I agree with someone here, who said that "0 spells=night", "2 spells = day" stress uncontrolled mutation of werewolves. (it's true, they can't control it). You barely can control other players (the only way is Sorin and Mindslaver) and prevent them from casting spells..it does not depend on you, it depends on factors that you are not able to control.
I think that's actually pretty cool. Very flavorful and gives them a really distinct tribal identity.
Liliana's cool but I'm not sure she really works in the deck I want to run her in. (at that cmc)
Can't wait to use her with Noxious Revival and other goodies in order to establish complete control over the board. Now give me a good draw engine in black Wizards and my MBC deck will be incredible! Also, hoping for something among the lines of Gatekeeper of Malakir, Vampire Nighthawk, Inquisition of Kozilek and Bloodghast. Damn, that's a lot of great cards for black that'll be gone soon.
How do you figure this?
This kind of logic is like saying "all vampires" or all goblins" die to one Ratchet Bomb.
You do realize that their cmc is the human side right?
You also realize that keeping a ratchet bomb around if you get one out is not that easy either.
The back sides of transforms have no mana cost. This means they cannot be cast, and also that their CMC is 0. To kill all humans that become werewolves, you merely do not cast anything on your turn, then after their upkeep you activate ratchet bomb. Alternatively, if you see an opportunity for a 2-for-1 when they have at least two wolves intentionally (For example, if you keep casting annoying spells on your turn, so they have to sit their turn out to transform them), you can just drop the ratchet bomb and activate it in response to any removal or bounce. Two mana for a 2-for-1 in any color is a pretty sweet deal, and pretty heavy werewolf hate.
Isnt that the mythical wolf that MTG players used to always talk about?
Dark Wolf or something?
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RnD during Time Spiral:
Rosewater: "Color Pie, WTF is that, If I want Black to be able to wrath, counter and have green creatures then I will damnit!"
Random RnD guy: "RED AKORMA! FTW!"
Gleemax: "Rosewater has broken out of my mind control!"
RnD after 2008:
MaRo: Hmm how do we fix the problems of pricing with cards like Tarmogoyf and Thoughtsieze
Random RnD Guy: OO lets make a new RED RARITY SYMBOL!
MARO: OMGWTFBBQ! Thats a great idea, we'll call it Mythic Rarity!
Gleemax: NOT AGAIN! CELEB
Just putting this out there so I can come back later and "I told you so."
Liliana of the Veil is easily the best planeswalker for competitive constructed play since Jace, the Mind Sculptor. She will see play in every format in which she's legal, including Vintage.
Also, while having access to flashback cards makes Liliana's discard ability less of a drawback for you, it's important to remember that your opponent will also most likely have some cards with flashback(and/or some extra lands) to discard as well.
This would be acceptable if her ultimate was independently good. But it's not.
I suspect that this PW is just evidence of a general decline in power creep, which I am actually completely fine with. We'll see how the rest of the set goes.
I guess people have been spoiled by Planeswalkers that were just universally useful and auto-includes in every deck of their colors. I for one welcome cases like this where the Planeswalker is aggressively costed and has abilities that are not universally useful, but are very good at helping certain builds along.
Besides, in the absolute worst case scenario, this thing is Diabolic Edict for one more mana that stays on the field. But her true use remains to be seen with the rest of the block. I think she's just one Zombify away from amazing.
As for the other cards, the Fiend Hunter needs no more elaboration. It's funny that suddenly, having three toughness is no longer a death sentence for any creature. And between Moonmist and Kruin Outlaw, werewolves might just have what it takes to be a good deck.
Really wish they had used the more detailed version of the art for Lilliana. Also her first ability has potential to be really interesting should Madness make a return later in the block.
Can't believe the hate for Liliana. No, she doesn't go in every deck, but that's a good thing. She can go in a wide variety of decks though, and has some very potent abilities.
Just remember guys, Equal effects are never equal. Wrath of god, Armageddon, etc - The point is that you build around them and maximize their effects to your advantage. Depending on the junk we see in the set, Lilianna could be an absolutely amazing planeswalker.
That said, at the very least, she's a 3cmc creature kill.
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Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
You naughty Lily, I'm gonna get 2 of this babes for my BR reanimation deck =D . I also bet that the W faceless butcher will see a lot of play once the new UW control aka caw-blade-without-caw comes live
Jace bounce was a -1. He could do it 3 times before he would die. Liliana can only do it once before having to do her +1. Overall very disappointed with her unless we get Madness.
Crap, you're right, she's not as good as one of the single most overpowered cards ever printed. Unplayable!
To all the people saying Liliana isn't good, this is effectively what you're saying:
"Yeah, Gatekeeper kicked is pretty good. BUT if he could make my opponent discard next turn, and threaten the possibility of making them sac a dude again afterward while not even requiring the third black....I think he'd be only eh at best."
