MTG Salvation

Problem with Bob in standard back in Ravnica/Kamigawa was the existance of ghostdad, and BW aggro which did not run bob and due to their speed really prevented people from wanting to take shock damage+Bob damage. He was used minimally back then and would have very little effect right now in standard (unless rdw became big again as it would be the fuel for it to keep its speed up).

Quote from Kramit26

You want alt art crosis? The real art looks so much better so far, there is one visible "Lightning Bolt" in the art right now, and the card looks colorful not shiny, I think people are missing the points of foil cards, to be as bright and shiny as possible. Personally the old art foiled would have just been better.

What're you talking about? From what I can see (admittedly not much) new Crosis'll look better.

I know we all have different art preferences, but the old one looked ugly and a little tacky to me.

I'd like to see Akroma, Angel of Wrath in this for sure.

I don't think there will be any money mythic in here. Sphynx of steel wind, terastodon, angel of despair... these kind of creatures.

i dont see how discussing whether or not dark confident would be good in standard is relevant to a thread about a product which couldnt cause that to happen

on topc, id really like to see akroma as well, doomed necromancer is also a card id like to see in this although he might be too slow for a deck like this

Quote from spuzzem king

i dont see how discussing whether or not dark confident would be good in standard is relevant to a thread about a product which couldnt cause that to happen

on topc, id really like to see akroma as well, doomed necromancer is also a card id like to see in this although he might be too slow for a deck like this

I want to see the really good reanimator cards.

Inkwell Leviathan
Angel of Despair
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Blazing Archon

that kind of stuff, I'll probably get a bunch of this stuff just to fill EDH foils.

Quote from Kramit26

I want to see the really good reanimator cards.

Sphinx of the Steel Wind

I am really hoping that Sphinx makes it in there. A lot of people are discussing Akroma, but Sphinx just heroes it for me so often.

Quote from makochman

If by "fine" you mean "will not break the format" then it's true, Goyf and Bob are just creatures, and creatures tend not to break formats (unless they make 20/20 indestructible tokens). Otherwise both would see heavy play even today. More so during Zen-M11-SoM Standard which was much more like Legacy. Today there are fewer decks in existence that can accommodate Goyf or Bob, but these cards could spawn entirely new decks. (Just imagine BUG Tempo packing Goyf, Bob and Tiago in Standard!)

I don't see what "lesson" people supposedly learned with Bolt and Grim Lavamancer. As for Nantuko Shade and Meddling Mage, they certainly weren't seeing Eternal play by the time they were reprinted. The example of Countertop is irrelevant, to set up the lock one needs to have Brainstorm and ideally also Enlightened Tutor. Top is not so good without fetchlands either. Basically Countertop was never legal in Standard. Countertop is more about having a similar mana curve than a low mana curve and it could work in Standard if it were actually feasible to set up.

The lesson I'm referring to is that a card being good in eternal doesn't mean it's grossly overpowered in standard. With Lightning Bolt, especially there were tons of threads about how there was zero chance the mage on the hill was Lightning Bolt art, because it was considered overpowered back in the early 90s and would totally cause red to dominate the format.

Quote from Negator87

what is bladewinter?

And, isn't the decklist supposed to be released today?

I think he is refering to last winter where blade decks where ruling the format.

WHAT? No list? Damn you wizards, they give us the packaging we already had! Hah! What a joke.

Quote from Darth MaIak

LOL @ trying to coin a term as terrible as "bladewinter".

I liked it.

You know, I'm most curious about the art that was released with the announcement, as it isn't any of the cards on the packaging. Is it from an old card or just concept art attached to the product?

Quote from flaming infinity

The lesson I'm referring to is that a card being good in eternal doesn't mean it's grossly overpowered in standard. With Lightning Bolt, especially there were tons of threads about how there was zero chance the mage on the hill was Lightning Bolt art, because it was considered overpowered back in the early 90s and would totally cause red to dominate the format.

Bob and Goyf are sort of different. I don't think Goyf would be that overpowered, but would routinely get to being a 4/5 for 2, which would just make control decks use Goyf and not a titan. It wouldn't allow for a faster clock than what exists today--it would just be a hyper-efficient beater. Fine, but just this dumb monster that went into every deck.

Bob, on the other hand, would just make another blade style deck. O.G. blade had a curve that looked like a legacy curve, and *27* lands. Bob would (a) just flip lands a lot more, and (b) can be built around to not cost the max life--not a "ram into everything" card, but seems like it would be very, very good.

Goyf would probably make about the splash that Bolt did, Bob...well, who knows.

Quote from Sylvia Plath"s Skull

I liked it.

You know, I'm most curious about the art that was released with the announcement, as it isn't any of the cards on the packaging. Is it from an old card or just concept art attached to the product?

For me it's obvious it's reanimate. Frankenstein-like with electricity.

