The thing that gets me. People assume this setting is non consensual. I don't feel there is enough context. Its like assuming sexy clothing means they want sex. That's asinine.
And if you say its because its a goblin, well, then that's being specist. This is a nothing image and a so-so issue at most. Also, I think its a settled issue :/.
Actually, I think most people assume it is consensual, and that makes it all the worse. These women are accepting their place as slaves, and liking it. That is the problem with this playmat.
The real hypocrisy comes from the fact that no one would be batting an eye toward the art if it were all males instead. Our society is just fine with appreciating the male body, but when it's a female's figure? HOLY **** STOP THE PRESS!
And the fact that we don't care about violence, blood, gore, and murder is also hypocritical in of itself. That's just fine, but seeing boobs and curves = bad? Ugh.
A few things. They will never be males, never have been males and you will struggle to find any overtly sexual males begging at the feet of the queen, especially scantily clad ones. Where are the japanese playmats of little boys in skimpy shorts with panties showing? (actually don't even go looking...its japan) And what bodies inform your standard? Just this air brushed ones in commericals?
A harem of voluptuous, scantily clad, supplicants, with one licking the face of the king is appreciation of the female form? That is about as subtle as sledgehammer meeting a brick. Where are the uncut, not skinny, flatchested women. Are they appreciated?
Two things are at work here. Advertising and projection. The playmat is risque but cliche. Ones a dark demon whatever, one has fire hair and the other an elf but none of this prevented the artist drawing a perfect set of tits. Look how out of proportion the elf is for ****s sake. This is clearly catering to the pre pupescent/puescent teen market or the psychosexually immature.
There is also the typical ortientialst approach to art work ,"Only in the mysterious goblins den will you find beautiful, lavish temptress willing to do your every bidding". Every creature is conveniently humanoid, therefore not really like me. That only this wierd golbin could live so lavishly and poesses such strange lusts. It's a convenient mechanism to allow people to distance themselves from their sexual fantasies and or lack of furfilment.
Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
the art on this playmat is the equivalent of wearing a cheap, black T-shirt with the phrase "hurr hurr i like boobies" printed on in plain white text, above a crude cartoony image of a dragon sitting on top of a skull.
if you want that playmat, i worry about you. subtlety and nuance? PAH!
besides, that sort of submissive harem imagery has never been sexy. it's just kind of goofy and embarrassing.
AND it's not like the art style is particularly appealing in a technical sense..... Kev Walker, John Avon or Mark Tedin this is not!
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A harem of voluptuous, scantily clad, supplicants, with one licking the face of the king is appreciation of the female form? That is about as subtle as sledgehammer meeting a brick. Where are the uncut, not skinny, flatchested women. Are they appreciated?
Two things are at work here. Advertising and projection. The playmat is risque but cliche. Ones a dark demon whatever, one has fire hair and the other an elf but none of this prevented the artist drawing a perfect set of tits. Look how out of proportion the elf is for ****s sake. This is clearly catering to the pre pupescent/puescent teen market or the psychosexually immature.
There is also the typical ortientialst approach to art work ,"Only in the mysterious goblins den will you find beautiful, lavish temptress willing to do your every bidding". Every creature is conveniently humanoid, therefore not really like me. That only this wierd golbin could live so lavishly and poesses such strange lusts. It's a convenient mechanism to allow people to distance themselves from their sexual fantasies and or lack of furfilment.
Does anyone know what this mat is trying to actually depict? Because Chandra and Lilliana being in this sort of position seems like it'd have to have some sort of story behind it.
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Hey, lolis with katanas are awesome, and I don't care about their home country.
Am I the only one who thinks that this art is just stupid? I mean, everything about it is pointless; it's not even cool or anything. =\
I think it's plain stupid as well. It's not even that I'm offended, but I'd be flat out embarassed to whip one of these out and play with it. It asumes that every Magic player is a hormonal teenager. But to be fair, I'm pretty picky with my playmats. I wouldn't play with the squirrel vs Werewolf one either.
How's it a stupid reason? Elaine Chase's tweet sums it up perfectly.
