ::considers Planescape: Torment the best CRPG ever::
On the subject at hand ... I would think it would apply more to Coruscant than Sigil. I never played Planescape, unfortunately (neither the table-top version, nor the oh-so-hailed computer game), but a "planet-covering city" has Coruscant written all over it.
Heh, well. My group still plays 2nd edition. It's home to all of us and we love it. We just haven't played a planescape game in about four years or so.
Just replied to another thread and was struck by another great City that Ravnica reminds me of. Fantasy-based, cosmopolitan mix of races (including trolls and undead!), ruled by a collection of guilds who are ultimately controlled by a dark, shadowy, manipulative figure. Which City I hear you ask?
Why Terry Pratchett's Discworld metropolis Ankh-Mopork of course!
Just like Ravnica there are always stories lurking just beneath the surface of even the most insignificant-seeming resident.
With all this talk about The Lady of Pain and now the shadowy, manipulative leader of Ankh-Mopork... I wonder if the final set in Ravnica will reveal some powerfull legendary creature that is outside of all the guilds. The true leader of Ravnica...
Hmmm, maybe the final uberlegend is the city itself??
Ravnica, City of a million souls
Legendary Land - City Forest Plains Mountain Swamp Island (I know it wouldn't fit on the card but let me dream!)
When Ravnica, Coams comes into play each player sacrifices one forest, plains, mountain, island and swamp
T, Sacrifice Ravnica, Coams: Add UBRWG to your mana pool
UUBBRRWWGG: Ravnica, Coams becomes an X/X UBRWG creature where X = the number of all creatures in play and in all graveyards. It has the following ability:
UBRWG, Remove creature you control from the game: Ravnica, Coams gains the abilities of all creatures removed from the game by Ravnica, Coams.
Probably broken in a million different ways, even if it could fit on a magic card!
Actually, since rumors about Ravnica started to appear, I've been wondering if Wizards somehow were implanting alignments, as in D&D. If they do, this is my take on it:
White: Lawful good
White/Green: Neutral Good
White/Red: Chaotic Good
Blue/White: Lawful Neutral
Green: True Neutral
Red/Green: Chaotic Neutal
Blue/Black: Lawful Evil
Black: Neutral Evil
Red/Black: Chaotic Evil
Then of course there is a couple of colors/colorcombinations missing. Blue, Red, White/Black, Black/Green, Red/Blue and Green/Blue. Maybe there is other holes as well, like misplacements as well, but this is my take on it.
The problem with that is that no Magic colour is either good or evil. The only parallels are White's Lawful and Red's Chaotic.
The problem with comparing Ravnica to Ankh-Morpork, or Sigil, or Coruscant (or Trantor, that's a good one...), is that any sprawling metropolis in a high fantasy/sci-fi setting is going to have certain similar characteristics. It's going to be polyglot and dangerous, usually ruled by incompetent tyrants who can't keep track of half of what goes on in it.
I thought instantly of New Crobuzon, having just finished Iron Council a couple weeks ago. As I think on it now, it's not so very different from Lankhmar, either (although Lankhmar only has humans in it, more or less).
On the other hand, let's look at what Ravnica has going for it in terms of originality:
-It has no real central authority. Every other city we've mentioned has a strong governing body, even if that body can't actually control it. Ravnica may have the Azorius Senate, but as I understand the relationship between the guilds, it remains just one among ten. It's especially interesting to me that the body that makes that laws has no real authority over the body that enforces them (although I guess the Jedi have that going, too).
-It's got a distinct real-world cultural tweak. Although that can be kind of a cheap trick, especially compared to coming up with new cultures out of whole cloth, it does ensure a unique look and feel that's different from any of the cities we've named.
-It has the Guildpact. We're talking about a city that essentially has multiple municipal governments only kept from a state of open warfare by an agreement ten thousand years old. I can't think of anything comparable in anything I've read (wellll... the ridings in Armada in China Mieville's "The Scar," a little, but it's hard to compare anything to Armada).
I've got kind of a funny story involving Ravnica's originality, actually. Months ago my friends and I were looking at doing a homebrewed Magic set. I posted on our private message board that it would be cool to set it on a plane entirely covered by cities and explore the role that each of the colors would play in such a different landscape. They pretty much posted back, "This is a joke, right?" and linked me to the newly-posted announcement on Mtg.com unveiling Ravnica and introducing the setting. I, of course, hadn't read it or heard about it, although it had been posted about ten hours earlier.
Well, typically magic tries to avoid the good/evil thing for several reasons. Ravnica has broken some of magics "rules" already. And I really think that the guilds do seem to have alignment. That doesnt mean that red or white have to be "chaotic good" but boros may be "chaotic good"
I vaguely remember some rumor too about the green/blue guild being quite "evil". Not sure if there is any truth to this.
Hmmm, maybe the final uberlegend is the city itself??
Ravnica, City of a million souls
Legendary Land - City Forest Plains Mountain Swamp Island (I know it wouldn't fit on the card but let me dream!)
When Ravnica, Coams comes into play each player sacrifices one forest, plains, mountain, island and swamp
T, Sacrifice Ravnica, Coams: Add UBRWG to your mana pool
UUBBRRWWGG: Ravnica, Coams becomes an X/X UBRWG creature where X = the number of all creatures in play and in all graveyards. It has the following ability:
UBRWG, Remove creature you control from the game: Ravnica, Coams gains the abilities of all creatures removed from the game by Ravnica, Coams.
Probably broken in a million different ways, even if it could fit on a magic card!
