So here wotc talks a little bit about the new logo. What caught my attention however was the reimagined card back, available in the form of Ultra Pro sleeves.
On Blogatog it was mentioned several times in the past years that a new back is something wotc thinks about. So far they obviously did not change it. If this is a "when" or an "if" has to be seen.
Maybe they want to at least test us by showing us this?
I don't even dislike it a lot. Just a little bit. But the thought of having cards with different backs just irritates me.
edited the title, card back not frame ... :/
Going to keep this in the main Rumor Mill forum because it concerns an actual product release, but the BaseSpec tag has been added to the title to confirm that any talk of a new card back in paper Magic as opposed to customizable backs in Arena is in fact baseless speculation.
Changing card backs is a known CCG killer. WotC would need to have very good market research showing that this wouldn't happen before they commit to it.
That said, I think that card back is pretty killer.
On Blogatog it was mentioned severl times in the past years that a new back is something wotc thinks about.
Now that DFCs are a thing, it's less impossible than it was before. I still don't think that it's a good move - even the DFCs have "normal" card backs (in the form of checklist cards).
MTG would not be the first card game to change the back. VTES and L5R both went through back changes. VTES was entirely casual, however, and L5R had no "Legacy" format - tournaments were effectively "standard" only.
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I really don't like this at all. It's way too... clean, I guess. It looks like I'm about to be abducted. Imagine you're looking at the underside of an oval shaped ufo and you'll see what I mean.
Anyway, this is way too sci-fi for a card game that's supposed to be about casting spells and summoning elves and goblins. I wish wotc would inject more fantasy flavor into the game instead of trying to make everything sleek and more generic.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
They need to get the eff out of here with this junk. Changing the logo was something I was very vocal about disliking. But at the end of the day, it didn’t affect my cards.
But, if they do this, I guarantee that I’ll never buy a new card again. It will all be secondary, classic backed cards for me.
They need to knock it off with all this change. It’s too much, too fast and ALL of it feels unwarranted.
Also, I realize that this is hypothetical so it may seem like I’m overreacting. I’m just saying, something needs to be sacred and the card back is all we have left. This shouldn’t even be a hypothetical.
The won't change the physical card back. That is most likely for Arena. Changing card backs of already distributed cards is incredibly easy in a digital product.
The won't change the physical card back. That is most likely for Arena. Changing card backs of already distributed cards is incredibly easy in a digital product.
I agree with you - this is most likely a change for Arena just like most of their other graphical changes recently like the focus on new borders and special legendary borders.
Having it be this “clean” (see ref. Bland) makes it feel like a base back and would encourage players to seek upgraded, custom card backs as progression rewards.
Still. This doesn’t fit the genre that this game lives in as others have noted
If it's for arena, it gives a cool reward that doesn't impact gameplay and aligns with hearthstones reward system currently (for those who don't know you get a card back for hitting a low threshold and another for the highest threshold in ranked play every season). This can probably be mapped to MTGO cleanly and easily.
For paper the issue revolves around card sleeves and casual play mainly. Dragon shield jet black mattes would protect library information well enough, but ivory sleeves wouldn't be useable.
What is cool/industry standard now may not be cool/standard in 10-20 years. Think about all the awful sci-fi and fantasy artwork from the 80s and early 90s compared to now. The look is totally different. Why wouldn't it change again in another couple decades as millions of artists continue to press the boundaries on mediums, software, composition, or whatever. You open up ancan of worms of when is it right to pull the trigger, and when do you hold off? What signifies you're in a new creative era?
What if they start a new format that uses need card backs as a starting point in paper? One of the cool things about the game are reprints. I love getting to play with my invasion opts in modern and standard now. I've finally been rewarded for holding onto boxes and bins of commons and uncommons over the years. This is a hard step backwards because you're setting up a barrier to using old stock for something that doesn't positively impact gameplay.
Another argument against it is that the majority of competitive play is done in sleeves. Even draft environments tend to be sleeved during coverage level events. Sleeves are marketing for all of the auxiliary goods dealers. This change would remain unseen in anything but draft environments, casual play, or crappy cards littered around the table at an LGS. Why bother doing it?