Quote:
We keep a standard for Magic art to portray strong female characters. Sexy is OK, submissive or damsels in distress is not.
Just because 90% of M:TG players are male does not mean that WOTC wants to do something that would mildly please that 90%, and alienate the other 10%. That's bad marketing.
The art for this playmat is not very far off from Ladies' Knight. They both depict women throwing themselves at a male figure. Even though the card is from a "humorous set", the fact they feel it ok to print the card but not this mat seems suspicious at best.
Some of you may have been in shock since we invaded Canada and Mexico, but fear not, it was for a good cause. Now that we conrol North America, we produce an extra 5 armies a turn.^_^
The mat wasn't authorized by WOTC for Pasttimes to print. Pasttimes chose the art.
Quote from Elaine Chase via Twitter »
@LifeOnAuto that is not authorized and will not be given out. Thanks for making us aware.
Fantasy art seems to follow this path;
13-yr old male sees fantasy art, muscular men, scantily clad females etc.
He likes the art, and starts trying to create some himself. He get's good, goes to art school with the full intention of becoming...a 30-yr old fantasy artist painting muscular men and scantily clad women, thus continuing the trend.
I can't believe so many people in this thread (75% ?) don't understand why Wizards does not endorse this image despite the OP having a quote from Elaine explaining it in a short and concise manner.
Actually, I think most people assume it is consensual, and that makes it all the worse. These women are accepting their place as slaves, and liking it. That is the problem with this playmat.
Whoa! Who says they are slaves? You say they are slaves, and that's your opinion. Also that's complete BS, your assumption that consensual means "they know their place" your assumption is offensive. There is ZERO context to this art so people make their assumptions as they do with most art... *without use of their brain*
For instance... Maybe the "Witch/Succubus" lady granted him a wish of gold and power and now women are all over him because he's famous and rich and powerful... Perhaps... Like in real life maybe!? *Don't even try to argue that there aren't Gold Diggers in our society...*
Maybe he also wanted women with his wish WHO KNOWS!? Art is always up for interpretation, and it's in the eye of the beholder what they assume the arts story is about. For the artist it's one thing, for me it's another and for you or someone else in the masses it's another!
I think the mat is certainly fine. I want one, have they said anything other than "it wont be given out"? cause if they didnt say it can't be sold then the store should just sell them for like 10-20 bucks each.
Whether I think it's fine is not the problem though, I can see how the art can be "upsetting" to people who have nothing else to do with their life but complain about sexual image in society. And more so how WotC wants to keep a clean public image.
You could also potentially find the image in full size resolution... and go to a custom mat site and literally make the mat yourself through the custom mat site.
Meh, regardless of how I try to rationalize it, I understand completely why Wizards of the Coast would come to the decision of axing the playmat as something they endorse. I mean look at Mass Effect 1, Bioware had to slash the romance scene in the 2nd to a clothed guessing game because of the negative media impact the first one had regardless of the numerous solid reasons behind having them in the game..... ish on the reasoning.*
Fact of the matter is this. Human beings have the ability to choose. They can choose not to like something or to like something. Regardless of which direction it goes in, get over it. The only time anything like this should become an actual concern is if people actually start raising up pitchforks and try to out people.
Sound business decision? Hell yeah. Good on them.
Terrible decision for me? I want one....badly. Why? Because I like looking at scantily clad women with firey hair, pointy ears and tattoos. And no I'm not a hormonal teenager. I just like looking at women.
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I like looking at women too, but I don't like tacky crap - and this art is crap, as has been pointed out by numerous people in the thread - that makes it look as if our community of magic players is nothing but a bunch of foaming boys who play the game so we can ogle boobs in chainmail bikinis. I hate it when my emotional intelligence is insulted like that. WoW does the same thing, and I hated that aspect of it too.
A Grand Prix is a big deal as far as tournaments go and it sends out a very bad message to have this sort of thing handed out where our community is represented at a high level, so I don't think there's any doubt that Wizards should be distancing themselves from it.
As for individual people who want it, that's their choice. I'm not going to say it's "offensive" or "inappropriate" for grown men (and women) who enjoy artwork like that and want it on a playmat to get their wish.
