and also the fact that they stopped putting out mythics just is going to add value to the card. therefore you'll be happier if you pull one.
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For every two packs they give away the store is buying 6, just on volume it's pretty unlikely that the PRs are a complete loss for wotc.
I don't know. They're paying shipping on all those promo kits, too, as well as whatever price it costs them to produce product. It's not like 4 events a year are eating them alive or anything, but even if they are in the black for the prerelease it pretty slim for that one day. Of course, they ate that Magic Celebration thing, too, where they paid for everything. You could say that's their gift to the local game stores, along with the box promos and the FTV sets.
Who exactly in this thread said that Wizards should give out the top mythic in a set as the prerelease card? No one did.
Prerelease, release, game day, buy-a-box...THESE ALL COST MONEY. Wizards isn't giving this to you for free, the cost associated with any of these promotional cards is already factored into the cost of the event.
Oh so a page or so ago, anyone who didn't agree with you was a whiner and a spoiled brat and now you're taking it back.
I didn't say people in this thread said anything about the chase mythic. It was definately voiced loudly back when this block was being designed last year, though. You have to remember, Wizards works a year in advance. (M13 should be done and this fall's big set should be getting its finishing touches) The mythic bashing was really hitting its peak, back when titans had finally knocked off the $60 Baneslayer and the pre duel deck $45 Elspeth had rotated, but Primeval was running up to around $45, Gideon was hovering around $30 between the runs of Super Friends and Caw Blade, and Jace was around $80. There were even multiple threads about how Ajani Vengeant should be the typical model for planeswalkers, every single set so their prices would be driven into the floor. There were quite a few people that agreed that Jace 2.0 should have been the Worldwake prerelease card and Baneslayer should have been the M10 prerelease, too, if I remember correctly and we had almost weekly threads, slamming mythic rarity. It's basically the same thing as the FNM threads, every month, though. Obviously, nothing but chase uncommons from the latest set would be good enough and some people even claim that Wizards should make something like Tarmogoyf or FOW the FNM foil.
As for the tournaments costing money, though, I know that. The cost of printing a stack of promos is negligible, anyway, and they aren't abolishing the prerelase card. They're just making it rare like the other 3. The question is whether Wizards, the distributors, and the stores would make more or less money, based on the value of the prerelease card. I think they have their answers, though. They have all the data from Alara and Zendikar blocks, where the prerelease cards were unplayable in tournaments other than Emrakul and Ajani and Scars block where they were all played in tournaments besides Glissa. They also have the 3 core sets where only Sun Titan was deemed playable at prerelease time, even though Nocturnus ended up being a teir card. That's 12 prereleases from events all over the world. That should be plenty of data to make a decision, especially paired with the sales figures from the sets. They also had the tiny number of flip mythics as a excuse if they decided to change back by M13, after seeing how Innistrad did with a rare promo. I'd say 3 years of data with sample sizes in the millions is way more than enough data to make other science fields jeaous. Now, obviously, I don't have Wizards' data, but I can say with confidence that they have a seriously high volume of evidence.
It doesn't seem to be a money thing to me. Remember, WotC doesn't make anything off the secondary market, and while you could make an argument that people will buy more packs to get that cool mythic or that they want the store-owners to be happy, I don't think that those are big enough factors to do anything except tip the scale just that teeeeeeny bit more. Have you considered that they're being honest with us? That the change IS to make the mythics feel rarer and more awesome?
Oh, I know making mythics more awesome is part of it. Regardless of which ever one they picked as the prerelease card, it would screw over the people that opened more copies of the card than they wanted to an extent. I never meant to imply that profit was the only motivation, just that it can add to their bottom line. I was more trying to shoot down the claim that bumping the prerelease card down a rarity is going to make Wizards less money. If people decide to skip the prerelease because they hate the promo, they're sticking it to their local store, not Wizards.
As for the secondary market, though, it makes Wizards money as long as a set is in print. All those single cards have to come from sealed product, right?
Why are you guys so startled about no more mythics for prereleases you went along fine before there were mythics how is this any different?
