Personally I wouldn't play it, I haven't seen enough cards and don't have any cards that I would put in a deck to justify playing him...I mean maybe as a planeswalker in a mill for a 'oh ***** I am getting screwed' turn around card but to me with what I have seen and know of the cards I don't feel he'll see a TON of play, maybe in modern in a blue black zombie deck with the Skaabs? I don't feel he's bad but he's not at all what I was thinking we'd get out of a Jace this time around...I mean, if we even go off the set's main story of it likely going to come down to Jace VS cursed Garruk, this Jace doesn't seem...well...capable. Anyways, overall I am disappointed in the planeswalker as I see no way with the cards I know from magic that this PW would be placed in as much as another Jace. Maybe Khans or the Tarkir block will change this...but right now he feels weak, very weak...and the worst of all the planeswalkers so far.
I find this Jace to be remarkably unremarkable. He certainly isn't the worst Planewalker ever, but he's not very exciting either. I'll tell you what is remarkable though, how excited and rude people in the spoiler sections can get. Who cares if someone is bad at evaluating a card? It is certainly ok to post a counterpoint to someone's opinion, but telling people they "know nothing", or "must be new", etc. is just plain rude. Show some civility people!
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I have a bunch of gripes with this card. JtLG was not as good as he could've been.
1. The card is a 4 drop planeswalker that comes in with 5 loyalty. It's expecting itself not to be good, so it tries to make up for it with high loyalty.
2. The +1 didn't have to be so terrible. The ability could've just been Scry 2 draw a card at best, at worst it should've been to look at the top two cards of your library, put one at the bottom the other into your hand.
3. If the -3 is gonna be bounce a nonland permanent, it could've at least had what I said above attached to it. Bouncing for -3 on this specific card is atrocious, the cost should've been a -2 to make up for it's lack of actual card filtering. Otherwise, -3 to bounce any target permanent (including itself) if that's what we're gonna be stuck with.
4. The -8 isn't that bad however. Reading it carefully, it says each player shuffles their hand, and only you draw. Giving the opponent no hand is always useful, especially in a blue shell. This card will attempted to be played for the -8, however if it has a -3 it's never going to be able to protect itself long enough to get there, and since its +1 is essentially useless, it's too counterproductive to get to that -8.
Overall: I would play Tibalt before I played this card. As badly as I want that -8, the +1 is a potential drawback, and the -3 is underwhelming at best. It was indeed a swing and a miss.
I didn't play AVR, so I looked up Tibalt to refresh my memory since people were comparing this Jace to Tibalt.
Holy smokes, what a terribad card. I would probably not even play it in limited.
I think my bona fides as a harsh critic of this Jace are well-established, but come on, its not THAT bad. Tibalt keeps his crown as the presumed king of terrible planeswalkers. I don't think this Jace will be played in standard, but he's a lot better than Tibalt.
This is just a bad mythic. Not even sure its any good in limited, seriously. an ok version would have been slight of hand, -2 to bounce and then the actual ultimate. Have the Loayalty at 4 instead of five and just those slight changes make it a playable walker. There is already a Jace that puts stuff in your graveyard and at a better rate. Bounceing is a tempo play and for -3 you need to be doing something dang good. As many have said the ulitmate is good but how do you get there? I think the new Ajani and Nissa are fun and powerful this is just aweful.
(Both would have been really nice, but probably too pushed.)
As it is, this Jace is just too bad to make the cut for any decent constructed deck.
And no, it isn't completely meta-dependent. Some things stay the same, and those things dictate that this card in underpowered.
(And have people arguing that it could enable a GY strategy actually ever played the game of Magic the Gathering? Putting one card per turn into the GY does NOT enable a GY strategy. Sorry.)
Here's the card I wish they would have made:
Jace, the Hair-Gel Commercial 2UUU
+1: Look at top two cards of your library, put one in your hand and one at the bottom of your library.
-2: Bounce target permanent.
-8: Same
Powerful but not overly oppressive, with a concomitantly demanding cost.
Yes, you are. People always have trouble seeing their own flaws.
Bad cards that don't do anything interesting or fun and will never see competitive play serve no purpose...
Really.... Really? No purpose? Wow how arrogant...
As usual people think magic cards should ONLY be designed for their chosen type of play, i.e. constructed/limited/etc... /facepalm. Not every card is made for you and your playstyle, that doesn't make it a bad card except in context. Luckily there are other types of magic players who can actually enjoy a card like this. So no maybe this Jace isn't good enough for you to play competitively, that doesn't make it a bad card.