I dislike the play matt is tacky and generic fanboism.
Not because it sexist.
But I guess the critique of unoriginal and ugly is trumped by SEXIST.
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
What makes it past printable is that it too closely mirrors offensive aspects of our society. If we did exist in a gender neutral society where men are dominated by women sexually and otherwise in close to equal amounts as women were dominated by men, sure it should be a permissible representation. BUT WE DON'T. 99% of rapists are men. If you take a look at this playmat and say, "yeah that's fine" you are either OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY or DESENSITIZED. Get educated. Care about others.
It also doesn't help that it is cartoony and reminds me of big johnson t-shirts.
I think Magic (and gaming in general) is entirely too "sexualized" as it is, and this playmat is just way over the top. Not to mention, it's just even that attractive or even well done.
As a commentary on Magic (and geek/gaming) society, though, it's disappointingly accurate.
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I think there is an interesting dichotomy in this thread. Those who know how to read and digest information properly and those who enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing. I see arguments about sexism, about comparisons to former cards, rationalizations and finally, the rational understanding of the issue.
First off, let's say what the real issue is here, WOTC is a business that makes decision based on what is best for their profits and image (which ultimately just means profits). Everything else being discussed here is not relevant to the issue. They made a decision based on what they felt was best for their business. Alienating potential customers is not good for business. It is clear that some find this offensive. WOTC is simply saying "We are not going to use a potentially offensive image to promote one of our major events." That is it. Nothing else.
Society has double standards. It is based off the amalgam of everything that defines our society. If you see a man with 5 women masked and on a leash, what would you think? If you said anything other than "This man is going to be having his way sexually with these women", you don't live in the same society as the rest the world. Soul Collector isn't offensive because we define situations by the information we gather based on our own life experiences. You don't see that picture and think automatically "That woman is going to be using those men sexually." However, it is fully acceptable to say that a man with 5 women subjugated would in fact, use them sexually. That's the reality of the world we live in. It's not some neutered "everyone is equal" view because that's not reality.
In business, perception is reality. If you showed 100 random people on the street the playmat and soul collector then asked them to pick out the one that is showing people in sexual subjugation, I'm willing to be at least 90 of them say the playmat. This is the reality that WOTC deals with. The reality of our society. This brings me back to the point made by just about every intelligent person in this thread - this is not a social statement, it is a business choice by WOTC.
First of all, the playmat is ridiculous. I would never play with it. The art is poorly done. WotC is perfectly right to not hand this out to the players at a GP. As stated above, it is a business decision. Why would Hasbro/WotC push anything controversial that could alienate some of their clients when they could just print a playmat of a dragon or something that offends no one?
Secondly, Clergy En-Vec. Men in submissive poses DO exist on MTG cards.
In summation.....Star Trek wins a prolonged naval battle against superior, yet less technologically advanced, numbers, with Picard leading the assault, while Kirk takes your soul by laying out Solo and probably his manservant Chewy as well, before impregnating and ditching your Princess.
What makes it past printable is that it too closely mirrors offensive aspects of our society. If we did exist in a gender neutral society where men are dominated by women sexually and otherwise in close to equal amounts as women were dominated by men, sure it should be a permissible representation. BUT WE DON'T. 99% of rapists are men. If you take a look at this playmat and say, "yeah that's fine" you are either OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY or DESENSITIZED. Get educated. Care about others.
It also doesn't help that it is cartoony and reminds me of big johnson t-shirts.
First, I'd challenge your 99% figure. But this isn't the place to do that.
Second, the art mirrors human nature. For thousands of years, tens of thousands, men have been dominant over women in society. It's only been the past 20-30 years that this has been changing - and the change is artificial. It's being forced on us these days to feel that it is a sin for men to feel and act like a man, and it is a sin for women to feel and act like a woman. There are certain groups within our various societies who are pushing for the feminization of men and the masculinization of women - to what ends, I do not know. But I do know that in certain circles, men like me are not welcome because we are traditional men - we aren't "in touch with our feminine side."
It seems to me that you and others are trying to repress tens of thousands of years of human instinct, possibly because you are ashamed of what we are. And you are trying to forcibly repress that same instinct in the people around you. Unfortunately (for those like you), it's hard to repress human instinct.
