MTG Salvation

I'm not that clued up on the reserve list compared to other people but could someone explain why they can't just make fuctional reprints ? Different name / same effect.

Quote from Landrid

I'm not that clued up on the reserve list compared to other people but could someone explain why they can't just make fuctional reprints ? Different name / same effect.

Just as a function of a court case that they are not allowed to discuss or even admit exists.

Quote from Uninvited Ghost

They totally can. It's not a law, or a contract, or anything. It's a policy. Like "smiles are free". McDonalds could start charging five cents a smile.

But that would be almost as stupid of a policy as the reserved list.

The truth is we do not know anything about the details that surround the decision to keep the reserve list. All we know is that MaRo and AaFo have said that it will never be changed, and they cannot talk about it, so further discussion is sort of pointless.

Quote from Mikeageddon

Is there any new news about this set? It feels like ages since they spoiled the first 6 cards. With only around 2 weeks to go until it's avaliable you'd think they would have a little more info on it. I'm still on the fence about wether or not I should preorder.

Legends came out on the 26th and was full spoiled on the 11th of last year. It also had roughly the same number of spoilers as we do now. Not that the remaining seven spoilers were all underwhleming; hopefully WotC learned their lesson and saved the best for last.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/774

Relics was spoiled on July 17th (by a leaked image) on July 17th and came out on the 27th of August.

Exiled was officially spoiled relatively early (August 7th, came out on the 28th)

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/50

So with that in mind, I think it's likely we'll have the full spoiler by the end of the week, likely Thursday.

Quote from Landrid

I'm not that clued up on the reserve list compared to other people but could someone explain why they can't just make fuctional reprints ? Different name / same effect.

They sort of do, but the reserve list forbids it from being a complete functional reprint.

Shocklands are about as close as you will get to Alpha/Beta duel lands.

Yeah making vintage more appealing wouldn't really hurt wotc that much considering most of their booster sales come from people playing casually not people playing standard. Most standard players will buy singles for their decks from second hand sites like ssg or TnT not from wizards so the loss of that market doesn't affect them in the slightest while selling sets containing legacy staples will net them initially a huge gain. Also thank god we have America where trash law suits like the ones threatened against removing the reserved list will actually get traction.

Quote from Cathallex

Most standard players will buy singles for their decks from second hand sites like ssg or TnT not from wizards so the loss of that market doesn't affect them in the slightest while selling sets containing legacy staples will net them initially a huge gain.

So you are basically saying that those cards that they buy are just appearing out of thin air?

Let us say that the card they buy are a given rare card, from a block where there are 55 rares in, that means that if they purchase that card the shop have roughly purchased and opened 55 boosters to acquire it for the player. It is a quite simplified way to look at it, as there are other variables playing into the equation, but it still shows that more boosters are opened to provide a given card to a specific person. Sure most of their sales comes from casual players, but without those second hand purchases there would be even less sales.

I would assume its limited and not standard that really drives the booster market, and most players would keep playing that if it came down to choosing between eternal formats and standard.

Lot's of players love limited.

Quote from Darksinger

So you are basically saying that those cards that they buy are just appearing out of thin air?

Let us say that the card they buy are a given rare card, from a block where there are 55 rares in, that means that if they purchase that card the shop have roughly purchased and opened 55 boosters to acquire it for the player. It is a quite simplified way to look at it, as there are other variables playing into the equation, but it still shows that more boosters are opened to provide a given card to a specific person. Sure most of their sales comes from casual players, but without those second hand purchases there would be even less sales.

Most of these sites and game stores get most of their cards from trades, yes initially they will open countless boxes to pre sell product when it comes out, and those come from limited and casual players who aren't affected by a dip in standard.

To make the reserved list a non-issue, ban all cards in it from legacy.
It doesnt hurt vintage and it makes the big money bump go from entering legacy. This might save legacy but kill modern.

Quote from DIABOLUS

To make the reserved list a non-issue, ban all cards in it from legacy.
It doesnt hurt vintage and it makes the big money bump go from entering legacy. This might save legacy but kill modern.