Because the rares from generations ago were parititioned into two classes: Mythic and new Rare. Now, a card that was a rare in the past will be classified as a mythic. If the policy is that only rares are prerelease promos, then the types of cards available to be chosen as promos for players is significantly restricted.
In my opinion, the best example here is M10. The titans were WotC's showcase cards of the set. It certainly was a fantastic idea to give out one of the showcase cards as a prerelease promo. Then everyone gets to play with a Titan. And by playing with a titan, they will almost inevitable want to collect the rest of the cycle too. I know that was the case with me. In addition, since it's a promo, no one has to feel bitter or classified as a "have-not" because "they didn't get lucky and open the overpowered super rare card", since everyone gets one as a promo. Seriously, offering these cards as a promo is pretty much a stroke of genius. And they did the same thing in Rise of Eldrazi with the legendary Eldrazi and New Phyrexia with the praetors, which was great! If we accept this new restriction, none of those great promos will be available again in the future.
I, for one, think it's an incredibly bad idea to put this restriction on promos, since giving away one piece of a showcase cycle is fun and profitable for everyone. As a separate issue, the rare promos from the two most recent sets (INN and DA) were both very boring, so it seems like downgrade in rarity was chosen to further decrease card playability, thus seeming to shaft the players even more.
Mythics already feel mysterious, powerful, rare, and just generally epic. I'd rather wizards empower their players by giving everyone the chance to play with powerful, fun Mythics (not necessarily "The Chase Mythic" of the set), instead of furthering what lots of people already see as the problem with mythics: the partitioning of magic players into the "Haves" and the "Have-nots". We already get enough of that in the real world.
I think It that Betrays, a Chancellor, and Phylactery Lich would have been pretty cool, too. It that Betrays is probably even more powerful than any titan but Emrakul if you cheat it into play. The Chancellors are really neat because there are only 15 cards that do anything before the game (9 Leylines, 5 Chancellors, and Gemstone Caverns) Sure, the Lich didn't pan out, but it looked pretty cool, going into Mirrodin again.
As for the Innistrad block promos, there aren't very many flip rares to pick from. Flip cards are their baby and they didn't include them anywhere other than the prerelease/release card. They also had to do the obligatory werewolf. Innistrad's only other choice was a vampire lord and they already did that for M10 and M12. I'd assume DKA's other choice was the Binding Blade and the prerelease/release promos are almost all creatures. Besides, the fans of unnecessarily big fat rarely get a promo. Wizards does a really nice job of trying to cater to all the different kinds of Magic players and it's not like you can do that with one card. There's also no other way to print casual promos than to award them at tournaments. It's not like Wizards has any way of actually tracking down all the individual members of the casual population. Just because you don't like big, dumb fat or werewolves doesn't mean no one does. They'll still make decent trade fodder if you don't want them.
I didn't say people in this thread said anything about the chase mythic. It was definately voiced loudly back when this block was being designed last year, though. You have to remember, Wizards works a year in advance. (M13 should be done and this fall's big set should be getting its finishing touches) The mythic bashing was really hitting its peak, back when titans had finally knocked off the $60 Baneslayer and the pre duel deck $45 Elspeth had rotated, but Primeval was running up to around $45, Gideon was hovering around $30 between the runs of Super Friends and Caw Blade, and Jace was around $80. There were even multiple threads about how Ajani Vengeant should be the typical model for planeswalkers, every single set so their prices would be driven into the floor. There were quite a few people that agreed that Jace 2.0 should have been the Worldwake prerelease card and Baneslayer should have been the M10 prerelease, too, if I remember correctly and we had almost weekly threads, slamming mythic rarity. It's basically the same thing as the FNM threads, every month, though. Obviously, nothing but chase uncommons from the latest set would be good enough and some people even claim that Wizards should make something like Tarmogoyf or FOW the FNM foil.
So you're claiming people are whining and being spoiled brats and want the prerelease promo to be the chase mythic are in the set but you're not going to cite anyone in this specific thread but different threads from over the years? I bet you did great on the debate team.