This is exactly what 'walkers are supposed to be. Useful in certain applications, but not a strong card in every deck that could play it. I am so unbelievably sick of almost every competitive deck needing 'walkers to work.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
To all the people saying Liliana isn't good, this is effectively what you're saying:
"Yeah, Gatekeeper kicked is pretty good. BUT if he could make my opponent discard next turn, and threaten the possibility of making them sac a dude again afterward while not even requiring the third black....I think he'd be only eh at best."
Think about it.
shhhh stop saying things that make sense!
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"I'm fairly sure if they took porn off the Internet, there'd only be one website left, and it'd be called 'Bring Back the Porn!'"
—Dr. Cox, Scrubs
Liliana. I saw the 1BB was like "!"--but then I was like "..." Kind of disappointing. If the middle was -1 we'd be in business but as is I'm not convinced.
These double-sided cards are amusing at least. But probably as much of a hassle as the old Kamigawa flip creatures are. Lots to keep track of.
Edit: if they reprint Reanimate color me impressed.
Exactly what I wanted from Liliana. Could not be more happy (unless she somehow was even better than her big self for EDH). I was guessing we'd get her as a 3-drop for a while now, and this is what'd I'd expect and want! This makes me want to play black in standard.
I think that's actually pretty cool. Very flavorful and gives them a really distinct tribal identity.
Liliana's cool but I'm not sure she really works in the deck I want to run her in. (at that cmc)
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The back sides of transforms have no mana cost. This means they cannot be cast, and also that their CMC is 0. To kill all humans that become werewolves, you merely do not cast anything on your turn, then after their upkeep you activate ratchet bomb. Alternatively, if you see an opportunity for a 2-for-1 when they have at least two wolves intentionally (For example, if you keep casting annoying spells on your turn, so they have to sit their turn out to transform them), you can just drop the ratchet bomb and activate it in response to any removal or bounce. Two mana for a 2-for-1 in any color is a pretty sweet deal, and pretty heavy werewolf hate.
Karador EDH
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Dark Wolf or something?
Rosewater: "Color Pie, WTF is that, If I want Black to be able to wrath, counter and have green creatures then I will damnit!"
Random RnD guy: "RED AKORMA! FTW!"
Gleemax: "Rosewater has broken out of my mind control!"
RnD after 2008:
MaRo: Hmm how do we fix the problems of pricing with cards like Tarmogoyf and Thoughtsieze
Random RnD Guy: OO lets make a new RED RARITY SYMBOL!
MARO: OMGWTFBBQ! Thats a great idea, we'll call it Mythic Rarity!
Gleemax: NOT AGAIN!
CELEB
Throat Wolf, the card with Firstest Strike.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Liliana of the Veil is easily the best planeswalker for competitive constructed play since Jace, the Mind Sculptor. She will see play in every format in which she's legal, including Vintage.
See you in a couple months. ;-)
White creature is good. Very good.
This would be acceptable if her ultimate was independently good. But it's not.
I suspect that this PW is just evidence of a general decline in power creep, which I am actually completely fine with. We'll see how the rest of the set goes.
She's holding it in her left hand, and it's spewing fire and light all over the place. How did you miss that?
Besides, in the absolute worst case scenario, this thing is Diabolic Edict for one more mana that stays on the field. But her true use remains to be seen with the rest of the block. I think she's just one Zombify away from amazing.
As for the other cards, the Fiend Hunter needs no more elaboration. It's funny that suddenly, having three toughness is no longer a death sentence for any creature. And between Moonmist and Kruin Outlaw, werewolves might just have what it takes to be a good deck.
Field Hunter is like Journey to Nowhere on a Stick or a Faceless Butcher, however you want to see it.
How cute is Terror of Krium Pass that it has Double Strike and can only be blocked by 2 or more creatures.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Liliana looks terrible though.
I think she's amazing. Not JTMS level, but amazing nonetheless.
dredge t.e.s. loam
- Bryant Cook
I did miss that, whoops. The fire kinda covers it up, and I guess I'm just used to her wearing it like she does in the comics when she uses it.
That said, at the very least, she's a 3cmc creature kill.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Level 2 Judge since 12/01/2012
-On Liliana of the Veil
"Yeah, Gatekeeper kicked is pretty good. BUT if he could make my opponent discard next turn, and threaten the possibility of making them sac a dude again afterward while not even requiring the third black....I think he'd be only eh at best."
Think about it.
shhhh stop saying things that make sense!
—Dr. Cox, Scrubs
These double-sided cards are amusing at least. But probably as much of a hassle as the old Kamigawa flip creatures are. Lots to keep track of.
Edit: if they reprint Reanimate color me impressed.
Liliana looks okay at least, I'll have to play with it to know exactly how I feel about it, but edict on a stick sounds good in theory any way.
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