Honestly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this playmat aside from the obvious art errors (such as missing feet). Unless you are someone who fears human instinct - then there is a lot wrong with this playmat.
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I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
I know someone who is "interested" in Realms Uncharted, and it's not because of the card mechanics. Just saying.
I'm going to have to agree with the consensus here. It would have been worse if the "King" wasn't a goblin though. I'd really like to see the stats of that goblin.
What makes it past printable is that it too closely mirrors offensive aspects of our society. If we did exist in a gender neutral society where men are dominated by women sexually and otherwise in close to equal amounts as women were dominated by men, sure it should be a permissible representation. BUT WE DON'T. 99% of rapists are men. If you take a look at this playmat and say, "yeah that's fine" you are either OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY or DESENSITIZED. Get educated. Care about others.
It also doesn't help that it is cartoony and reminds me of big johnson t-shirts.
That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say in a while. Nothing about the image portrays raping or utter sexual domination through fear of retribution so that point is completely invalidated. All this image protrays is a goblin, who is for all intents and purposes the low end of the totem pole in terms of species viability for anything, is finally getting his wish from the OBVIOUS temptress/genie/wishmaster on the side, to be in a position of power. He has the heads of his worst enemies at his feet, a viciously and dangerously powerful weapon to his right, the bottom of his chair is surrounded by a DRAGON, also a beautiful iteration of bringing one's hated enemies to one's feet, room surrounded by artifacts and then to top it off... A trio of obviously wanting multi specied women grovelling at his feet.
The image is nothing more the a perfect example of the lowly undeserving finally obtaining power through illicit means. Everything about it screams flavor for the scenario it is trying to depict as well as accuracy. Especially since in the time and age that this is meant to reflect, true power for any male human-like species was the ability to have any woman you wanted, a treasure trove of powerful weapons and artifacts, and dead enemies everywhere. Conan anyone?
How ANYONE could even THINK that this has anything to do with male oppression to the brink of rape is the one who has the issue. The issue of trying to find something wrong where there technically isn't anything wrong. It's an image, a drawing, a picture given out as a prize. It shouldn't reflect a business standpoint but to some people it has and now it got to the point where action was taken in regards to it.
Again I will agree with their desire to NOT take negative media attention that this will garner, specifically because of people just like you, the same people who were whining about BIOWARE's stance on Mass Effect 1, the same people who popped a nerve about Grand theft Auto's Coffee House, and the same people who will take things COMPLETELY out of context, every chance they get, only because they have the option of doing so. I respect your choose to be able to, but for the love of everything human, sensibly look at it. Dear god......rape? Really?
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Actually, I think most people assume it is consensual, and that makes it all the worse. These women are accepting their place as slaves, and liking it. That is the problem with this playmat.
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A few things. They will never be males, never have been males and you will struggle to find any overtly sexual males begging at the feet of the queen, especially scantily clad ones. Where are the japanese playmats of little boys in skimpy shorts with panties showing? (actually don't even go looking...its japan) And what bodies inform your standard? Just this air brushed ones in commericals?
A harem of voluptuous, scantily clad, supplicants, with one licking the face of the king is appreciation of the female form? That is about as subtle as sledgehammer meeting a brick. Where are the uncut, not skinny, flatchested women. Are they appreciated?
Two things are at work here. Advertising and projection. The playmat is risque but cliche. Ones a dark demon whatever, one has fire hair and the other an elf but none of this prevented the artist drawing a perfect set of tits. Look how out of proportion the elf is for ****s sake. This is clearly catering to the pre pupescent/puescent teen market or the psychosexually immature.
There is also the typical ortientialst approach to art work ,"Only in the mysterious goblins den will you find beautiful, lavish temptress willing to do your every bidding". Every creature is conveniently humanoid, therefore not really like me. That only this wierd golbin could live so lavishly and poesses such strange lusts. It's a convenient mechanism to allow people to distance themselves from their sexual fantasies and or lack of furfilment.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
if you want that playmat, i worry about you. subtlety and nuance? PAH!
besides, that sort of submissive harem imagery has never been sexy. it's just kind of goofy and embarrassing.