As for the tournaments costing money, though, I know that. The cost of printing a stack of promos is negligible, anyway, and they aren't abolishing the prerelase card. They're just making it rare like the other 3. The question is whether Wizards, the distributors, and the stores would make more or less money, based on the value of the prerelease card. I think they have their answers, though. They have all the data from Alara and Zendikar blocks, where the prerelease cards were unplayable in tournaments other than Emrakul and Ajani and Scars block where they were all played in tournaments besides Glissa. They also have the 3 core sets where only Sun Titan was deemed playable at prerelease time, even though Nocturnus ended up being a teir card. That's 12 prereleases from events all over the world. That should be plenty of data to make a decision, especially paired with the sales figures from the sets. They also had the tiny number of flip mythics as a excuse if they decided to change back by M13, after seeing how Innistrad did with a rare promo. I'd say 3 years of data with sample sizes in the millions is way more than enough data to make other science fields jeaous. Now, obviously, I don't have Wizards' data, but I can say with confidence that they have a seriously high volume of evidence.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
Hm, if their reasoning is correct and it does lower their actual rarity, just think about how much more expensive Wurmcoil Engine or Hero of Bladehold would be. No me gusta.
So you're claiming people are whining and being spoiled brats and want the prerelease promo to be the chase mythic are in the set but you're not going to cite anyone in this specific thread but different threads from over the years? I bet you did great on the debate team.
I'm not really sure where you're going with this. Considering the decision had to have been made last year, it seems more than reasonable to consider what was happening in the real world back at that time. It's the same reason why Obstinate Baloth, Great Sable Stag, Volcanic Fallout, Scattershot Archer, Despise, Jace, the Mindsculptor, Garruk Wildspeaker, Wall of Omens and Hex Parasite exist. Baloth is the Jund answer, Stag, Fallout, and Archer are for Faeries, Despise and Parasite are for the year of the planeswalker, Garruk is for "green sucks," Wall is for "white sucks," and Jace 2.0 is for "blue sucks." I'd assume Obliterator, and the planeswalker answers both being black are the response to "black sucks" even though they haven't seen much play. The earliest Wizards can respond to card set complaints is in the first set that hasn't been finalized. It's not something they can change any time soon, unlike oracle text, tweaking PWP or the tournament rules for manadatory triggers.
I think its pretty obvious that they stopped giving out mythics so that entices people to buy more product. But thats normal. WOTC is a business and hence want to make money.
Well, M10 did turn into a disaster, but that was kind of unavoidable. There was no way of knowing how well the first core set with new cards would sell. Worldwake didn't really have a chance, though. It only had the one mythic that was tournament quality. I love the set to death, but with the short draft season and Jace running away like Tarmogoyf 2.0, another run probably would have sat in the warehouse, since enough had already been opened to tank everything else into the floor.
The booster boxes where selling for over $200 apiece, they could have easily sold much more world wake and probably m10 it also cost them nothing to make more mtgo boosters. If they didn't have a shut off date when they would no longer print sets, and open back up redemption for sets like m10 and world-wake they could earn more with out taking from their player base.
Also if they are really worried about the mythicness of cards then the shouldn't print cards like Lotus cobra, BSA, Vengievine, Vorapede ect... at Mythic.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I'm not really sure where you're going with this. Considering the decision had to have been made last year, it seems more than reasonable to consider what was happening in the real world back at that time. It's the same reason why Obstinate Baloth, Great Sable Stag, Volcanic Fallout, Scattershot Archer, Despise, Jace, the Mindsculptor, Garruk Wildspeaker, Wall of Omens and Hex Parasite exist. Baloth is the Jund answer, Stag, Fallout, and Archer are for Faeries, Despise and Parasite are for the year of the planeswalker, Garruk is for "green sucks," Wall is for "white sucks," and Jace 2.0 is for "blue sucks." I'd assume Obliterator, and the planeswalker answers both being black are the response to "black sucks" even though they haven't seen much play. The earliest Wizards can respond to card set complaints is in the first set that hasn't been finalized. It's not something they can change any time soon, unlike oracle text, tweaking PWP or the tournament rules for manadatory triggers.
What you responded with and what you quoted one me have nothing to do with each other at all. I'm done even wasting time trying to reply to you.
