Why does everyone keep saying this will not see play? Are you not reading the card?
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You are assuming he's resolving on turn 1. Never gonna happen. You cast him on turn 1, you are dealing 4 damage. If that is what your deck wants, that's not so bad, but if you wanted to get a board presence, this card is not for you.
Right because RDW wins which wants to win at latest by turn 6 has no desire to take a 5th of a person's life turn one........yeeeaaahhh most red decks want this man.
This is definitely not worth using in burn legacy. There are plenty of 1CMC good removal like StP and PtE and most of the time this guy will be blocked/killed. If at least it were a 3/2 with haste that gave 3 damage when sacrificed, then it could see play.
I'm not saying it isn't a good card - it is. But burn is not a home for this. I'd rather still use my old-fashioned Flame Rift.
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Why does everyone keep saying this will not see play? Are you not reading the card?
Agreed. The card is gonna be expensive not just BECAUSE OF STANDARD. Legacy and modern are gonna love this card. Modern Zoo has just found it's one true love.
Right because RDW wins which wants to win at latest by turn 6 has no desire to take a 5th of a person's life turn one........yeeeaaahhh most red decks want this man.
See, that's the problem with everyone's arguments. As someone already said, the current Standard Red decks won't want him? What are you cutting for him? Fireslinger? You turn on Stormblood much less frequently now, so you up your turn 1 play, but drastically hurt your turn 2 plays.
Agreed. The card is gonna be expensive not just BECAUSE OF STANDARD. Legacy and modern are gonna love this card. Modern Zoo has just found it's one true love.
Modern zoo does not want this creature at all. Again, what are you cutting for it? Kird Ape/Loam Lion? No way, the body on turn 1 is much more relevant than 4 damage. And later in the game they are equal footing because both don't do anything.
This is one of the better cards released thus far. Just in the mindset of Legacy Burn, he is great and compares well to Goblin Guide. Goblin Guide, arguably one of the best RDW cards ever printed, can potentially net an opponent 1/2 (opp on play/draw) cards before eating a Swords after taking zero/two damage. This guy doming them for 4 is fine, that means they have no removal or creatures so your burn can be used more aggressively on their life total. The only "bad situation" with Vexing Devil is when this gets Swords-ed before it can swing...but GG can give them a land in the same sitation AND you gained 2 more life. The difference is more even than you think.
The other good thing about this guy is that he can kill Tarmogoyf half of the time and make opposing Snapcasters and Bobs not attack. This is something that GG can never do.
Agreed. The card is gonna be expensive not just BECAUSE OF STANDARD. Legacy and modern are gonna love this card. Modern Zoo has just found it's one true love.
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I'm pensive for this in Burn, as it has no etb if they let it stick. They let it stick and then deal with the body, you're out that burn spell. Guide can swing right away, Marauders and Hellspark are resilient to removal. I could see him replacing FoD, but I never ran him in the first place.
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You are assuming he's resolving on turn 1. Never gonna happen. You cast him on turn 1, you are dealing 4 damage. If that is what your deck wants, that's not so bad, but if you wanted to get a board presence, this card is not for you.
RDW is not about board as much as it is running the clock. Red is about all out attack and little tricks to slow people progression so your threats can continues to be relevant.
Also the cost is minimal allowing you to save up a second spell. If they pay 4 assuming no removal then they will have to pay minimum 2 to answer properly, having 3 toughness is a beast. Do not forget the environment. VD is an +1 to shrine and combos well with brimstone volley, with him you can go 4 dmg to you then cast a Berserker or 4 dmg plus Arc Trail Killing 2 tokens.
So is there a time where we can respond to them losing 4 life to sac this creature ourselves to a different outlet, or cast Undying Evil?
I don't believe so... cause once an ability starts to resolve (them making the choice) it has to finish before anything else can go on the stack.
Well VD ETB effect goes on the stack in response you can cast undying evil. However you have to cast the Evil before they make the choice so it may not be a good idea.
You are assuming he's resolving on turn 1. Never gonna happen. You cast him on turn 1, you are dealing 4 damage. If that is what your deck wants, that's not so bad, but if you wanted to get a board presence, this card is not for you.
I'm assuming nothing. I was replying to the fact that people are acting like -if he does resolve turn 1- he's just going to get chump blocked infinitely, as if you're not doing anything except swinging with this guy alone letting your opponent build up to their big threats. No one is going to play like that if they can help it.
If this guy does resolve Turn 1, I reasonably expect to get maybe one swing in before my opponent kills it anyway, so the way I look at it, he's either going to hit my opponent for 4 on turn 1 then die immediately, or hit my opponent for 4 on turn two or get chumped, taking an opponent's creature out and putting your opponent in an even worse spot as you drop a second or another threat.