Now go ahead and try to justify your opinion, it really doesn't matter or change this fact.
His strength lies not in the abilities themselves, but the option to end his first turn on the battlefield with 6 loyalty counters, which isn't something we've ever seen on a 4 mana planeswalker (Gideon notwithstanding). Ashiok managed to overcome a relative lack of strength in abilities by having a large disparity between first-turn loyalty and converted mana cost. That's where most people are missing the point (and it's where most people missed the point with Ashiok). The card selection ability, although worse than any Jace card draw ability, is not objectively terrible. You'll burn through mana clumps quicker than you would without him. It's useful. And the -3 is useful too. The strength is the starting loyalty for sure. He's hard to attack and is likely to be ignored, where he'll tick upwards while simultaneously filtering through your deck, ultimate ever-looming.
In the current Standard he is rather overshadowed by Architect of Thought, but future Standard will make good use of him 100%.
OK, I've identified clearly what's wrong with this Jace.
Different PW's have different emphases on the ultimates. For some it is more important, for some less.
For this Jace, the ult is relatively important because the first two abilities are not that great, and because of the high starting loyalty.
But, given that, the second ability should be -2 instead of -3. For this particular PW, who is geared more than most at ultimating, using the bounce effect means you will realistically never ultimate. That's why he's bad.
The middle ability should have been -2. Then it would be appropriately balanced.
I wonder what people beeing so harsh with the new Jace will say if (or when?) it will start to appear on tournament lists... I suspect many will instantly change their minds, because critical sensibility works like that these days...
soo true
I remenber picking some Jace AoT after DGM comed out for +- $8 each and then trading the ones i had in my binders for like $ 16 each...
Who cares if someone is bad at evaluating a card? It is certainly ok to post a counterpoint to someone's opinion, but telling people they "know nothing", or "must be new", etc. is just plain rude. Show some civility people!
You can only be polite so many times, the people who are attempting to mentor in a polite fashion just get curb stomped by the "newer" player attitudes claiming they "know it all"
Here are some ridiculous comments made in this thread so far that I have read;
1. That this card is Modern Playable - My response; they never read Cryptic Command
2. This card is a house in Standard - My response; 4 Mana Boomerang doesn't make the cut, look how pushed Chandra, Pyromaster was, and it barely sees constructed play.
3. This card wins the game in 4 turns - My response; only if your board presence dictates as such, and also, this Jace won't help you accomplish that, it can only bounce so many times with such a high loyalty cost.
It's as if people forgot that people will play turn three Stormbreath Dragons. Not to mention the plethora of other problems; Thoughtseizes, Elspeth, Eidolon of the Great Revel and Polukranos are all in this format even after rotation.Hero's Downfall isn't leaving the format anytime soon. We even have Courser of Kruphix which has been super difficult to deal with lately. This card would only be good if Hurloon Minotaur was the best creature in the format. Now that we have Soul of X creature cycle coming in, and Nykthos is just waiting in the background to be a completely busted card this coming rotation, there is no room for Jace, Living Guildpact.
My favorite part is "another target nonland permanent,"
As if it would be remotely broken to cast this turd, +1 him,
then have him bounce himself the next round (if he takes no damage).
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I love it. People are so ready to state absolutes, like they "know" he won't see play.
The reality of it is more flexible. He might see play. He has the hallmarks of a decent 'walker. He's not even that bad, when considered in a vacuum.
But the important thing to consider is whether he'll fit in a deck. Worse planeswalkers have been played even in pro tours and world championships because there was a niche for them. Even big ol' mind sculptor would have seen zero play if there simply wasn't a deck for him to fit into.
Also, i see people contradicting themselves here a lot. In the same sentence you say it won't see modern play because cryptic command exists, and then without a pause you say 4 Mana bounce is bad... I mean jeez do you think before you write? The power of planeswalkers doesn't come from their initial impact (although it helps, obviously) it comes from their cumulative effect on the game. Mind sculptor was OFTEN just a 4 Mana bounce spell. Cryptic is also often a 4 Mana bounce spell. The reason they are good is because they either stick around afterwards or do something else. New jace does this.
I mean jeez what's with the shockingly bad card evaluation in this thread? You guys play this game, right? You didn't just learn the rules and then just sit at your keyboard theorycrafting on an online forum without ever playing a game... Right?
