Another thing to help the people who are higher in rank gain more advantages? First there was the rarepick at the end of the events, now there's this? Good luck explaining a newbie why all his shiny cards are being taken away by a guy who will just go "meh" and ditch them in a box never to be seen again.
If I wasn't already sick of magic for other reasons, this might have helped turning me away.
Hmm true. How about having the person who plays lose a certain amount of life, like 2 or 3. Would that give one incentive to draw?
That would make aggro too good. Burn in legacy with opponent on 18 life would just be unfair. And they don't really care if they start on 18 life themself.
Found it!! the person who starts doesn't draw first!!. reminds me of something, but i'm pretty sure it's a good idea !!
Seems good in theory but in practice it just doesn't work perfectly due to how tempo oriented this game is. If we started the game with 30 or even 25 life, I'm sure things would be different.
Actually, it's exactly about that kind of draw (IDs), because if you ID your last round, you'll sit lower in the standings overall, which could hurt you later on. As it stands, there's no way that IDing could hurt you, if you're guarenteed a T8 place with that 1 point.
This is not quite true.
One situation that comes up more often than you'd expect is this:
It's the final round of swiss, you and I are playing, and we are each high enough in the standings that we'll both make top 8 no matter the result of this match.
We are able to calculate the bracket well enough that we know whoever wins our match will play against a certain player in the first round of the top 8.
That player is either a bad matchup for both of us, or is a sufficiently strong player that neither of us wants that in the first round of the top 8.
Therefore we each want to concede the current match to get an easier quarterfinal round.
Intentional draws can produce similar effects, and so players in that situation often do not want to draw.
I am not avid enough, nor skilled enough, to have approached t8 at a tournament of this caliber, but my gut reaction is that this is way too much of a boon for the higher ranking player. If the win percentages for play vs draw were something like 55/45 then I would be behind this, but the number I have seen talked about were much more unbalanced- they were more like 65/35 (perhaps worse). If that holds true then handing the leading player that large of an advantage is just terrible.
When it come to the intentional draws, I have one question: Why would you agree to it? If I am playing in a big tournament and I am sitting across from Steve T. Fancypants, who is doing better than me and will get in to top 8 if he does not loose our match, why would I roll over and take the draw. Sure, I get nothing for beating Mr. Fancypants from a prize perspective, but every opportunity to play against someone better than you in a high-pressure match should be approached with the same spiketastic drive to win or learn from the loss. The tournament is about who is better at The Gathering (not just who has the best pants), so why should the winners be allowed to get there through anything less than playing the game of M:tG the best in every match?
Now, I can see how team play (which I am not very thrilled with either) can make this hard to police, but if Steve T. Fancypants is ever sitting across from me you can bet your pants that I am going to believe in the heart of the cards and make each play count. Anything less is weak sauce.
You do know that previous die rolls in a tournament likely played a role in determining the top eight of said tournament, right?
Horrible change.
the people who enjoy this change likely don't understand that. it's pretty likely they don't hit the top tables often enough to know how bad this is, either.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
the people who enjoy this change likely don't understand that. it's pretty likely they don't hit the top tables often enough to know how bad this is, either.
which aspect is "bad"? The incentivizing players to play it out rather than ID aspect, or the giving players a large benefit based on standings aspect?
the people who enjoy this change likely don't understand that. it's pretty likely they don't hit the top tables often enough to know how bad this is, either.
Yes, I'm sure LSV has a flawed opinion on the subject because he's just not good enough. If only he were as good as you are, then he would really know how bad this is....
You do know that previous die rolls in a tournament likely played a role in determining the top eight of said tournament, right?
Horrible change.
If you are positing that the make up of the Top 8 are influenced by previous random events (which I agree with, as the play is generally better to a small degree), then this new policy means that the play/draw in the Top 8 is now determined by reference to those random events, as well as the elements of e.g. skill and deck choice that correlate (much more strongly) with tournament success.
This is in contrast to the old system, where we used a new set of entirely random events (die rolls) to determine the play/draw in the Top 8.
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Hmm true. How about having the person who plays lose a certain amount of life, like 2 or 3. Would that give one incentive to draw?
That would make aggro too good. Burn in legacy with opponent on 18 life would just be unfair. And they don't really care if they start on 18 life themself.
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Seems good in theory but in practice it just doesn't work perfectly due to how tempo oriented this game is. If we started the game with 30 or even 25 life, I'm sure things would be different.
This is not quite true.
One situation that comes up more often than you'd expect is this:
Intentional draws can produce similar effects, and so players in that situation often do not want to draw.
----
Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
When it come to the intentional draws, I have one question: Why would you agree to it? If I am playing in a big tournament and I am sitting across from Steve T. Fancypants, who is doing better than me and will get in to top 8 if he does not loose our match, why would I roll over and take the draw. Sure, I get nothing for beating Mr. Fancypants from a prize perspective, but every opportunity to play against someone better than you in a high-pressure match should be approached with the same spiketastic drive to win or learn from the loss. The tournament is about who is better at The Gathering (not just who has the best pants), so why should the winners be allowed to get there through anything less than playing the game of M:tG the best in every match?
Now, I can see how team play (which I am not very thrilled with either) can make this hard to police, but if Steve T. Fancypants is ever sitting across from me you can bet your pants that I am going to believe in the heart of the cards and make each play count. Anything less is weak sauce.
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You do know that previous die rolls in a tournament likely played a role in determining the top eight of said tournament, right?
Horrible change.
the people who enjoy this change likely don't understand that. it's pretty likely they don't hit the top tables often enough to know how bad this is, either.
which aspect is "bad"? The incentivizing players to play it out rather than ID aspect, or the giving players a large benefit based on standings aspect?
Yes, I'm sure LSV has a flawed opinion on the subject because he's just not good enough. If only he were as good as you are, then he would really know how bad this is....
If you are positing that the make up of the Top 8 are influenced by previous random events (which I agree with, as the play is generally better to a small degree), then this new policy means that the play/draw in the Top 8 is now determined by reference to those random events, as well as the elements of e.g. skill and deck choice that correlate (much more strongly) with tournament success.
This is in contrast to the old system, where we used a new set of entirely random events (die rolls) to determine the play/draw in the Top 8.
I run a Tumblr for Magic-related statistics, graphs, and quizzes. Come check it out!
edit thanks to those who caught my mis-paste!
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