Blue's counterspell is bad, but will be played in block, and likely in T2 once the average cmc settles down.
Reds is the finisher that makes you block. Free Shrapnelblasts aren't fun, and when they come with unblocked creatures, you know you're in trouble. Extended might even like this for RDWs...
Black's removal is just one way red's won't get overpowered, but is a mighty fine card beyond that and will see play in both block and T2.
White's is likely life gain or +1,+1 counters to blockers for each damage out o the X is prevents. WHere as the latter is kind of cool; it just makes the black remover all the more needed.
But green... green houses the best artiact hate in T2, and the best mana creatures and fatties in betrayers. So; the question is; what is green's shoal?
Not a chance:
1/1 colorless spirit tokens. 7 1/1s turn 1? No.
1/1 green snake tokens. No.
Destroy X artifacts.
Destroy X lands
Destroy X enchantments
Destroy X creatures
Destroy X of anything.
target creature gets +X,+X. Inferior to red = no.
A chance:
- X lands become 1/1s. Almost useless outside of it's free casting cost, when used late game it's a small rude awakening.
- Gain X life. Good in standard; it gives tooth and nail a way to gain back the life Red and affinity and WW have taken away. Nobody needs two tooth N nails anways.
- destroy target artifact/enchantment with CMC = X. This sounds too red and not green. Green just doesn't do this.
- Tutor creature = X. Very likely, Useful if there are more legends with the same cmc out there, and useful normally.
what if is something like
"put a card with cmc equal or less than X from your hand into play"
some sort of mixed pipper's ability?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is just that we should be grateful, not only to those with whose views we may agree, but also to those who have expressed more superficial views; for these also contributed something, by developing before us the powers of thought." ~Aristotle
what if is something like
"put a card with cmc equal or less than X from your hand into play"
some sort of mixed pipper's ability?
So... either you want me to be able to pitch a shoal and a green orochi patron to put a 7/7 into play first turn (IE, no), or pay XGG to put something into play at instant speed.
well.. yeah.. cause the standard green ability.. the +x/+x was already taken by the red one.. and creating a lot of tokens is broken too.. so what's left? a hurricane like ability???
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is just that we should be grateful, not only to those with whose views we may agree, but also to those who have expressed more superficial views; for these also contributed something, by developing before us the powers of thought." ~Aristotle
With the red one being, more or less damage, the black one being creature destruction, and the blue one being a counter, the green one is either going to be XGG destroy target artifact or enchantment with CC equal to X, or XGG destroy target artifact with CC equal to X. Depending on whether the white one is enchantment destruction, or life gain/damage prevention.
i don't think that the green one is going to be that.. it would be imho the weaker one in the set
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is just that we should be grateful, not only to those with whose views we may agree, but also to those who have expressed more superficial views; for these also contributed something, by developing before us the powers of thought." ~Aristotle
It would be too powerfull if it where a global removal spell.... it might be a type of artifact destruction but for onyl 1 and in that case it would be vastly inferiour to otehr variants of artifact destruction
i think sengir is right. it would most likely be an "xgg" (obviously) instant that turns x lands into 2/2 or 3/3 creatures, or turns a single land into an x/x creature.
additionally, i think the white one taps x permanents...maybe even Blinds them?
hmm, come to think of it, i think the creatures it makes are bigger than 2/2 or it can target only your lands, because if it did have the ability to make your opponent's lands 2/2 creautres for free, it'd be too good with pyroclasm and a bunch of other cards...
With the red one being, more or less damage, the black one being creature destruction, and the blue one being a counter, the green one is either going to be XGG destroy target artifact or enchantment with CC equal to X, or XGG destroy target artifact with CC equal to X. Depending on whether the white one is enchantment destruction, or life gain/damage prevention.
This would be horrible. There's already Wear Away in Block and Naturalize/Oxidize in Standard. (Or Demystify, its Arcane cousin, and Terashi's Grasp if we're theorizing this for white.)
So lets see, X token creatures would be broken, +X/+X would be a bit too redundant with red, and the pseudo-piper would be incredibly broken. The hurricane variant sounds plausable, but we already have Gale Force (which, admittedly, is pricey). Perhaps creature or land tutoring?