I'm annoyed by this shift in policy mostly because the justification given (that such promos lower the "mythicness" of the cards) doesn't hold up well at all; as others have pointed out this same argument could be applied to rares. Therefore, I read this announcement as either being made disingenuously, or as an indicator that Wizards no longer views rares as special, a new mindset that would imply 87.5% of packs have nothing important in them.
That being said, I personally don't mind if a pre-release or release promo is rare or mythic so long as it is cool and emblematic of the set (and at least somewhat playable. Look at Innistrad. The Mayor was a great selection as it revealed the DFC cards and made people excited about werewolves, while promising to be a lynchpin of any potential werewolf deck (whether or not such a deck did or will emerge is a different issue. In contrast, Ludevic's Test Subject is the recent promo I absolutely cannot stand, mostly because the card has no reason to be DFC and thus is a horrible promotion for the set.
I don't think either of the Dark Ascension cards being given out are good (and would much rather the Chalice replace one of them) but they are at least somewhat flavorful.
I agree that I don't mind if they did prerelease selection on a case by case basis. The reason why I wasn't upset about Mayor being INN's prerelease card was because the information they gave us at the time was they wanted a card that showcased the DFC mechanic and the only one at mythic rarity was Garruk. I understand them not wanting to give out planeswalkers as prerelease promos so it made sense and Mayor was a cool card. Now that they're saying it's for "mythic flavor" and they're only to be rare from now I hope this comes back to bite them in the butt. Between not having drafts at prereleases, DKA only being 3x in the sealed format and now this I don't really see a lot of appeal to the prerelease for the majority of people.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
I'm kind of torn between this decision :/
For one I have enjoyed seeing some powerful and popular played cards show up with shiny alternate arts such as wurmcoil or hero of bladehold.. Mayor was disappointing to me as I couldn't see myself playing it. Flavor to the set but not powerful enough for multiple decks. I enjoy chasing mythics which is the only reason I can settle for this. ;/
but I hope they start pushing the rares that matter and can become diverse to multiple strategies..
So the reasonning is :
i) Giving out mythic rares lowers their actual rarity.
ii) So let's give out rares instead.
But giving out rares doesn't lower their actual rarity ?
The truth is that Wizards doesn't want to give out chased cards, that is good tournament staples.
And most of mythics are tournament staples.
They were not going to give out Snapcaster mages either...
I honestly don't know why they just don't go back to giving out one of the best uncommons in the set as the pre-release and if they feel it needs to be special then how about giving it away as a full art textless. Guess what you have something very unique and sought after without bringing down the rarity of a rare or mythic rare.
Mythic rares made me like Magic less, since it was harder to get the cards I wanted. Before, a chase rare was $20-25, and now they are $40-50. I cut drafting, as the new "4 sets a year with smaller card pools" meant that the drafts were less interesting, with less variety. The only events I still went to were prereleases, because at least I got a mythic out of it.
If the only cards you wanted are Mythic rares, sure. If you're also interested by rares, their average prize plummeted and they never been so easy to get.
Like those cheap fetch lands, oh wait, or the cheap phyrexian dual lands, oh wait, or cheap snapcaster oh wait.
You only get cheap rares when you have staple mythics and saving a couple of bucks on the cards is not worth $30,$40,$50,$100 cards.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
really .... when Mythic were released rares plummeted but after a short time mythic kept their absurd price tags, but rares went back to old prices...
most mythics drop in price like a hot potatoe unless they are greatly sought after like tezzeret agent of bolas was like a 30 or 40 dollar mythic now its like an 11 or 12 dollar card and many mythics not deemed standard staples usually are like 4 to 5 dollars maybe a little more or little less
really .... when Mythic were released rares plummeted but after a short time mythic kept their absurd price tags, but rares went back to old prices...
Think for a second what you're saying here. If more packs are opened because of Mythics, there are more regular rares in circulation and their price must come down. If Mythics don't cause more packs to be opened, then their existence clearly cannot be cash grab by WOTC.
Most people got soured on Mythics by JTMS because after Jund rotated out, Worldwake had no other playable Mythics and only two staple rares in it that Jace's existence could reduce in price. (Colonnade and SFM)
Well here is the list of mythic pre-release cards.