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I love it. People are so ready to state absolutes, like they "know" he won't see play.
The reality of it is more flexible. He might see play. He has the hallmarks of a decent 'walker. He's not even that bad, when considered in a vacuum.
But the important thing to consider is whether he'll fit in a deck. Worse planeswalkers have been played even in pro tours and world championships because there was a niche for them. Even big ol' mind sculptor would have seen zero play if there simply wasn't a deck for him to fit into.
Also, i see people contradicting themselves here a lot. In the same sentence you say it won't see modern play because cryptic command exists, and then without a pause you say 4 Mana bounce is bad... I mean jeez do you think before you write? The power of planeswalkers doesn't come from their initial impact (although it helps, obviously) it comes from their cumulative effect on the game. Mind sculptor was OFTEN just a 4 Mana bounce spell. Cryptic is also often a 4 Mana bounce spell. The reason they are good is because they either stick around afterwards or do something else. New jace does this.
I mean jeez what's with the shockingly bad card evaluation in this thread? You guys play this game, right? You didn't just learn the rules and then just sit at your keyboard theorycrafting on an online forum without ever playing a game... Right?
Trust me, I want the new Jace to be playable too. I'm going to throw him in every single brew deck I will make and they will all fail miserably, but I will have known how he did. The contradictory lies within your own statement,
Mind sculptor was OFTEN just a 4 Mana bounce spell. Cryptic is also often a 4 Mana bounce spell. The reason they are good is because they either stick around afterwards or do something else. New jace does this.
The fact of the matter is, Jace simply does not do this. After you dropped Jace to bounce your opponent's already swung Stormbreath or +1'd Elspeth (Implying you get the chance to against that Elspeth) can he: Provide card advantage? The answer is not at all. He has potential to provide card disadvantage actually.
Say you +1 him the turn after he somehow lived after the -3 bounce. The top two cards are Elspeth and a Dissolve to keep her alive. You dropped the dissolve, and play Elspeth only to have her countered with 3 mana open. The card disadvantage gained caused your win condition to not be playable as it would previously had been. You don't even get to draw the card which you had opted not to mill, therefore possibly playing her on that turn your opponent might have tapped out on to put the threat back out. This card is highly unplayable in most regards, even in sealed. Similarly to Tibalt, planeswakers should be able to function alone, not have to be built around.
Fun fact, This Jace is starting at a lower price on starcity than Tibalt did. Tibalt was actually like 25$ for like a week, this jace is only 20, and he is gonna drop like its hot. but I like the art
another funny side note, the chandra is better than the jace in this set, lol.
Since this brought up frequently: The fact that this Jace has a high starting loyalty does not make reaching the ultimate anymore feasible than on any other planeswalker. The only important variable (next to "What does the +1 do?") is the difference between the ultimate cost and the starting loyalty, and this is the same for Jace, Kiora, Xenagos, Chandra and Ral Zarek. The only difference is that when Kiora gets Lightning Striked, you have a 0% chance of reaching the ultimate this game, while on Jace you still have a 0.1% chance. I've tested a CMC 4 planeswalker with five starting loyalty and an ultimate at 8 myself, and in the games I've never ultimated it once.
Fun fact, This Jace is starting at a lower price on starcity than Tibalt did. Tibalt was actually like 25$ for like a week, this jace is only 20, and he is gonna drop like its hot. but I like the art
another funny side note, the chandra is better than the jace in this set, lol.
Its like a Chaos Maelstrom, everything is mixed up.
Who would guess like 2 years ago that Chandra would ever be better than Jace ?
I love it. People are so ready to state absolutes, like they "know" he won't see play.
The reality of it is more flexible. He might see play. He has the hallmarks of a decent 'walker. He's not even that bad, when considered in a vacuum.
But the important thing to consider is whether he'll fit in a deck. Worse planeswalkers have been played even in pro tours and world championships because there was a niche for them. Even big ol' mind sculptor would have seen zero play if there simply wasn't a deck for him to fit into.
Also, i see people contradicting themselves here a lot. In the same sentence you say it won't see modern play because cryptic command exists, and then without a pause you say 4 Mana bounce is bad... I mean jeez do you think before you write? The power of planeswalkers doesn't come from their initial impact (although it helps, obviously) it comes from their cumulative effect on the game. Mind sculptor was OFTEN just a 4 Mana bounce spell. Cryptic is also often a 4 Mana bounce spell. The reason they are good is because they either stick around afterwards or do something else. New jace does this.