It's easy to take that 4 damage on turn 1. When you're facing down that choice again the next turn and looking at potentially going down to 12 life before turn 3, possibly less depending on what your opponent is holding, it's not as easy of a choice to make.
Edit: Also, as pointed out, this guy is sick with Brimstone Volley. People say he's bad after turn 2-3, but think about what happens if you have Volley in hand. You drop him turn 4, your opponent takes 4 and kills him? Now they're taking another 5 to the face. They let him stay? He's probably going to trade with one of your opponent's creatures, then they're going to either lose another or take 5 to the face. Sounds good to me.
For all the overraters - this card is STRICTLY WORSE than
lava sword R
sorcery
Lava sword deals 4 damage to target player.
If your deck wants to play this card, then you can consider Vexing Devil, but it definately isn't the end-all of all red decks in all formats. I think it's good enough for legacy burn, and maybe standard/modern mono red decks, if there are decks like these.
Its synergy with Ranger of Eos is definately cute though. Could see it played in boros in modern.
Hmm, in standard I would love to drop this turn 1, as everyone can see, but it's awesome with 4 mana out too! If you have this and a Brimstone Volley, this will trade with many a creature when it swings so you can Volly for 5. If your opponent chooses to take the 4 damage and have you sac it, you can drop that volley for an addition 5! 4 mana for 9 dama in a mono-red deck is quite excellent. Later in the game he's not as powerful, but then again, would you rather drop the 1-drop vampire turn 6 or this guy.
Just cause he's not the MOST POWERFUL CARD EVER PRINTED doesn't make him bad. He is probably one of the Biggest and Baddest 1-drops you could manage that Will have to be dealt with quickly and he doesn't have a power that can be irrevelant later in the game state like Goblin Guide. I mean top-decking a Goblin Guide when your opponent has a Titan out just hurts, but though this guy doesn't trade with the titan, he does enough damage to almostallofthem while blocking to shock them down, the Inferno Titan is the only one that can kill him by just attacking.
There are answers, yes, but that's what makes this game great. Mark my words, early power like this is not irrelevant and he Will see play in Standard and Modern, and maybe even Legacy over Figure. Vexing Devil is a House
Modern zoo does not want this creature at all. Again, what are you cutting for it? Kird Ape/Loam Lion? No way, the body on turn 1 is much more relevant than 4 damage. And later in the game they are equal footing because both don't do anything.
I do know know which junk of a zoo decks you have been playing against. In zoo, a turn 1 4 damage is always and I mean always a good thing. Vexing devil being dead also has synergy with gofy. Oh and just for you info, Wild nacatl was banned, and zoo has looking for a good replacement ever since.
Clearly you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. So please do some reading, play against REAL zoo decks and then talk.
For all the overraters - this card is STRICTLY WORSE than
lava sword R
sorcery
Lava sword deals 4 damage to target player.
If your deck wants to play this card, then you can consider Vexing Devil, but it definately isn't the end-all of all red decks in all formats. I think it's good enough for legacy burn, and maybe standard/modern mono red decks, if there are decks like these.
Its synergy with Ranger of Eos is definately cute though. Could see it played in boros in modern.
When the card you made up is Strictly Better than Lava Spike, a Serious card in Legacy that Does see play
RDW is not about board as much as it is running the clock. Red is about all out attack and little tricks to slow people progression so your threats can continues to be relevant.
Also the cost is minimal allowing you to save up a second spell. If they pay 4 assuming no removal then they will have to pay minimum 2 to answer properly, having 3 toughness is a beast. Do not forget the environment. VD is an +1 to shrine and combos well with brimstone volley, with him you can go 4 dmg to you then cast a Berserker or 4 dmg plus Arc Trail Killing 2 tokens.
You are not playing this in the same deck as Stormblood. You say he synergizes with him, but the opposite is true. He only is good with Stormblood on turn 3 or later. On turn three, the opponent is probably letting him resolve, meaning you're getting a 4/3 and a 1/1, neither of which is all that impressive on turn 3 in this metagame. If you play him on turn 1, he is never staying in play, which means you are not turning on Stormblood on turn two.
Edit:
In response to the argument about board presence vs. clock, it depends on what kind of red deck you are building. The current mono red deck is about board presence. That board presence provides the clock.
I'm assuming nothing. I was replying to the fact that people are acting like -if he does resolve turn 1- he's just going to get chump blocked infinitely, as if you're not doing anything except swinging with this guy alone letting your opponent build up to their big threats. No one is going to play like that if they can help it.