Seems that about 50% or less were useful in competitive and of those not many were useful in more then a deck or two.
The pre-release card was always pushed towards the more casual magic player. That is why stuff like Mirrodin block was the Kaldra cycle and we see big creatures for a good 50% of all pre-release cards ever made.
Indeed, all of those are cheaper than the similar staple rares of the Pre-Mythic era, even without counting in actual € (people seems to forget that there is an exponential inflation when they compare prizes from different years...).
Lands in sets with out staple mythics.
New fetches over $10, mirroden duals $5-$11(have not hit their peak yet).
lands in sets with staple mythics.
Mana lands $5
Core duals first printing $4-$6
Their are the core duals but the have been reprinted to death in sets with new cards, something the never did pre-mythic.
Also compare,
blinkmoth nexus $8,
inkmoth $12
So other than the ravnica duals, which where the most popular duals since the originals, the new mana fixing rares are not cheaper than their pre-mythic counter parts unless paired with expensive mythics.
No. You don't need a 200€+ mana base in STD, for example
You never needed a 200€ mana base before, their where some decks during ravnica that had mana basses close to that, but thier where plenty of tier 1 decks that did not.
Most people got soured on Mythics by JTMS because after Jund rotated out, Worldwake had no other playable Mythics and only two staple rares in it that Jace's existence could reduce in price. (Colonnade and SFM)
Jace took over before Jund rotated. For about the first 6 months of play the most of the manlands saw more play than jace, but they did nothing to slow down his price. Abyssal Persecutor and Avenger of Zendikar did as much to to hamper Jace's vaule as any of the manlands did.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
So other than the ravnica duals, which where the most popular duals since the originals, the new mana fixing rares are not cheaper than their pre-mythic counter parts unless paired with expensive mythics.
The reason why cards fetch prices higher now is the game is more popular then it was.
Umezawas Jitte despite being basically the only chase rare out of the entire set of Betrayers of Kamigawa never fetched a ridiculous price.
It was like a 10-15 dollar card at best.
Even if we had the same exact set printed today assuming Kamigawa block happened now and not back in 2004 the card would be worth at least 20-30 as a rare.
Prices are supply and demand focused not purely rarity based. Rarity does matter somewhat obviously no matter how good a common is it will never hit more then a buck at the extreme.
The fact remains though that the reason why we are seeing cards hit prices never before is demand is higher then ever before. Formats like Commander have given more people an entry point to the game if they don't enjoy the tournament scene so therefore more cards are in demand.
I think it has to do with 25% of those cards where one of the top two cards in their set.
I know Vampire Nocturnus was top two, but price wise the other three seemed average. Those were during my break in playing, so maybe I'm wrong there.The other nine aren't really top two in any of their sets.
Rampaging Baloths weren't even close to top five.
Comet Storm, same as above.
Emrakul, Gideon and Veggie says hi!
Sun Titan isn't even the second best titan!
Wurmcoil could be. Not top two when Scars came out, but is making an impact over the last six months or so.
Glissa isn't even close.
Hero of Bladehold is making up for lost time but will never have more of an impact on the game and your wallet like SoFaF and Consecrated Sphinx. Not to mention Tezz just being stupid price wise for awhile and Thrun making up some ground in the game and wallet.
Sheoldred just barely makes it in the top five imo. Some would argue over Obliterator and I could go either way there.
Bloodlord, only thing that stops this form being last mythic wise is one of the worst mythics to ever be printed, aka Time Reversal.
I could be wrong in the earlier ones. If that is the case, then Wizards has done an ok job correcting an issue that was during the Alara block.
The reason why cards fetch prices higher now is the game is more popular then it was.
Umezawas Jitte despite being basically the only chase rare out of the entire set of Betrayers of Kamigawa never fetched a ridiculous price.
It was like a 10-15 dollar card at best.
Even if we had the same exact set printed today assuming Kamigawa block happened now and not back in 2004 the card would be worth at least 20-30 as a rare.
Prices are supply and demand focused not purely rarity based. Rarity does matter somewhat obviously no matter how good a common is it will never hit more then a buck at the extreme.