Look at the top X cards of your library and put all creature/land cards into your hand. Put the rest under your library in any order.
Now, how about that?
That would be...wow. Like a selective Braingeyser for green with alternate casting option. I thought that somewhere on these boards, people were discussing that it was going to be Destroy X artifacts and or enchantments. I'd personally be happy with either of those two options. The token creating ability would definatley be too powerful, at least after Echoing Decay rotated out of Standard.
With the red one being, more or less damage, the black one being creature destruction, and the blue one being a counter, the green one is either going to be XGG destroy target artifact or enchantment with CC equal to X, or XGG destroy target artifact with CC equal to X. Depending on whether the white one is enchantment destruction, or life gain/damage prevention.
This appears to be the way to go. However, I think that white being the unknown counterpart to red will confer +0/+X to balance it out or it may be gain life or prevent damage. Now I know prevent X damage after discarding 2 cards is really bad but hey, R&D have done it before, they can make a bad card again. Now there may be a small chance of the green one being +X/+X but I doubt it. I don't think that it would make the others inferior. My reason for this is because green will always be green and one thing I notice about the shoals is that they are colour restrictive which means that you can only really use each shoal effectively in its respective colour. Basically I'm saying even if it turns out to be a good card (+X/+X) what deck will they play it in that really breaks the deck? I'm sure you can splash it into WW but then you just lose cards, you may as well play might of oaks instead. Remember they came out with enrage, while green got better pumps like timberwatch elf, and that was when a green weenie or elf was worth playing and would actually be able to use this effectively. I don't think R&D mind giving green a huge boost cause they don't really need it (or they know it won't be played )If you are going to argue that you can use it in snake then I either suggest you become a casual player or quit magic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To underestimate the rat is to welcome death with open arms. To challenge the guinea pig is to attempt flight without wings. To honour a mouse is to show reverence for all of Mother Nature. To understand all of this is attempting to unravel the secrets and meaning of creation... NOT A CHANCE IN HELL!!!:dance2:
:caco:
Look at the top X cards of your library and put all creature/land cards into your hand. Put the rest under your library in any order.
Now, how about that?
It's far too blue-ish. The reason all the colours can beat each other is because they have their own abilities and weaknesses. They would be giving green a bit too much power by allowing it to select. Like magma jet with red only it wasn't that devestating. Take a look at Commune with nature. Yes it is green selection but right after you choose one thing, the rest go to the bottom which means that you can't decided your future which is what blue/selection is all about. Besides thats completely over-powered. Imagine dumping your whole hand on the table by turn 3 and then you just use the shoal w/vine kami and refill your hand. Hell I would splash green just for that. Time of need for myojin of lifes web (in a U/G deck) shoal it, draw ten cards and flip jushi apprentice. Or just play it in WW. Time of need, myojin, might of oaks, and the shoals maybe even giant growth. A lot of decks play mostly creatures and lands with very few sorceries and instants. So if you shoal the myojin You would look at ten cards and get a minimum of 7. If you are really unlucky you'll get 6 but there is nothing wrong with discarding 2 (or 3 with the time of need) and drawing between 6 and 10
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To underestimate the rat is to welcome death with open arms. To challenge the guinea pig is to attempt flight without wings. To honour a mouse is to show reverence for all of Mother Nature. To understand all of this is attempting to unravel the secrets and meaning of creation... NOT A CHANCE IN HELL!!!:dance2:
:caco:
Im leaning more toward life-gain just because that way, T+N or any Green deck for that matter can get some of it's life back from RAffinity. Just like twintwist said, I suppose. :smile2:
First of all, red's Shoal is +X/+0, not +X/+X. Anyway, the only thing that would come to mind for green is putting creature tokens into play, or distributing +1/+1 tokens on creatures, or, dare I say it, search your library for X basic lands and put them into play? That last one sounds good. Maybe too good.