AND it's not like the art style is particularly appealing in a technical sense..... Kev Walker, John Avon or Mark Tedin this is not!
Does anyone know what this mat is trying to actually depict? Because Chandra and Lilliana being in this sort of position seems like it'd have to have some sort of story behind it.
I think it's plain stupid as well. It's not even that I'm offended, but I'd be flat out embarassed to whip one of these out and play with it. It asumes that every Magic player is a hormonal teenager. But to be fair, I'm pretty picky with my playmats. I wouldn't play with the squirrel vs Werewolf one either.
The art for this playmat is not very far off from Ladies' Knight. They both depict women throwing themselves at a male figure. Even though the card is from a "humorous set", the fact they feel it ok to print the card but not this mat seems suspicious at best.
Fantasy art seems to follow this path;
13-yr old male sees fantasy art, muscular men, scantily clad females etc.
He likes the art, and starts trying to create some himself. He get's good, goes to art school with the full intention of becoming...a 30-yr old fantasy artist painting muscular men and scantily clad women, thus continuing the trend.
And gamers wonder why the stereotypes exist.
Whoa! Who says they are slaves? You say they are slaves, and that's your opinion. Also that's complete BS, your assumption that consensual means "they know their place" your assumption is offensive. There is ZERO context to this art so people make their assumptions as they do with most art... *without use of their brain*
For instance... Maybe the "Witch/Succubus" lady granted him a wish of gold and power and now women are all over him because he's famous and rich and powerful... Perhaps... Like in real life maybe!? *Don't even try to argue that there aren't Gold Diggers in our society...*
Maybe he also wanted women with his wish WHO KNOWS!? Art is always up for interpretation, and it's in the eye of the beholder what they assume the arts story is about. For the artist it's one thing, for me it's another and for you or someone else in the masses it's another!
I think the mat is certainly fine. I want one, have they said anything other than "it wont be given out"? cause if they didnt say it can't be sold then the store should just sell them for like 10-20 bucks each.
Whether I think it's fine is not the problem though, I can see how the art can be "upsetting" to people who have nothing else to do with their life but complain about sexual image in society. And more so how WotC wants to keep a clean public image.
You could also potentially find the image in full size resolution... and go to a custom mat site and literally make the mat yourself through the custom mat site.
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Fact of the matter is this. Human beings have the ability to choose. They can choose not to like something or to like something. Regardless of which direction it goes in, get over it. The only time anything like this should become an actual concern is if people actually start raising up pitchforks and try to out people.
Sound business decision? Hell yeah. Good on them.
Terrible decision for me? I want one....badly. Why? Because I like looking at scantily clad women with firey hair, pointy ears and tattoos. And no I'm not a hormonal teenager. I just like looking at women.
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A Grand Prix is a big deal as far as tournaments go and it sends out a very bad message to have this sort of thing handed out where our community is represented at a high level, so I don't think there's any doubt that Wizards should be distancing themselves from it.
As for individual people who want it, that's their choice. I'm not going to say it's "offensive" or "inappropriate" for grown men (and women) who enjoy artwork like that and want it on a playmat to get their wish.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Not because it sexist.
But I guess the critique of unoriginal and ugly is trumped by SEXIST.
It also doesn't help that it is cartoony and reminds me of big johnson t-shirts.
As a commentary on Magic (and geek/gaming) society, though, it's disappointingly accurate.
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First off, let's say what the real issue is here, WOTC is a business that makes decision based on what is best for their profits and image (which ultimately just means profits). Everything else being discussed here is not relevant to the issue. They made a decision based on what they felt was best for their business. Alienating potential customers is not good for business. It is clear that some find this offensive. WOTC is simply saying "We are not going to use a potentially offensive image to promote one of our major events." That is it. Nothing else.