I believe a city that covers the entire plane would have at least a thousand times more people than that
Actually, since rumors about Ravnica started to appear, I've been wondering if Wizards somehow were implanting alignments, as in D&D. If they do, this is my take on it:
White: Lawful good
White/Green: Neutral Good
White/Red: Chaotic Good
Blue/White: Lawful Neutral
Green: True Neutral
Red/Green: Chaotic Neutal
Blue/Black: Lawful Evil
Black: Neutral Evil
Red/Black: Chaotic Evil
Then of course there is a couple of colors/colorcombinations missing. Blue, Red, White/Black, Black/Green, Red/Blue and Green/Blue. Maybe there is other holes as well, like misplacements as well, but this is my take on it.
G/W: Neutral Good
W/U: Lawful Good
R/W: Chaotic Good
W/B: Lawful Evil
U/R: Chaotic Neutral
G/U: Lawful Neutral
U/B: Lawful Evil
R/G: Chaotic Neutral
B/R: Chaotic Evil
B/G: Neutral Evil
Some of them are a little weird, like U/R and U/G, but I think it works.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"One skilled at battle takes a stand in the ground of no defeat
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
-- The Art of War, Sun Tzu
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The only thing that's still missing in Ravnica is the Lady and Portals, as far as I can see.
Has anyone else had the same thoughts?
Add some hot Tiefling women and we're set
I imagine sigil is larger than ravnica if miles were used. Sigil was intentionally made to be unimaginablly huge. Man, this is giving me nostalga. (used to have a nice planescape game back in 2nd ed)
Guildmaster Jarad
But Ravnica would be larger using a different unit of measurement?
Edit: oh, no sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned miles. I just mean to say, Sigil is probably larger.
When you look at Boros and compare it to Selesnya, you can't help but learn more about White, Red and Green's philosophies, and each Guild shows you more. That's a theme I'm looking forward to following throughout the whole block.
That's what finally clued me in to the similarities, yes...
Now, think we can get some Chaotic Neutral guild in M:tG?
I'm starting to feel nostalgic already. ::considers Planescape: Torment the best CRPG ever::
Correct.
On the subject at hand ... I would think it would apply more to Coruscant than Sigil. I never played Planescape, unfortunately (neither the table-top version, nor the oh-so-hailed computer game), but a "planet-covering city" has Coruscant written all over it.
... plus, it's just a cool idea.
Why Terry Pratchett's Discworld metropolis Ankh-Mopork of course!
Just like Ravnica there are always stories lurking just beneath the surface of even the most insignificant-seeming resident.
With all this talk about The Lady of Pain and now the shadowy, manipulative leader of Ankh-Mopork... I wonder if the final set in Ravnica will reveal some powerfull legendary creature that is outside of all the guilds. The true leader of Ravnica...
Ravnica, City of a million souls
Legendary Land - City Forest Plains Mountain Swamp Island (I know it wouldn't fit on the card but let me dream!)
When Ravnica, Coams comes into play each player sacrifices one forest, plains, mountain, island and swamp
T, Sacrifice Ravnica, Coams: Add UBRWG to your mana pool
UUBBRRWWGG: Ravnica, Coams becomes an X/X UBRWG creature where X = the number of all creatures in play and in all graveyards. It has the following ability:
UBRWG, Remove creature you control from the game: Ravnica, Coams gains the abilities of all creatures removed from the game by Ravnica, Coams.
Probably broken in a million different ways, even if it could fit on a magic card!
The problem with that is that no Magic colour is either good or evil. The only parallels are White's Lawful and Red's Chaotic.
I thought instantly of New Crobuzon, having just finished Iron Council a couple weeks ago. As I think on it now, it's not so very different from Lankhmar, either (although Lankhmar only has humans in it, more or less).
On the other hand, let's look at what Ravnica has going for it in terms of originality:
-It has no real central authority. Every other city we've mentioned has a strong governing body, even if that body can't actually control it. Ravnica may have the Azorius Senate, but as I understand the relationship between the guilds, it remains just one among ten. It's especially interesting to me that the body that makes that laws has no real authority over the body that enforces them (although I guess the Jedi have that going, too).
-It's got a distinct real-world cultural tweak. Although that can be kind of a cheap trick, especially compared to coming up with new cultures out of whole cloth, it does ensure a unique look and feel that's different from any of the cities we've named.
-It has the Guildpact. We're talking about a city that essentially has multiple municipal governments only kept from a state of open warfare by an agreement ten thousand years old. I can't think of anything comparable in anything I've read (wellll... the ridings in Armada in China Mieville's "The Scar," a little, but it's hard to compare anything to Armada).
I've got kind of a funny story involving Ravnica's originality, actually. Months ago my friends and I were looking at doing a homebrewed Magic set. I posted on our private message board that it would be cool to set it on a plane entirely covered by cities and explore the role that each of the colors would play in such a different landscape. They pretty much posted back, "This is a joke, right?" and linked me to the newly-posted announcement on Mtg.com unveiling Ravnica and introducing the setting. I, of course, hadn't read it or heard about it, although it had been posted about ten hours earlier.
I vaguely remember some rumor too about the green/blue guild being quite "evil". Not sure if there is any truth to this.
Owner of IcyGeek.com
I believe a city that covers the entire plane would have at least a thousand times more people than that
Level 2 Judge
Token and Playmat Store
Beyond the Guildpact
G/W: Neutral Good
W/U: Lawful Good
R/W: Chaotic Good
W/B: Lawful Evil
U/R: Chaotic Neutral
G/U: Lawful Neutral
U/B: Lawful Evil
R/G: Chaotic Neutral
B/R: Chaotic Evil
B/G: Neutral Evil
Some of them are a little weird, like U/R and U/G, but I think it works.
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."