That would actually murder Legacy.

Quote from Entropy

Legends came out on the 26th and was full spoiled on the 11th of last year.

Relics was spoiled on July 17th (by a leaked image) on July 17th and came out on the 27th of August.

Exiled was officially spoiled relatively early (August 7th, came out on the 28th)

Keep in mind that they USED to sell this "early" at Gen Con, which is why we'd get the spoilers around this time. After some negative backlash, they stopped doing this however.

Also keep in mind that if the "spoiler" for the next set is indeed a shock land, chances are they'll want to hold that information a bit longer till PAX party...

Just saying, there is no promise we'll see any reveals this week since there are some new facots to consider... but considering street date it wouldn't shock me if we did.

Quote from Vividice

WotC has yet to show that they are willing to print expensive staples. Force of Will or Tarmogoyf are not hampered by the reserved list and yet saw no Reprint despite both beeing mayor entry barriers (moneywise).

Actually for me it looks more and more that they are trying to avoid any conflicts about reprints of expensive cards.

- Modern Reprints have been promised and didn't came yet.
- Snapcaster Mage excluded from Event Decks far.

Snapcaster isn't in event decks because they are designed for newer players getting into standard and snapcaster decks arent easy to play entry decks. Goyf is only played in 1 deck at the moment in legacy so it isn't a huge entry barrier. Force on the other hand...

Quote from Cathallex

Snapcaster isn't in event decks because they are designed for newer players getting into standard and snapcaster decks arent easy to play entry decks. Goyf is only played in 1 deck at the moment in legacy so it isn't a huge entry barrier. Force on the other hand...

Actually I say bull to this considering there are plenty of mechanics and cards in the Event Decks that are just as complex as Snapcaster...

I also call bull that WOTC holds back "expensive" cards on purpose in things like Event Decks. They had TWO Stoneforge Mystics in one right when they were at their highest prices.

People need to realise that there are tons of popular and saught after value cards... just because they have not printed your one or two pet cards YET doesn't mean they won't. They can't just slap a ton of reprints in every set because then people wouldn't have anything to look forward to. Besides, Goyf needs to have the right meta to come out in. One so heavily focused on graveyards really isn't the place for him. You can be sure, he'll be reprinted, but sure as hell don't expect them to put him in a set where he'll actually be GOOD.

I can't think of any event deck within the time snapcaster was out that had any kind of pseudo complicated mechanic apart from that one of pod in one of them. I'm talking about wotc's post scars simple gameplay attitude.

Note how I said can't think of any. The sheer terribleness of that deck must have shielded it from my mind. You could put snapcaster in it but it wouldn't save it or be especially well utilised. My point is still pretty valid though snapcaster is a card for very specific decks and none of the event decks including that one would benefit from his inclusion except to strip the deck apart and sell him out of it and contrary to this forums opinion that's not what the event decks are designed for.

Quote from Cathallex

Note how I said can't think of any. The sheer terribleness of that deck must have shielded it from my mind. You could put snapcaster in it but it wouldn't save it or be especially well utilised. My point is still pretty valid though snapcaster is a card for very specific decks and none of the event decks including that one would benefit from his inclusion except to strip the deck apart and sell him out of it and contrary to this forums opinion that's not what the event decks are designed for.

The guy counter argued and even showed proof yet you still think your point is valid because u couldnt think? So a flashback deck isnt a deck that snap caster was designed for or is snapcaster a card that new players wouldnt put into a flashback deck? Yet Repeat Performance with thragtusk the Dark acension red deck with Blinkmoth nexus the vampires from m11 or even the event deck with stoneforge mystic all were designed not to be stripped apart ? Your logic is failing away.

I agree event decks are a starting point for tournement but they need tournement quality cards.

I have started before there is a fine line between giving players jank because they are noob and giving players decent cards to start them off.