Oh, well, we'll find out when someone finds this card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
How about a Regrowth variant? I am thinking along the lines of a card that allows you to return a card with CMC x or maybe x or less. Nostalgic Dreams was part of a cycle, so could this be reasonable?
First of all, red's Shoal is +X/+0, not +X/+X. Anyway, the only thing that would come to mind for green is putting creature tokens into play, or distributing +1/+1 tokens on creatures, or, dare I say it, search your library for X basic lands and put them into play? That last one sounds good. Maybe too good.
Oh, well, we'll find out when someone finds this card.
the last one is way to over powered.. like it.. but i know they won't create such thing..
and.. can you imagine creating tokens? in casual with a cloudscaper?
but i think they'll spoil our fun
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is just that we should be grateful, not only to those with whose views we may agree, but also to those who have expressed more superficial views; for these also contributed something, by developing before us the powers of thought." ~Aristotle
Now I know prevent X damage after discarding 2 cards is really bad but hey, R&D have done it before, they can make a bad card again.
You can always just pay XCC. (Not saying this would make it any better.) People seem to be forgetting that these are still spells that can be played like any other. Sometimes its best to pay for that basking Rootwalla or cast that Renewed Faith instead of cycling it. Don't get trapped in having to use the "gimmick" to play the card.
Oh noes I posted speculation in a speculation forum!!!!!!!!
Seriously why wouldnt they make a Meltdown variant? You say it would be overpowered but isnt the best deck in the format overpowered also?
Just throwing stuff out there.
1. It's not speculation if you know it's wrong.
2. Name 1 card (outside of disiciple, a colored 1 toughness creature from a set BEFORE affinity was broken) in affinity that's "overpowered"? Trading artifacts for +1,+1 counters? I don't see you playing the green thing that gave 1 +1,+1 counter or 1 card, do I?
3. Meltdown can hit multiple objects, destroy multiple cards. None of the others can do that. ANd you want it to do it for free. Ditch a BOP, destroy all artifact lands, all spellbombs, all welding jars, all chrome moxes, etc? Bull.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Reds is the finisher that makes you block. Free Shrapnelblasts aren't fun, and when they come with unblocked creatures, you know you're in trouble. Extended might even like this for RDWs...
Black's removal is just one way red's won't get overpowered, but is a mighty fine card beyond that and will see play in both block and T2.
White's is likely life gain or +1,+1 counters to blockers for each damage out o the X is prevents. WHere as the latter is kind of cool; it just makes the black remover all the more needed.
But green... green houses the best artiact hate in T2, and the best mana creatures and fatties in betrayers. So; the question is; what is green's shoal?
Not a chance:
1/1 colorless spirit tokens. 7 1/1s turn 1? No.
1/1 green snake tokens. No.
Destroy X artifacts.
Destroy X lands
Destroy X enchantments
Destroy X creatures
Destroy X of anything.
target creature gets +X,+X. Inferior to red = no.
A chance:
- X lands become 1/1s. Almost useless outside of it's free casting cost, when used late game it's a small rude awakening.
- Gain X life. Good in standard; it gives tooth and nail a way to gain back the life Red and affinity and WW have taken away. Nobody needs two tooth N nails anways.
- destroy target artifact/enchantment with CMC = X. This sounds too red and not green. Green just doesn't do this.
- Tutor creature = X. Very likely, Useful if there are more legends with the same cmc out there, and useful normally.
"put a card with cmc equal or less than X from your hand into play"
some sort of mixed pipper's ability?
~Aristotle
So... either you want me to be able to pitch a shoal and a green orochi patron to put a 7/7 into play first turn (IE, no), or pay XGG to put something into play at instant speed.
I'm going to say not likely and broken.
~Aristotle
~Aristotle
If you're going to make short and useless posts, please at least use card tags.
I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
additionally, i think the white one taps x permanents...maybe even Blinds them?
hmm, come to think of it, i think the creatures it makes are bigger than 2/2 or it can target only your lands, because if it did have the ability to make your opponent's lands 2/2 creautres for free, it'd be too good with pyroclasm and a bunch of other cards...