The fact remains though that the reason why we are seeing cards hit prices never before is demand is higher then ever before. Formats like Commander have given more people an entry point to the game if they don't enjoy the tournament scene so therefore more cards are in demand.
Jitte was around $20-25 as a precon rare back when no one really liked standard. That's pretty ridiculous; if Jtms had been an intro deck card and a rare that's probably about where it would've been.
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Jitte was around $20-25 as a precon rare back when no one really liked standard. That's pretty ridiculous; if Jtms had been an intro deck card and a rare that's probably about where it would've been.
Well my memory might be a bit off but I don't recall it staying that high very long.
I mean during its peak I can see 20-25 but kind of like how Tarmo peaked at 50-60 at the very highest while in T2.
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I didn't say people in this thread said anything about the chase mythic. It was definately voiced loudly back when this block was being designed last year, though. You have to remember, Wizards works a year in advance. (M13 should be done and this fall's big set should be getting its finishing touches) The mythic bashing was really hitting its peak, back when titans had finally knocked off the $60 Baneslayer and the pre duel deck $45 Elspeth had rotated, but Primeval was running up to around $45, Gideon was hovering around $30 between the runs of Super Friends and Caw Blade, and Jace was around $80. There were even multiple threads about how Ajani Vengeant should be the typical model for planeswalkers, every single set so their prices would be driven into the floor. There were quite a few people that agreed that Jace 2.0 should have been the Worldwake prerelease card and Baneslayer should have been the M10 prerelease, too, if I remember correctly and we had almost weekly threads, slamming mythic rarity. It's basically the same thing as the FNM threads, every month, though. Obviously, nothing but chase uncommons from the latest set would be good enough and some people even claim that Wizards should make something like Tarmogoyf or FOW the FNM foil.
As for the tournaments costing money, though, I know that. The cost of printing a stack of promos is negligible, anyway, and they aren't abolishing the prerelase card. They're just making it rare like the other 3. The question is whether Wizards, the distributors, and the stores would make more or less money, based on the value of the prerelease card. I think they have their answers, though. They have all the data from Alara and Zendikar blocks, where the prerelease cards were unplayable in tournaments other than Emrakul and Ajani and Scars block where they were all played in tournaments besides Glissa. They also have the 3 core sets where only Sun Titan was deemed playable at prerelease time, even though Nocturnus ended up being a teir card. That's 12 prereleases from events all over the world. That should be plenty of data to make a decision, especially paired with the sales figures from the sets. They also had the tiny number of flip mythics as a excuse if they decided to change back by M13, after seeing how Innistrad did with a rare promo. I'd say 3 years of data with sample sizes in the millions is way more than enough data to make other science fields jeaous. Now, obviously, I don't have Wizards' data, but I can say with confidence that they have a seriously high volume of evidence.
As for the secondary market, though, it makes Wizards money as long as a set is in print. All those single cards have to come from sealed product, right?
Because the rares from generations ago were parititioned into two classes: Mythic and new Rare. Now, a card that was a rare in the past will be classified as a mythic. If the policy is that only rares are prerelease promos, then the types of cards available to be chosen as promos for players is significantly restricted.
In my opinion, the best example here is M10. The titans were WotC's showcase cards of the set. It certainly was a fantastic idea to give out one of the showcase cards as a prerelease promo. Then everyone gets to play with a Titan. And by playing with a titan, they will almost inevitable want to collect the rest of the cycle too. I know that was the case with me. In addition, since it's a promo, no one has to feel bitter or classified as a "have-not" because "they didn't get lucky and open the overpowered super rare card", since everyone gets one as a promo. Seriously, offering these cards as a promo is pretty much a stroke of genius. And they did the same thing in Rise of Eldrazi with the legendary Eldrazi and New Phyrexia with the praetors, which was great! If we accept this new restriction, none of those great promos will be available again in the future.
I, for one, think it's an incredibly bad idea to put this restriction on promos, since giving away one piece of a showcase cycle is fun and profitable for everyone. As a separate issue, the rare promos from the two most recent sets (INN and DA) were both very boring, so it seems like downgrade in rarity was chosen to further decrease card playability, thus seeming to shaft the players even more.
