Comparing two cards with completely different mana costs.
Stay free MTGsalvation.
I'm not saying this card is amazing, but it's standard playable. But comparing it to another card that is 100% different and has a completely different cost of mana, like really? You must be new.
I like him, and maybe because he's more of a casual walker. I think he could have used some work, but it's too late for it now. I suppose he could see standard play, but other than that, he looks like a cheap walker to me. I'll take a few!
3 Abilities. The first is card filter which is a fine utility. During game 1 in your Ux Control deck it will be nice to bin those Kill spells in the mirror match or to help dig and find X utility spell.
Jace's second ability protects himself. And not only that but it puts him only down to 4 on turn 4, not 3. It means they HAVE to be above the curve to kill jace or be ON curve and waste a pump spell/burn card. And what's nice is that he bounces OTHER planeswalkers, opposing equipment or enchantments and overall bouncing a permanent should NEVER be underestimated. It steals games.
Finally, the ultimate is nothing to look down at. It might be reset the game but it's pretty close. In a control mirror or midrange vs. control matchup it's as good as a reset.
Jace will see play. That's for sure.
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"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
If a card doesn't scream "busted" the first time you see it you can be sure most MTGS posters will simply dismiss it
Until it shows up somewhere and the classic netdeck crowd acts like it knows how to evaluate cards
I retract "this card is awesome" but I do think it had the potential to be quite good
Obviously it's absolutely awful against aggro unlike Architect of Thought but that's a good thing
I love how people think that saying "it's not as good as Architect of Thought" indicates anything other than the fact that they are bad at evaluating card
It's a different Jace so it will play differently people!
Regardless if this Jace is good or not, this version of him is hands down the most boring version Ive ever seen. When I think of Jace, I think of playing him and it completely destroying my opponent. This does not do any of that what so ever.
This would be more reasonable at 3 mana. At 4 mana its pretty awful since the effects you get dont do very much. This makes Kiora look like the real Jace at this point. I dont think its going to be too good. Mono U Devotion has cheaper and more efficient cards atm and come rotation when Mono U dies this will get even worse. I dont see any reasonable control deck playing this over the other jaces unless their not trying to ever win.
Comparing two cards with completely different mana costs.
Stay free MTGsalvation.
I'm not saying this card is amazing, but it's standard playable. But comparing it to another card that is 100% different and has a completely different cost of mana, like really? You must be new.
So 2UG is completely different then 2UU? I agree they are not the same but pretty damn close. Also, they are very similar cards.
I don't like him, but I think he will actually see play. He doesn't provide immediate card advantage, but in a pinch he can at least remove a non-hasty threat for a turn and he puts pressure on the opponent by filtering your draws and quickly ticking up towards ultimate card advantage. Even better if he gets a good wall to hide behind. I think it will depend on if control gets replacements for Supreme Verdict and the like.
The closest mechanical comparison for this card is Vraska the Unseen: a +1 that doesn't affect the board, a -3 that removes something from the board, a four-turn clock on the ultimate doing anything, and 5 starting loyalty. Vraska's -3 is vastly superior, but she's more expensive (and in different colors), her ultimate is arguably worse, and while she protects herself way better than Jace with her +1, it also does nothing else - whereas scry-looting can fix draws/do something to your graveyard.
I suspect this Jace will be a roleplayer in Standard, just like Vraska was.
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Comparing two cards with completely different mana costs.
Stay free MTGsalvation.
I'm not saying this card is amazing, but it's standard playable. But comparing it to another card that is 100% different and has a completely different cost of mana, like really? You must be new.
It is being compared to the slot it is going to have to compete against in an upcoming Standard format, where UG is a very REAL color combination. This guy is an enabler for tricks that simply do not yet exist, which in current context makes him unplayable. Starting with 5 Loyalty and ticking up for +1 each turn is really only relevant in the event the game is slow enough to support it without showing diminishing returns on his activation, which adds up quickly when he cannot tick up to recover from an attack nor replace himself with a card - and tops it all off with having to throw things into your own GY from the top of your deck, which is worse than a real scry trigger.
Unless some crazy tricks find themselves in Standard which can play well with his +1, this guy is terrible and you cannot judge a card in context of what the format may or may not have printed to support it.
I can forgive Nissa Revane and Chandra Ablaze (and on the opposite end of the suck spectrum JtMS) as failures because they were way back in Zendikar block.
Since then r&d has had time to better develop PW's, and with the exception of Tibalt, they've done well.
But suddenly we get Gideon, Champion of Justice, and now this?
I could look past the lackluster abilities, and while I mean this as no disrespect to the illustrator, this artwork looks better suited for some kind of non-legal promotional convention card then it does for a core set.
Excellent in UX reanimator and high loyalty can be extremely annoying in a lot of circumstances. Between him and Kiora it feels like they're giving reachable ultimates a try. Curious to see how he'll end up.