I mean jeez what's with the shockingly bad card evaluation in this thread? You guys play this game, right? You didn't just learn the rules and then just sit at your keyboard theorycrafting on an online forum without ever playing a game... Right?
Comparing this to cryptic command is embarrassing. Cryptic is played because it does everything you need to do there is almost no situation in modern that cryptic cannot help get you out of. If crypic said 4 mana bounce a thing it would not be played. Furthermore cryptic is an instant not a sorcery which is huge you can bounce in response to a twin or a kiki jiki activation. You can bounce melira in response to a persist trigger. You can bounce your own creature in response to a removal spell to save it.
Say you +1 him the turn after he somehow lived after the -3 bounce. The top two cards are Elspeth and a Dissolve to keep her alive. You dropped the dissolve, and play Elspeth only to have her countered with 3 mana open. The card disadvantage gained caused your win condition to not be playable as it would previously had been. You don't even get to draw the card which you had opted not to mill, therefore possibly playing her on that turn your opponent might have tapped out on to put the threat back out. This card is highly unplayable in most regards, even in sealed. Similarly to Tibalt, planeswakers should be able to function alone, not have to be built around.
That's not how card advantage works. At all.
If I mill my opponent, I'm not "up" any cards at all; if you mill your disolve, you're not down any cards or up any cards. Some cards are different zones, but there is no card advantage for either player.
Say you +1 him the turn after he somehow lived after the -3 bounce. The top two cards are Elspeth and a Dissolve to keep her alive. You dropped the dissolve, and play Elspeth only to have her countered with 3 mana open. The card disadvantage gained caused your win condition to not be playable as it would previously had been. You don't even get to draw the card which you had opted not to mill, therefore possibly playing her on that turn your opponent might have tapped out on to put the threat back out. This card is highly unplayable in most regards, even in sealed. Similarly to Tibalt, planeswakers should be able to function alone, not have to be built around.
That's not how card advantage works. At all.
If I mill my opponent, I'm not "up" any cards at all; if you mill your disolve, you're not down any cards or up any cards. Some cards are different zones, but there is no card advantage for either player.
You're misunderstanding, I'm not talking about milling in and of itself. Allow me to clarify.
By causing yourself to send your Dissolve to the graveyard through this Jace's +1, you are essentially creating resource imbalance, a form of "Card Advantage" generally tasked unto the opponent but not in this case. In simplest terms: The "Card Advantage" was having the Dissolve available next draw (i.e. more cards) , and the disadvantage was sending it into the graveyard to be not played (i.e. less cards). Think of this as discarding a card rather than milling. Imagine scrying a card to the top to have it get Codex Shreddered by surprise next turn. You've lost something more important consciously and the other player knows that, as if he had made you discard a card.
Are you really quoting statistical odds of a planeswalker surviving without even mentioning the format, or the decks you are using and playing against? Really? And we are suppose to regard your "0.1%" chance with any validity? There is a 100% chance you made up the stats.
Yes, you are. People always have trouble seeing their own flaws.
Bad cards that don't do anything interesting or fun and will never see competitive play serve no purpose...
Really.... Really? No purpose? Wow how arrogant...
As usual people think magic cards should ONLY be designed for their chosen type of play, i.e. constructed/limited/etc... /facepalm. Not every card is made for you and your playstyle, that doesn't make it a bad card except in context. Luckily there are other types of magic players who can actually enjoy a card like this. So no maybe this Jace isn't good enough for you to play competitively, that doesn't make it a bad card.
Now go ahead and try to justify your opinion, it really doesn't matter or change this fact.
Again, he's bad in every archetype, bad in every format and doesn't do anything even remotely interesting or "fun". He's about as tame and low impact as any PWer ever. What do you want to do with him? Do you just enjoy being bad?
Are you really quoting statistical odds of a planeswalker surviving without even mentioning the format, or the decks you are using and playing against? Really? And we are suppose to regard your "0.1%" chance with any validity? There is a 100% chance you made up the stats.
I did not quote the statistical odds of a planeswalker surviving and it is quite obvious that the "0.1%" is meant as "above 0%, but insignificantly small" in the context of the argument. Your reply doesn't make any sense at all, so please make sure you understand what my argument is before becoming confrontational.
1. The card is a 4 drop planeswalker that comes in with 5 loyalty. It's expecting itself not to be good, so it tries to make up for it with high loyalty.