Mythics already feel mysterious, powerful, rare, and just generally epic. I'd rather wizards empower their players by giving everyone the chance to play with powerful, fun Mythics (not necessarily "The Chase Mythic" of the set), instead of furthering what lots of people already see as the problem with mythics: the partitioning of magic players into the "Haves" and the "Have-nots". We already get enough of that in the real world.
As for the Innistrad block promos, there aren't very many flip rares to pick from. Flip cards are their baby and they didn't include them anywhere other than the prerelease/release card. They also had to do the obligatory werewolf. Innistrad's only other choice was a vampire lord and they already did that for M10 and M12. I'd assume DKA's other choice was the Binding Blade and the prerelease/release promos are almost all creatures. Besides, the fans of unnecessarily big fat rarely get a promo. Wizards does a really nice job of trying to cater to all the different kinds of Magic players and it's not like you can do that with one card. There's also no other way to print casual promos than to award them at tournaments. It's not like Wizards has any way of actually tracking down all the individual members of the casual population. Just because you don't like big, dumb fat or werewolves doesn't mean no one does. They'll still make decent trade fodder if you don't want them.
So you're claiming people are whining and being spoiled brats and want the prerelease promo to be the chase mythic are in the set but you're not going to cite anyone in this specific thread but different threads from over the years? I bet you did great on the debate team.
This is all just speculation at best.
Who's eating crow?
Decks:
GWMidrangeGW
URBurning VengeanceUR
EDH:
URNin, the Pain ArtistUR
BROlivia VoldarenBR
WIsamaru, Hound of KondaW
RGWRith, the AwakenerRGW
WUBRGCromatWUBRG
I'm not really sure where you're going with this. Considering the decision had to have been made last year, it seems more than reasonable to consider what was happening in the real world back at that time. It's the same reason why Obstinate Baloth, Great Sable Stag, Volcanic Fallout, Scattershot Archer, Despise, Jace, the Mindsculptor, Garruk Wildspeaker, Wall of Omens and Hex Parasite exist. Baloth is the Jund answer, Stag, Fallout, and Archer are for Faeries, Despise and Parasite are for the year of the planeswalker, Garruk is for "green sucks," Wall is for "white sucks," and Jace 2.0 is for "blue sucks." I'd assume Obliterator, and the planeswalker answers both being black are the response to "black sucks" even though they haven't seen much play. The earliest Wizards can respond to card set complaints is in the first set that hasn't been finalized. It's not something they can change any time soon, unlike oracle text, tweaking PWP or the tournament rules for manadatory triggers.
It's normal.
The booster boxes where selling for over $200 apiece, they could have easily sold much more world wake and probably m10 it also cost them nothing to make more mtgo boosters. If they didn't have a shut off date when they would no longer print sets, and open back up redemption for sets like m10 and world-wake they could earn more with out taking from their player base.
Also if they are really worried about the mythicness of cards then the shouldn't print cards like Lotus cobra, BSA, Vengievine, Vorapede ect... at Mythic.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
What you responded with and what you quoted one me have nothing to do with each other at all. I'm done even wasting time trying to reply to you.
I agree that I don't mind if they did prerelease selection on a case by case basis. The reason why I wasn't upset about Mayor being INN's prerelease card was because the information they gave us at the time was they wanted a card that showcased the DFC mechanic and the only one at mythic rarity was Garruk. I understand them not wanting to give out planeswalkers as prerelease promos so it made sense and Mayor was a cool card. Now that they're saying it's for "mythic flavor" and they're only to be rare from now I hope this comes back to bite them in the butt. Between not having drafts at prereleases, DKA only being 3x in the sealed format and now this I don't really see a lot of appeal to the prerelease for the majority of people.
Who's eating crow?
For one I have enjoyed seeing some powerful and popular played cards show up with shiny alternate arts such as wurmcoil or hero of bladehold.. Mayor was disappointing to me as I couldn't see myself playing it. Flavor to the set but not powerful enough for multiple decks. I enjoy chasing mythics which is the only reason I can settle for this. ;/
but I hope they start pushing the rares that matter and can become diverse to multiple strategies..