Society has double standards. It is based off the amalgam of everything that defines our society. If you see a man with 5 women masked and on a leash, what would you think? If you said anything other than "This man is going to be having his way sexually with these women", you don't live in the same society as the rest the world. Soul Collector isn't offensive because we define situations by the information we gather based on our own life experiences. You don't see that picture and think automatically "That woman is going to be using those men sexually." However, it is fully acceptable to say that a man with 5 women subjugated would in fact, use them sexually. That's the reality of the world we live in. It's not some neutered "everyone is equal" view because that's not reality.
In business, perception is reality. If you showed 100 random people on the street the playmat and soul collector then asked them to pick out the one that is showing people in sexual subjugation, I'm willing to be at least 90 of them say the playmat. This is the reality that WOTC deals with. The reality of our society. This brings me back to the point made by just about every intelligent person in this thread - this is not a social statement, it is a business choice by WOTC.
Secondly, Clergy En-Vec. Men in submissive poses DO exist on MTG cards.
submissiv =/= sexually submissive
First, I'd challenge your 99% figure. But this isn't the place to do that.
Second, the art mirrors human nature. For thousands of years, tens of thousands, men have been dominant over women in society. It's only been the past 20-30 years that this has been changing - and the change is artificial. It's being forced on us these days to feel that it is a sin for men to feel and act like a man, and it is a sin for women to feel and act like a woman. There are certain groups within our various societies who are pushing for the feminization of men and the masculinization of women - to what ends, I do not know. But I do know that in certain circles, men like me are not welcome because we are traditional men - we aren't "in touch with our feminine side."
It seems to me that you and others are trying to repress tens of thousands of years of human instinct, possibly because you are ashamed of what we are. And you are trying to forcibly repress that same instinct in the people around you. Unfortunately (for those like you), it's hard to repress human instinct.
Honestly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this playmat aside from the obvious art errors (such as missing feet). Unless you are someone who fears human instinct - then there is a lot wrong with this playmat.
OH wow. Read that flavor text. Hammered out by the BLOWS of unbelievers. And the pose in the picture. Wowowowowow. Clergy En-Vec
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JAMMIT DIM! I'm a DOCTOR not a DECKBUILDER!
I'm going to have to agree with the consensus here. It would have been worse if the "King" wasn't a goblin though. I'd really like to see the stats of that goblin.
That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say in a while. Nothing about the image portrays raping or utter sexual domination through fear of retribution so that point is completely invalidated. All this image protrays is a goblin, who is for all intents and purposes the low end of the totem pole in terms of species viability for anything, is finally getting his wish from the OBVIOUS temptress/genie/wishmaster on the side, to be in a position of power. He has the heads of his worst enemies at his feet, a viciously and dangerously powerful weapon to his right, the bottom of his chair is surrounded by a DRAGON, also a beautiful iteration of bringing one's hated enemies to one's feet, room surrounded by artifacts and then to top it off... A trio of obviously wanting multi specied women grovelling at his feet.
The image is nothing more the a perfect example of the lowly undeserving finally obtaining power through illicit means. Everything about it screams flavor for the scenario it is trying to depict as well as accuracy. Especially since in the time and age that this is meant to reflect, true power for any male human-like species was the ability to have any woman you wanted, a treasure trove of powerful weapons and artifacts, and dead enemies everywhere. Conan anyone?
How ANYONE could even THINK that this has anything to do with male oppression to the brink of rape is the one who has the issue. The issue of trying to find something wrong where there technically isn't anything wrong. It's an image, a drawing, a picture given out as a prize. It shouldn't reflect a business standpoint but to some people it has and now it got to the point where action was taken in regards to it.
Again I will agree with their desire to NOT take negative media attention that this will garner, specifically because of people just like you, the same people who were whining about BIOWARE's stance on Mass Effect 1, the same people who popped a nerve about Grand theft Auto's Coffee House, and the same people who will take things COMPLETELY out of context, every chance they get, only because they have the option of doing so. I respect your choose to be able to, but for the love of everything human, sensibly look at it. Dear god......rape? Really?
Standard
U// SoM/Inn Rotation Grixis Control W/L/D 22-7-2 (4-3 in 5k, Dropped 7th round)
Status: Reactivated
U// Inn/RtR Rotation Grixis Control Tournament W/L/D 3-1-0 Testing 1-0-0
Status: Active
Modern
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EDH
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