2. The +1 didn't have to be so terrible. The ability could've just been Scry 2 draw a card at best, at worst it should've been to look at the top two cards of your library, put one at the bottom the other into your hand.
3. If the -3 is gonna be bounce a nonland permanent, it could've at least had what I said above attached to it. Bouncing for -3 on this specific card is atrocious, the cost should've been a -2 to make up for it's lack of actual card filtering. Otherwise, -3 to bounce any target permanent (including itself) if that's what we're gonna be stuck with.
4. The -8 isn't that bad however. Reading it carefully, it says each player shuffles their hand, and only you draw. Giving the opponent no hand is always useful, especially in a blue shell. This card will attempted to be played for the -8, however if it has a -3 it's never going to be able to protect itself long enough to get there, and since its +1 is essentially useless, it's too counterproductive to get to that -8.
Overall: I would play Tibalt before I played this card. As badly as I want that -8, the +1 is a potential drawback, and the -3 is underwhelming at best. It was indeed a swing and a miss.
An enigma as vexing as life itself.
Holy smokes, what a terribad card. I would probably not even play it in limited.
I think my bona fides as a harsh critic of this Jace are well-established, but come on, its not THAT bad. Tibalt keeps his crown as the presumed king of terrible planeswalkers. I don't think this Jace will be played in standard, but he's a lot better than Tibalt.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/360-bitterblossom-and-mistbind-clique-looking-to-trade
Or
Second ability should have been -2.
(Both would have been really nice, but probably too pushed.)
As it is, this Jace is just too bad to make the cut for any decent constructed deck.
And no, it isn't completely meta-dependent. Some things stay the same, and those things dictate that this card in underpowered.
(And have people arguing that it could enable a GY strategy actually ever played the game of Magic the Gathering? Putting one card per turn into the GY does NOT enable a GY strategy. Sorry.)
Here's the card I wish they would have made:
Jace, the Hair-Gel Commercial
2UUU
+1: Look at top two cards of your library, put one in your hand and one at the bottom of your library.
-2: Bounce target permanent.
-8: Same
Powerful but not overly oppressive, with a concomitantly demanding cost.
Really.... Really? No purpose? Wow how arrogant...
As usual people think magic cards should ONLY be designed for their chosen type of play, i.e. constructed/limited/etc... /facepalm. Not every card is made for you and your playstyle, that doesn't make it a bad card except in context. Luckily there are other types of magic players who can actually enjoy a card like this. So no maybe this Jace isn't good enough for you to play competitively, that doesn't make it a bad card.
Now go ahead and try to justify your opinion, it really doesn't matter or change this fact.
In the current Standard he is rather overshadowed by Architect of Thought, but future Standard will make good use of him 100%.
OK, I've identified clearly what's wrong with this Jace.
Different PW's have different emphases on the ultimates. For some it is more important, for some less.
For this Jace, the ult is relatively important because the first two abilities are not that great, and because of the high starting loyalty.
But, given that, the second ability should be -2 instead of -3. For this particular PW, who is geared more than most at ultimating, using the bounce effect means you will realistically never ultimate. That's why he's bad.
The middle ability should have been -2. Then it would be appropriately balanced.
soo true
I remenber picking some Jace AoT after DGM comed out for +- $8 each and then trading the ones i had in my binders for like $ 16 each...
If Khans of Tarkir are to suggest a battlecruiser, "going wide" strategy, then Jace is gonna struggle every single time.
At best? Niche sb card.
The Elixir of Immortality Walker. All hail the great Durdleness.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
You can only be polite so many times, the people who are attempting to mentor in a polite fashion just get curb stomped by the "newer" player attitudes claiming they "know it all"
Here are some ridiculous comments made in this thread so far that I have read;
1. That this card is Modern Playable - My response; they never read Cryptic Command
2. This card is a house in Standard - My response; 4 Mana Boomerang doesn't make the cut, look how pushed Chandra, Pyromaster was, and it barely sees constructed play.
3. This card wins the game in 4 turns - My response; only if your board presence dictates as such, and also, this Jace won't help you accomplish that, it can only bounce so many times with such a high loyalty cost.
It's as if people forgot that people will play turn three Stormbreath Dragons. Not to mention the plethora of other problems; Thoughtseizes, Elspeth, Eidolon of the Great Revel and Polukranos are all in this format even after rotation. Hero's Downfall isn't leaving the format anytime soon. We even have Courser of Kruphix which has been super difficult to deal with lately. This card would only be good if Hurloon Minotaur was the best creature in the format. Now that we have Soul of X creature cycle coming in, and Nykthos is just waiting in the background to be a completely busted card this coming rotation, there is no room for Jace, Living Guildpact.