If they changed the card back, there would be such a wave of salt from the community (including myself) that it's hard to imagine them coming up with a scenario where it's beneficial to them. I don't think they're so out of touch with players as to do something so damaging to the game.
Haven't they said on multiple occasions that there are no plans now or ever to change the back? The day they change it is likely the day I stop buying new cards, and if they do change it, it would be to some crap like this. This fits the fantasy aesthetic like Cookie Monster fits in Star Trek.
There's absolutely ZERO chance they change the card back. WotC has gone so far as keeping the imperfections noticeable on Alpha cards for the last 25 years. There's a better chance of Wizards doing away with the Reserved List before they change the card back. I.E. it ain't gonna happen
Unless WotC decides to reprint every card ever printed and offer a free trade-in program so players can update their older cards, changing the card-back on paper is infeasible.
The only setting where changing the card back only on newer cards would be viable would be the competitive constructed tournament scene, where players are required to have opaque sleeves, and that would be pointless. Not to mention, that still affects casual players.
Hypothetically, they could create a new constructed format that's entirely self-contained from the rest of the MTG card pool so cards with the new back won't get mixed in with the old one, but casual players will do that anyway.
New sleeves are pretty much gonna be the closest we'll get to an updated card-back. I don't mind this, tbh. I'd be interested in seeing a reimagined card-back for every world we visit in standard made into a sleeve.
Not my thing, I prefer the classic look that feel like mythological and ancient vibe rather than something techie if feels like a stars wars and star trek thing.
Yeah it's not changing one of the key aspect of magic is that you can get cards from Alpha and cards from Rivals of Ixalan and they all still "play together" as one game, which gets thrown out the window if the backs don't line up.
They talk about all the time wanting to change the back (brighter logo and no deck master are the two common ones) but they always say they won't do on paper.
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
This will essentially force even casual player's to play with sleeves. Which will almost certainly halt the growth of the game and possibly send it to it's death. Horrible idea to ever change the backs.
Going to keep this in the main Rumor Mill forum because it concerns an actual product release, but the BaseSpec tag has been added to the title to confirm that any talk of a new card back in paper Magic as opposed to customizable backs in Arena is in fact baseless speculation.
I don't particularly care for the card back/sleeve design. It's... forgettable in the same way the Star Trek TCG card back was. No seriously, I can recall the Star Wars card backs but not the Star Trek one even though (quickly checks) it's the fricken logo.
I am adamantly in the camp the original card backs should not change. Change the backs and WotC won't see another dime from me. Period. A different card back constitutes abandonment of the original and creation of an entirely new game. Not rocket science here.
But...
Sleeves like this is unquestionably a nice compromise. We all should sleeve our cards anyways. So why not give the players who want something different well... something different? To be honest, I would encourage more sleeves of this nature. Who knows? Maybe eventually, they might hit upon a design I might have an interest in. Hint: it doesn't have that Planeswalker logo.
Crazy Conspiracy Theory:
Reserved List gets modified, reprint of removed stuff with new card backs; old cards keep their value as collector's items, new stuff is playable in sleeves.
(I'd also prefer no change to physical card backs.)
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
On Blogatog it was mentioned several times in the past years that a new back is something wotc thinks about. So far they obviously did not change it. If this is a "when" or an "if" has to be seen.
Maybe they want to at least test us by showing us this?
I don't even dislike it a lot. Just a little bit. But the thought of having cards with different backs just irritates me.
edited the title, card back not frame ... :/
Going to keep this in the main Rumor Mill forum because it concerns an actual product release, but the BaseSpec tag has been added to the title to confirm that any talk of a new card back in paper Magic as opposed to customizable backs in Arena is in fact baseless speculation.
That said, I think that card back is pretty killer.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Now that DFCs are a thing, it's less impossible than it was before. I still don't think that it's a good move - even the DFCs have "normal" card backs (in the form of checklist cards).
MTG would not be the first card game to change the back. VTES and L5R both went through back changes. VTES was entirely casual, however, and L5R had no "Legacy" format - tournaments were effectively "standard" only.