I honestly don't know why they just don't go back to giving out one of the best uncommons in the set as the pre-release and if they feel it needs to be special then how about giving it away as a full art textless. Guess what you have something very unique and sought after without bringing down the rarity of a rare or mythic rare.
Thank you, WotC, for saving me money.
Like those cheap fetch lands, oh wait, or the cheap phyrexian dual lands, oh wait, or cheap snapcaster oh wait.
You only get cheap rares when you have staple mythics and saving a couple of bucks on the cards is not worth $30,$40,$50,$100 cards.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
most mythics drop in price like a hot potatoe unless they are greatly sought after like tezzeret agent of bolas was like a 30 or 40 dollar mythic now its like an 11 or 12 dollar card and many mythics not deemed standard staples usually are like 4 to 5 dollars maybe a little more or little less
Think for a second what you're saying here. If more packs are opened because of Mythics, there are more regular rares in circulation and their price must come down. If Mythics don't cause more packs to be opened, then their existence clearly cannot be cash grab by WOTC.
Most people got soured on Mythics by JTMS because after Jund rotated out, Worldwake had no other playable Mythics and only two staple rares in it that Jace's existence could reduce in price. (Colonnade and SFM)
Well here is the list of mythic pre-release cards.
Seems that about 50% or less were useful in competitive and of those not many were useful in more then a deck or two.
The pre-release card was always pushed towards the more casual magic player. That is why stuff like Mirrodin block was the Kaldra cycle and we see big creatures for a good 50% of all pre-release cards ever made.
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orgianl fetches $5, painlands $5, glimmervoid $9, future sight duals $5-$8 at their peaks. filter lands $5-$10, tribal lands $5. Ravnica duals $15.
Mana fixing lands after mythics
Lands in sets with out staple mythics.
New fetches over $10, mirroden duals $5-$11(have not hit their peak yet).
lands in sets with staple mythics.
Mana lands $5
Core duals first printing $4-$6
Their are the core duals but the have been reprinted to death in sets with new cards, something the never did pre-mythic.
Also compare,
blinkmoth nexus $8,
inkmoth $12
So other than the ravnica duals, which where the most popular duals since the originals, the new mana fixing rares are not cheaper than their pre-mythic counter parts unless paired with expensive mythics.
You never needed a 200€ mana base before, their where some decks during ravnica that had mana basses close to that, but thier where plenty of tier 1 decks that did not.
No they print them at mythic and they go for $15-$20.
Jace took over before Jund rotated. For about the first 6 months of play the most of the manlands saw more play than jace, but they did nothing to slow down his price. Abyssal Persecutor and Avenger of Zendikar did as much to to hamper Jace's vaule as any of the manlands did.
I think it has to do with 25% of those cards where one of the top two cards in their set.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
is it possible that they could sell more product if there was no chance that promos ended up being chase mythics?
The reason why cards fetch prices higher now is the game is more popular then it was.
Umezawas Jitte despite being basically the only chase rare out of the entire set of Betrayers of Kamigawa never fetched a ridiculous price.
It was like a 10-15 dollar card at best.
Even if we had the same exact set printed today assuming Kamigawa block happened now and not back in 2004 the card would be worth at least 20-30 as a rare.
Prices are supply and demand focused not purely rarity based. Rarity does matter somewhat obviously no matter how good a common is it will never hit more then a buck at the extreme.
The fact remains though that the reason why we are seeing cards hit prices never before is demand is higher then ever before. Formats like Commander have given more people an entry point to the game if they don't enjoy the tournament scene so therefore more cards are in demand.
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I know Vampire Nocturnus was top two, but price wise the other three seemed average. Those were during my break in playing, so maybe I'm wrong there.The other nine aren't really top two in any of their sets.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
Jitte was around $20-25 as a precon rare back when no one really liked standard. That's pretty ridiculous; if Jtms had been an intro deck card and a rare that's probably about where it would've been.
Well my memory might be a bit off but I don't recall it staying that high very long.
I mean during its peak I can see 20-25 but kind of like how Tarmo peaked at 50-60 at the very highest while in T2.
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