If this guy does resolve Turn 1, I reasonably expect to get maybe one swing in before my opponent kills it anyway, so the way I look at it, he's either going to hit my opponent for 4 on turn 1 then die immediately, or hit my opponent for 4 on turn two or get chumped, taking an opponent's creature out and putting your opponent in an even worse spot as you drop a second or another threat.
It's easy to take that 4 damage on turn 1. When you're facing down that choice again the next turn and looking at potentially going down to 12 life before turn 3, possibly less depending on what your opponent is holding, it's not as easy of a choice to make.
No one has said it will be chump blocked if it resolves on turn 1. We have said it will get chump blocked when it resolves on turn 3.
You're argument that if it resolves on turn 1 it will deal at least 4 is wrong. If it resolves on turn one it is getting snagged or otherwise removed.
Your turn 2 argument is a good one, but again, just because that is a good play, this card still doesn't have a deck. It doesn't fit with the current mono red at all. It will only work in burn like decks.
For all the overraters - this card is STRICTLY WORSE than
lava sword R
sorcery
Lava sword deals 4 damage to target player.
If your deck wants to play this card, then you can consider Vexing Devil, but it definately isn't the end-all of all red decks in all formats. I think it's good enough for legacy burn, and maybe standard/modern mono red decks, if there are decks like these.
Its synergy with Ranger of Eos is definately cute though. Could see it played in boros in modern.
People still play lava spike in legacy,one more damage seems pretty good.
Ah, pre-orders are CRAZY as usual. Goblin Guide is less than $5 but this is going for $10?!? REALLY? I don't think GG ever went for $10 even when it was played in two Tier 1 decks (Boros, RDW) in Standard as well as Extended and Legacy!
Possibly. However, in EDH where ETB's are 95% of the creature base, the Orb doesn't make decks because its easier to build a deck the consistently draws ETB's. ETB's contribute to winning even when their triggers don't go off, whereas the Orb doesn't contribute to a win.
In short, if ETB's are thick enough to run the Orb, you are usually better off running ETB's and not the Orb.
I stand to be corrected though!
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Right because RDW wins which wants to win at latest by turn 6 has no desire to take a 5th of a person's life turn one........yeeeaaahhh most red decks want this man.
I'm not saying it isn't a good card - it is. But burn is not a home for this. I'd rather still use my old-fashioned Flame Rift.
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Agreed. The card is gonna be expensive not just BECAUSE OF STANDARD. Legacy and modern are gonna love this card. Modern Zoo has just found it's one true love.
See, that's the problem with everyone's arguments. As someone already said, the current Standard Red decks won't want him? What are you cutting for him? Fireslinger? You turn on Stormblood much less frequently now, so you up your turn 1 play, but drastically hurt your turn 2 plays.
Modern zoo does not want this creature at all. Again, what are you cutting for it? Kird Ape/Loam Lion? No way, the body on turn 1 is much more relevant than 4 damage. And later in the game they are equal footing because both don't do anything.
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The other good thing about this guy is that he can kill Tarmogoyf half of the time and make opposing Snapcasters and Bobs not attack. This is something that GG can never do.
I don't believe so... cause once an ability starts to resolve (them making the choice) it has to finish before anything else can go on the stack.
Modern Boros has also found their love here.
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RDW is not about board as much as it is running the clock. Red is about all out attack and little tricks to slow people progression so your threats can continues to be relevant.
Also the cost is minimal allowing you to save up a second spell. If they pay 4 assuming no removal then they will have to pay minimum 2 to answer properly, having 3 toughness is a beast. Do not forget the environment. VD is an +1 to shrine and combos well with brimstone volley, with him you can go 4 dmg to you then cast a Berserker or 4 dmg plus Arc Trail Killing 2 tokens.
I don't believe so... cause once an ability starts to resolve (them making the choice) it has to finish before anything else can go on the stack.
Well VD ETB effect goes on the stack in response you can cast undying evil. However you have to cast the Evil before they make the choice so it may not be a good idea.
I'm assuming nothing. I was replying to the fact that people are acting like -if he does resolve turn 1- he's just going to get chump blocked infinitely, as if you're not doing anything except swinging with this guy alone letting your opponent build up to their big threats. No one is going to play like that if they can help it.
If this guy does resolve Turn 1, I reasonably expect to get maybe one swing in before my opponent kills it anyway, so the way I look at it, he's either going to hit my opponent for 4 on turn 1 then die immediately, or hit my opponent for 4 on turn two or get chumped, taking an opponent's creature out and putting your opponent in an even worse spot as you drop a second or another threat.
It's easy to take that 4 damage on turn 1. When you're facing down that choice again the next turn and looking at potentially going down to 12 life before turn 3, possibly less depending on what your opponent is holding, it's not as easy of a choice to make.