If a card doesn't scream "busted" the first time you see it you can be sure most MTGS posters will simply dismiss it
Until it shows up somewhere and the classic netdeck crowd acts like it knows how to evaluate cards
I retract "this card is awesome" but I do think it had the potential to be quite good
Obviously it's absolutely awful against aggro unlike Architect of Thought but that's a good thing
I agree that it has potential and will see Standard play. I just don't think that it is on the level of any of the previous Jaces.
That's a good thing and let's not forget that there's an entire set of cards that will be released alongside this one
If someone thinks this card won't be good enough for Standard without having seen all the cards in M15, the three Tarkir sets, M16 and the next block then that person is either
-very new at the game, which is fine, we all started there
-have no idea idea what they are talking about
Comparing two cards with completely different mana costs.
Stay free MTGsalvation.
I'm not saying this card is amazing, but it's standard playable. But comparing it to another card that is 100% different and has a completely different cost of mana, like really? You must be new.
So 2UG is completely different then 2UU? I agree they are not the same but pretty damn close. Also, they are very similar cards.
2UG AND 2UU Are not even close to the same. How is this even a discussion?
I'm just saying, this card is fine and will be played. The posts in this thread are absolutely laughable.
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Comparing two cards with completely different mana costs.
Stay free MTGsalvation.
I'm not saying this card is amazing, but it's standard playable. But comparing it to another card that is 100% different and has a completely different cost of mana, like really? You must be new.
It's Chandra, Architect of Thought!
Uh ... wait.
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
Mizzix Of The Izmagnus : wheels on fire... rolling down the road...
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
Every card can be casual playable. That means nothing.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
2UU - Loyality is 6 with an activation.
3 Abilities. The first is card filter which is a fine utility. During game 1 in your Ux Control deck it will be nice to bin those Kill spells in the mirror match or to help dig and find X utility spell.
Jace's second ability protects himself. And not only that but it puts him only down to 4 on turn 4, not 3. It means they HAVE to be above the curve to kill jace or be ON curve and waste a pump spell/burn card. And what's nice is that he bounces OTHER planeswalkers, opposing equipment or enchantments and overall bouncing a permanent should NEVER be underestimated. It steals games.
Finally, the ultimate is nothing to look down at. It might be reset the game but it's pretty close. In a control mirror or midrange vs. control matchup it's as good as a reset.
Jace will see play. That's for sure.
If a card doesn't scream "busted" the first time you see it you can be sure most MTGS posters will simply dismiss it
Until it shows up somewhere and the classic netdeck crowd acts like it knows how to evaluate cards
I retract "this card is awesome" but I do think it had the potential to be quite good
Obviously it's absolutely awful against aggro unlike Architect of Thought but that's a good thing
I love how people think that saying "it's not as good as Architect of Thought" indicates anything other than the fact that they are bad at evaluating card
It's a different Jace so it will play differently people!
This would be more reasonable at 3 mana. At 4 mana its pretty awful since the effects you get dont do very much. This makes Kiora look like the real Jace at this point. I dont think its going to be too good. Mono U Devotion has cheaper and more efficient cards atm and come rotation when Mono U dies this will get even worse. I dont see any reasonable control deck playing this over the other jaces unless their not trying to ever win.
So 2UG is completely different then 2UU? I agree they are not the same but pretty damn close. Also, they are very similar cards.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
Feel free to tell me yours!
Considering his track record, this is still probably stronger than Jace deserves.
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(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
I suspect this Jace will be a roleplayer in Standard, just like Vraska was.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
I agree that it has potential and will see Standard play. I just don't think that it is on the level of any of the previous Jaces.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It is being compared to the slot it is going to have to compete against in an upcoming Standard format, where UG is a very REAL color combination. This guy is an enabler for tricks that simply do not yet exist, which in current context makes him unplayable. Starting with 5 Loyalty and ticking up for +1 each turn is really only relevant in the event the game is slow enough to support it without showing diminishing returns on his activation, which adds up quickly when he cannot tick up to recover from an attack nor replace himself with a card - and tops it all off with having to throw things into your own GY from the top of your deck, which is worse than a real scry trigger.
Unless some crazy tricks find themselves in Standard which can play well with his +1, this guy is terrible and you cannot judge a card in context of what the format may or may not have printed to support it.
You obviously are not a limited player then.
I do not sign 5yr+ old cards. Please do not pm me for this.
Since then r&d has had time to better develop PW's, and with the exception of Tibalt, they've done well.
But suddenly we get Gideon, Champion of Justice, and now this?
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
That's a good thing and let's not forget that there's an entire set of cards that will be released alongside this one
If someone thinks this card won't be good enough for Standard without having seen all the cards in M15, the three Tarkir sets, M16 and the next block then that person is either
-very new at the game, which is fine, we all started there
-have no idea idea what they are talking about
2UG AND 2UU Are not even close to the same. How is this even a discussion?
I'm just saying, this card is fine and will be played. The posts in this thread are absolutely laughable.