Goyf wouldn't get nearly as big as quickly in standard. No fetch lands, wastelands, and less one mana spells would keep him small.

I agree that the greenish new alternate art kind of looks like a reanimation card. It does seem like a hard picture to match to a card though.

Quote from makochman

You just had to say that, didn't you. Fine. Creatures tend not to break formats (unless they make 20/20 indestructible tokens or recurring lifelinked 4/4's or are named Vengevine or are part of some other combo.) It was clear enough in my post that combos involving creatures can in fact break formats... Any other irrelevant points you would like to make?

So basically what you're saying is that creatures tend not to break formats unless they're, what, any good at all? Basically this is how your post reads:

Creature tend not to break formats except for all these times that they broke formats, oh and there's a lot more that I don't have the time to list out. But creatures still don't break formats, and you're wrong and I'm right.

Quote from Eminai

So basically what you're saying is that creatures tend not to break formats unless they're, what, any good at all? Basically this is how your post reads:

No, he's saying combo's including creatures are "broken" because they are combo's.

But I bet you were one of the people who wanted to push the power creep of creatures cause you were upset that your bumb got hurt during Lorwyn Standard with Faeries.

The problem you guys are having is that creatures aren't broken, there are just ones that enable. On it's own, was Stoneforge Mystic "broken" when it was just grabbing Basilisk Collar? Or was it "broken" when they printed the best sword ever?

SFM is an enabler, Squadron Hawks are essentially some of the best card advantage standard has seen in a lonnngg time. Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf are both really good card, and are not broken at all... Tarmogoyf dies to dismember in legacy, pretty sure the same would happen more so in standard, and Dark Confidant would be alright in standard since you are going to take 2 damage on average in control decks since he obviously doesn't replace titans but we play much more lands. However with a lack of brainstorm and preordain, the percent chance that you take damage is really a fluctuation. *But in no way am I saying these are bad cards, because they die to removal or otherwise* But clearly there is a difference between good cards and broken cards, and creatures are really never broken. You seriously have to reevaluate what you consider broken if you think that Vampire Hexmage is the broken card over Dark Depths. Without the other, I can still get a 20/20 flying indestructible with my Dark Depths, I guess I can kill a planeswalker with my hexmage? Hexmage is an enabler, hence why it was not banned in modern.

ON TOPIC:
I said it a few pages back, I'm leaning towards them releasing more cards or the list probably this wednesday, or monday next week. Although wizards is always 2 weeks behind their own spoilers, because if they weren't they wouldn't be able to troll us by spoiling things we haven't already seen or known of for days or weeks.

But still hoping for some good cards to make me buy this from walmart!

Quote from Serrabot

Jesus...Off topic much...

Where is the spoiler????

It was never promised to be released today... just speculated since it's Halloween.

Well it does seem rather obvious they would release it today, on Halloween.

We're in the middle of a 'spooky' block for cryin' out loud. This is the Premium Deck product for this year.

How could anything be more obvious than this? Someone probably does deserve a smack to the side o the head in their Marketing Dept.

I'm not griping from a sense of entitlement so much as I'm just scratching my head at their rollout process with this thing. It literally makes zero sense to me to not have a decklist today.

Quote from neo_altoid

Bob and Goyf are sort of different. I don't think Goyf would be that overpowered, but would routinely get to being a 4/5 for 2, which would just make control decks use Goyf and not a titan. It wouldn't allow for a faster clock than what exists today--it would just be a hyper-efficient beater. Fine, but just this dumb monster that went into every deck.

Bob, on the other hand, would just make another blade style deck. O.G. blade had a curve that looked like a legacy curve, and *27* lands. Bob would (a) just flip lands a lot more, and (b) can be built around to not cost the max life--not a "ram into everything" card, but seems like it would be very, very good.

Goyf would probably make about the splash that Bolt did, Bob...well, who knows.

Goyf wouldn't be 4/5 until significantly later. The only way to normally put lands into a graveyard in standard is Ghost Quarter, which generally screws you over if you use it early game. He'll probably be 2/3 or 3/4 by turn three, though, making him less beefy than a Leatherback Baloth and similar in power to Garruk's Champion. He's a nice card and splashable, but I actually see him seeing less play than Bolt. He certainly doesn't work in all green decks and standard isn't the greatest place for greedy splashes.

Of course, he could even be in Innistrad block. It's extremely strange that Terramorphic Expanse, the casual gem that gets printed constantly, would rotate from the format for the first time since Time Spiral. We also haven't seen anything that cares about lands in graveyards yet.

They released the pack image because it's halloween. Too bad we already had it. This just drives the sales down, so worse for them.

Quote from Pein

They released the pack image because it's halloween. Too bad we already had it. This just drives the sales down, so worse for them.

Not sure how the last statement is the result of the first statement, but OK. Seeing the list one week earlier than expected won't get any more people to buy this set.