Edit: Also, as pointed out, this guy is sick with Brimstone Volley. People say he's bad after turn 2-3, but think about what happens if you have Volley in hand. You drop him turn 4, your opponent takes 4 and kills him? Now they're taking another 5 to the face. They let him stay? He's probably going to trade with one of your opponent's creatures, then they're going to either lose another or take 5 to the face. Sounds good to me.
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lava sword R
sorcery
Lava sword deals 4 damage to target player.
If your deck wants to play this card, then you can consider Vexing Devil, but it definately isn't the end-all of all red decks in all formats. I think it's good enough for legacy burn, and maybe standard/modern mono red decks, if there are decks like these.
Its synergy with Ranger of Eos is definately cute though. Could see it played in boros in modern.
Just cause he's not the MOST POWERFUL CARD EVER PRINTED doesn't make him bad. He is probably one of the Biggest and Baddest 1-drops you could manage that Will have to be dealt with quickly and he doesn't have a power that can be irrevelant later in the game state like Goblin Guide. I mean top-decking a Goblin Guide when your opponent has a Titan out just hurts, but though this guy doesn't trade with the titan, he does enough damage to almost all of them while blocking to shock them down, the Inferno Titan is the only one that can kill him by just attacking.
There are answers, yes, but that's what makes this game great. Mark my words, early power like this is not irrelevant and he Will see play in Standard and Modern, and maybe even Legacy over Figure. Vexing Devil is a House
[c=Black Lotus]Lotus[/c]=Lotus
[c=Black Lotus|Alpha]Lotus[/c]=Lotus
[mana]WUBRGS-TQ-1-2-12-XY[/mana]=WUBRGS-TQ----XY
[mana]{WU}{UB}{BR}{RG}{GW}{WB}{BG}{GU}{UR}{RW}{2W}{2U}{2B}{2R}{2G}[/mana]=(W/U)(U/B)(B/R)(R/G)(G/W)(W/B)(B/G)(G/U)(U/R)(R/W)(2/W)(2/U)(2/B)(2/R)(2/G)
Triggered Ability-Whenever/When/At ..., (effect)
Replacement Effect-If/As ..., (effect)
I do know know which junk of a zoo decks you have been playing against. In zoo, a turn 1 4 damage is always and I mean always a good thing. Vexing devil being dead also has synergy with gofy. Oh and just for you info, Wild nacatl was banned, and zoo has looking for a good replacement ever since.
Clearly you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. So please do some reading, play against REAL zoo decks and then talk.
When the card you made up is Strictly Better than Lava Spike, a Serious card in Legacy that Does see play
[c=Black Lotus]Lotus[/c]=Lotus
[c=Black Lotus|Alpha]Lotus[/c]=Lotus
[mana]WUBRGS-TQ-1-2-12-XY[/mana]=WUBRGS-TQ----XY
[mana]{WU}{UB}{BR}{RG}{GW}{WB}{BG}{GU}{UR}{RW}{2W}{2U}{2B}{2R}{2G}[/mana]=(W/U)(U/B)(B/R)(R/G)(G/W)(W/B)(B/G)(G/U)(U/R)(R/W)(2/W)(2/U)(2/B)(2/R)(2/G)
Triggered Ability-Whenever/When/At ..., (effect)
Replacement Effect-If/As ..., (effect)
In all seriousness though, I think this will see play. 4 damage for R is worth it.
You are not playing this in the same deck as Stormblood. You say he synergizes with him, but the opposite is true. He only is good with Stormblood on turn 3 or later. On turn three, the opponent is probably letting him resolve, meaning you're getting a 4/3 and a 1/1, neither of which is all that impressive on turn 3 in this metagame. If you play him on turn 1, he is never staying in play, which means you are not turning on Stormblood on turn two.
Edit:
In response to the argument about board presence vs. clock, it depends on what kind of red deck you are building. The current mono red deck is about board presence. That board presence provides the clock.
No one has said it will be chump blocked if it resolves on turn 1. We have said it will get chump blocked when it resolves on turn 3.
You're argument that if it resolves on turn 1 it will deal at least 4 is wrong. If it resolves on turn one it is getting snagged or otherwise removed.
Your turn 2 argument is a good one, but again, just because that is a good play, this card still doesn't have a deck. It doesn't fit with the current mono red at all. It will only work in burn like decks.
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People still play lava spike in legacy,one more damage seems pretty good.
Possibly. However, in EDH where ETB's are 95% of the creature base, the Orb doesn't make decks because its easier to build a deck the consistently draws ETB's. ETB's contribute to winning even when their triggers don't go off, whereas the Orb doesn't contribute to a win.
In short, if ETB's are thick enough to run the Orb, you are usually better off running ETB's and not the Orb.
I stand to be corrected though!