As if it would be remotely broken to cast this turd, +1 him,
then have him bounce himself the next round (if he takes no damage).
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
The reality of it is more flexible. He might see play. He has the hallmarks of a decent 'walker. He's not even that bad, when considered in a vacuum.
But the important thing to consider is whether he'll fit in a deck. Worse planeswalkers have been played even in pro tours and world championships because there was a niche for them. Even big ol' mind sculptor would have seen zero play if there simply wasn't a deck for him to fit into.
Also, i see people contradicting themselves here a lot. In the same sentence you say it won't see modern play because cryptic command exists, and then without a pause you say 4 Mana bounce is bad... I mean jeez do you think before you write? The power of planeswalkers doesn't come from their initial impact (although it helps, obviously) it comes from their cumulative effect on the game. Mind sculptor was OFTEN just a 4 Mana bounce spell. Cryptic is also often a 4 Mana bounce spell. The reason they are good is because they either stick around afterwards or do something else. New jace does this.
I mean jeez what's with the shockingly bad card evaluation in this thread? You guys play this game, right? You didn't just learn the rules and then just sit at your keyboard theorycrafting on an online forum without ever playing a game... Right?
Trust me, I want the new Jace to be playable too. I'm going to throw him in every single brew deck I will make and they will all fail miserably, but I will have known how he did. The contradictory lies within your own statement,
The fact of the matter is, Jace simply does not do this. After you dropped Jace to bounce your opponent's already swung Stormbreath or +1'd Elspeth (Implying you get the chance to against that Elspeth) can he: Provide card advantage? The answer is not at all. He has potential to provide card disadvantage actually.
Say you +1 him the turn after he somehow lived after the -3 bounce. The top two cards are Elspeth and a Dissolve to keep her alive. You dropped the dissolve, and play Elspeth only to have her countered with 3 mana open. The card disadvantage gained caused your win condition to not be playable as it would previously had been. You don't even get to draw the card which you had opted not to mill, therefore possibly playing her on that turn your opponent might have tapped out on to put the threat back out. This card is highly unplayable in most regards, even in sealed. Similarly to Tibalt, planeswakers should be able to function alone, not have to be built around.
An enigma as vexing as life itself.
another funny side note, the chandra is better than the jace in this set, lol.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!
Its like a Chaos Maelstrom, everything is mixed up.
Who would guess like 2 years ago that Chandra would ever be better than Jace ?
Yea, nobody.
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Comparing this to cryptic command is embarrassing. Cryptic is played because it does everything you need to do there is almost no situation in modern that cryptic cannot help get you out of. If crypic said 4 mana bounce a thing it would not be played. Furthermore cryptic is an instant not a sorcery which is huge you can bounce in response to a twin or a kiki jiki activation. You can bounce melira in response to a persist trigger. You can bounce your own creature in response to a removal spell to save it.
That's not how card advantage works. At all.
If I mill my opponent, I'm not "up" any cards at all; if you mill your disolve, you're not down any cards or up any cards. Some cards are different zones, but there is no card advantage for either player.
You're misunderstanding, I'm not talking about milling in and of itself. Allow me to clarify.
By causing yourself to send your Dissolve to the graveyard through this Jace's +1, you are essentially creating resource imbalance, a form of "Card Advantage" generally tasked unto the opponent but not in this case. In simplest terms: The "Card Advantage" was having the Dissolve available next draw (i.e. more cards) , and the disadvantage was sending it into the graveyard to be not played (i.e. less cards). Think of this as discarding a card rather than milling. Imagine scrying a card to the top to have it get Codex Shreddered by surprise next turn. You've lost something more important consciously and the other player knows that, as if he had made you discard a card.
An enigma as vexing as life itself.
Again, he's bad in every archetype, bad in every format and doesn't do anything even remotely interesting or "fun". He's about as tame and low impact as any PWer ever. What do you want to do with him? Do you just enjoy being bad?
I did not quote the statistical odds of a planeswalker surviving and it is quite obvious that the "0.1%" is meant as "above 0%, but insignificantly small" in the context of the argument. Your reply doesn't make any sense at all, so please make sure you understand what my argument is before becoming confrontational.
Really!
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
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