As proven by the decks Snapcaster mage is previlent in he isn't designed for decks where everything has flashback he is designed for decks to give cards so powerful they dont need flashback flashback. What's the point of snapcastering your desperate ravings. Putting the card in that deck just confuses the deck. While i agree the decks require tournament quality cards they are more in need of tournament quality cards that suit what the deck is actually trying to do. Consecrated sphinx would be a far better card in that deck than snapcaster as would thundermaw hellkite. The reason the red deck with inkmoth nexus was just used as spare parts was because putting inkmoth nexus in a red deck made absolutely no sense.

My initial point may have been slightly missguided with its implication that flashback is an overly complicated mechanic but is still valid in the way you have to build a deck that optimises snapcaster mage. The only decks in standard that use it currently are delver and control neither of which are easy decks to pilot or decks that you would advise a new player start out with.

Edit: and in the case of Stoneforge Mystic, they were trying to champion their two new mechanics in the block poison in 1 deck and living weapon in the other, stoneforge was the best enabler for living weapon so a great choice for the deck. If they decided to make a deck designed for snapcaster mage then i'm all for it but complaining because your flashback deck doesn't have a completely pointless card in it just because its worth $25 is idiotic.

I think we'll see Snapcaster Mage in an event deck before he leaves standard. Even if it is a swan song like appearance of a fetchland in the vamp deck in M12.

They haven't shied away from putting power, useful, expensive RAREs in these things. Inkmoth Nexus and Stoneforge Mystic come to mind. Granted, these were no where near the price level of Snapcaster, but they are powerful rares that fit the bill of what can be put in an event deck (i imagine no Mythic will ever be put in these).

I'm surprised we dont' have the list for FTV Realms yet. seems like we should.

Quote from eretsua

The event deck was released at the height of Stoneforge Mystic's price point but was designed way before that when it was an undervalued $/€1 rare.

They do seem mindful of putting high valued cards in precons. So I doubt they would have put the two SFMs in there if, at the time of the deck's conception, it was such high value card as it turned out to be on around the time of the event deck's release date.

Ah, but they NEVER know for sure what cards are going to be the big "money" cards. They make a game, and hope that people enjoy it. You can tell by even looking at release promos and game day cards that there are plenty of cards they HOPE are going to be playable but end up falling flat. They knew Snapcaster would be VERY good from the start, enough where they mentioned that he's partly why there is so much GY hate in INS block... but they wouldn't be able to tell if he would have been a $10 rare or a $30 one. Heck, he sees just as much play as certain zombies do right now...

I really think come Gen-Con they'll preview several of the remaining cards. I just don't see how they can't at an event like this that is essentially solely devoted to gaming. Then the rest will probably be spoiled during the week leading up to Realms release. But that's just my thought on it.

As for legacy the only cards that I believe are outrageously expensive is the duals, beyond that FoW, Wasteland, MoI, etc. I feel the current prices are reasonable albeit still difficult to deal with especially if a new player is trying to break into this format. Legacy I feel seems to be more for the old school players who've been playing since day one. However, in order for the format to continue its success reprints are needed and I for one would like the reserve list to be removed so that newer players can indeed have a better opportunity to join in on this format. I'm working on a legacy deck and it has taken me two years to get MOST of the cards I need for it. I still need the tundra's. So for the sake of legacy (and vintage) I feel everything BUT the power 9 should be available for a reprint.

Well, imo legacy seems to be first few turns, so I could see wizards just printing something on par with the duals and shocks. The scars lands with land types would have been perfect for legacy.

On topic, I'm hoping for wasteland since I play more EDH and karakas is banned. lol

Quote from havocentral

Well, imo legacy seems to be first few turns, so I could see wizards just printing something on par with the duals and shocks. The scars lands with land types would have been perfect for legacy.

With new players grimacing at the thought of shocking them,selves, and with WotC catering expert level expansions to newer players, I would not be surprised if RTR has new dual lands with a different drawback (no life loss).

However, I understand we are not expecting a preview card in this set (previously thye've announced when there will be a preview in FTV), so I don't expect we'll see one of these in this release.

They need to spoil some more of this, if only for the purpose of rerailing this thread.

Quote from Wretchedest

They need to spoil some more of this, if only for the purpose of rerailing this thread.

Expect some more info next week, considering the release date.