Anyway, this is way too sci-fi for a card game that's supposed to be about casting spells and summoning elves and goblins. I wish wotc would inject more fantasy flavor into the game instead of trying to make everything sleek and more generic.
-Chandra Nalaar
But, if they do this, I guarantee that I’ll never buy a new card again. It will all be secondary, classic backed cards for me.
They need to knock it off with all this change. It’s too much, too fast and ALL of it feels unwarranted.
Also, I realize that this is hypothetical so it may seem like I’m overreacting. I’m just saying, something needs to be sacred and the card back is all we have left. This shouldn’t even be a hypothetical.
I agree with you - this is most likely a change for Arena just like most of their other graphical changes recently like the focus on new borders and special legendary borders.
Having it be this “clean” (see ref. Bland) makes it feel like a base back and would encourage players to seek upgraded, custom card backs as progression rewards.
Still. This doesn’t fit the genre that this game lives in as others have noted
For us though, in paper? Never, it would be a terrible idea.
Spirits
Well we know the problem that's being solved - "How do we encourage Arena players to use the card backs they buy or unlock?"
I know the Arena back I want.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
For paper the issue revolves around card sleeves and casual play mainly. Dragon shield jet black mattes would protect library information well enough, but ivory sleeves wouldn't be useable.
What is cool/industry standard now may not be cool/standard in 10-20 years. Think about all the awful sci-fi and fantasy artwork from the 80s and early 90s compared to now. The look is totally different. Why wouldn't it change again in another couple decades as millions of artists continue to press the boundaries on mediums, software, composition, or whatever. You open up ancan of worms of when is it right to pull the trigger, and when do you hold off? What signifies you're in a new creative era?
What if they start a new format that uses need card backs as a starting point in paper? One of the cool things about the game are reprints. I love getting to play with my invasion opts in modern and standard now. I've finally been rewarded for holding onto boxes and bins of commons and uncommons over the years. This is a hard step backwards because you're setting up a barrier to using old stock for something that doesn't positively impact gameplay.
Another argument against it is that the majority of competitive play is done in sleeves. Even draft environments tend to be sleeved during coverage level events. Sleeves are marketing for all of the auxiliary goods dealers. This change would remain unseen in anything but draft environments, casual play, or crappy cards littered around the table at an LGS. Why bother doing it?
Haven't they said on multiple occasions that there are no plans now or ever to change the back? The day they change it is likely the day I stop buying new cards, and if they do change it, it would be to some crap like this. This fits the fantasy aesthetic like Cookie Monster fits in Star Trek.
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By what I. Reading this is a card sleeve
The only setting where changing the card back only on newer cards would be viable would be the competitive constructed tournament scene, where players are required to have opaque sleeves, and that would be pointless. Not to mention, that still affects casual players.
Hypothetically, they could create a new constructed format that's entirely self-contained from the rest of the MTG card pool so cards with the new back won't get mixed in with the old one, but casual players will do that anyway.
New sleeves are pretty much gonna be the closest we'll get to an updated card-back. I don't mind this, tbh. I'd be interested in seeing a reimagined card-back for every world we visit in standard made into a sleeve.
They talk about all the time wanting to change the back (brighter logo and no deck master are the two common ones) but they always say they won't do on paper.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I am adamantly in the camp the original card backs should not change. Change the backs and WotC won't see another dime from me. Period. A different card back constitutes abandonment of the original and creation of an entirely new game. Not rocket science here.
But...
Sleeves like this is unquestionably a nice compromise. We all should sleeve our cards anyways. So why not give the players who want something different well... something different? To be honest, I would encourage more sleeves of this nature. Who knows? Maybe eventually, they might hit upon a design I might have an interest in. Hint: it doesn't have that Planeswalker logo.
Reserved List gets modified, reprint of removed stuff with new card backs; old cards keep their value as collector's items, new stuff is playable in sleeves.
(I'd also prefer no change to physical card backs.)
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Magic is yellow (the way it should be) and Deck Master is removed.
This new design looks way too futuristic and slick. Awesome for a new game but terrible for Magic.