This would be horrible. There's already Wear Away in Block and Naturalize/Oxidize in Standard. (Or Demystify, its Arcane cousin, and Terashi's Grasp if we're theorizing this for white.)
So lets see, X token creatures would be broken, +X/+X would be a bit too redundant with red, and the pseudo-piper would be incredibly broken. The hurricane variant sounds plausable, but we already have Gale Force (which, admittedly, is pricey). Perhaps creature or land tutoring?
Now, how about that?
<Qzilla> losing to girls at magic is such a high
That would be...wow. Like a selective Braingeyser for green with alternate casting option. I thought that somewhere on these boards, people were discussing that it was going to be Destroy X artifacts and or enchantments. I'd personally be happy with either of those two options. The token creating ability would definatley be too powerful, at least after Echoing Decay rotated out of Standard.
This appears to be the way to go. However, I think that white being the unknown counterpart to red will confer +0/+X to balance it out or it may be gain life or prevent damage. Now I know prevent X damage after discarding 2 cards is really bad but hey, R&D have done it before, they can make a bad card again. Now there may be a small chance of the green one being +X/+X but I doubt it. I don't think that it would make the others inferior. My reason for this is because green will always be green and one thing I notice about the shoals is that they are colour restrictive which means that you can only really use each shoal effectively in its respective colour. Basically I'm saying even if it turns out to be a good card (+X/+X) what deck will they play it in that really breaks the deck? I'm sure you can splash it into WW but then you just lose cards, you may as well play might of oaks instead. Remember they came out with enrage, while green got better pumps like timberwatch elf, and that was when a green weenie or elf was worth playing and would actually be able to use this effectively. I don't think R&D mind giving green a huge boost cause they don't really need it (or they know it won't be played )If you are going to argue that you can use it in snake then I either suggest you become a casual player or quit magic.
:caco:
It's far too blue-ish. The reason all the colours can beat each other is because they have their own abilities and weaknesses. They would be giving green a bit too much power by allowing it to select. Like magma jet with red only it wasn't that devestating. Take a look at Commune with nature. Yes it is green selection but right after you choose one thing, the rest go to the bottom which means that you can't decided your future which is what blue/selection is all about. Besides thats completely over-powered. Imagine dumping your whole hand on the table by turn 3 and then you just use the shoal w/vine kami and refill your hand. Hell I would splash green just for that. Time of need for myojin of lifes web (in a U/G deck) shoal it, draw ten cards and flip jushi apprentice. Or just play it in WW. Time of need, myojin, might of oaks, and the shoals maybe even giant growth. A lot of decks play mostly creatures and lands with very few sorceries and instants. So if you shoal the myojin You would look at ten cards and get a minimum of 7. If you are really unlucky you'll get 6 but there is nothing wrong with discarding 2 (or 3 with the time of need) and drawing between 6 and 10
:caco:
Oh, well, we'll find out when someone finds this card.
Oh noes I posted speculation in a speculation forum!!!!!!!!
Seriously why wouldnt they make a Meltdown variant? You say it would be overpowered but isnt the best deck in the format overpowered also?
Just throwing stuff out there.
the last one is way to over powered.. like it.. but i know they won't create such thing..
and.. can you imagine creating tokens? in casual with a cloudscaper?
but i think they'll spoil our fun
~Aristotle
You can always just pay XCC. (Not saying this would make it any better.) People seem to be forgetting that these are still spells that can be played like any other. Sometimes its best to pay for that basking Rootwalla or cast that Renewed Faith instead of cycling it. Don't get trapped in having to use the "gimmick" to play the card.
1. It's not speculation if you know it's wrong.
2. Name 1 card (outside of disiciple, a colored 1 toughness creature from a set BEFORE affinity was broken) in affinity that's "overpowered"? Trading artifacts for +1,+1 counters? I don't see you playing the green thing that gave 1 +1,+1 counter or 1 card, do I?
3. Meltdown can hit multiple objects, destroy multiple cards. None of the others can do that. ANd you want it to do it for free. Ditch a BOP, destroy all artifact lands, all spellbombs, all welding jars, all chrome moxes, etc? Bull.