Extended has too many stigmas attached to it to really ever attract enough players to keep it healthy. Because of that, I'm pretty sure Modern is WOTC testing the waters to see if players are interested in a new format acting as a rebooted version of Extended, without having to call it Extended (a smart move).
Well the huge difference between this format and Extend is that it shouldn't ever rotate, and like Legacy, the card pool only increases with time.
I'm a bit surprised that Jace 2 didn't make the banned list now that I'm looking back on things.
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Dredge existed (and won) several MAJOR tournaments without Onslaught cards, and all of the cards you mentioned.
They still have dread return into Iona, off of Bridge from Below, with Narcomoeba and Bloodghast.
Legacy Dredge and Extended Dredge had slightly different game plans.
I am not sure where you are getting your information from. Ichorid/Dredge decks were certainly a force in Extended in 2005 and 2006, but all of the versions used Therapy/Psychatog/Wonder/Chrome Mox/Putrid Imp/etc. and a variety of the Odyssey (not Onslaught) cards that I mentioned. The deck never existed in any form without those cards, at least not at any competitive level. Modern does not have those cards and therefore does not really have the same explosiveness of Dredge as before.
Moreover, graveyard hate is abundant in the post dredge world. Crypt, Leyline, Ravenous Trap, Relic, and a variety of other cards are sideboard staples in any metagame. This would all contribute to a taming of Dredge in the format. The GGT ban does not need to be a part of that.
Definitely not in this thread, but I'd like to have a forum for this format where we can post decklists and talk about other stuff regarding this format.
I agree. A forum to discuss archetypes of the new format would be awesome, both for increasing awareness about Modern, and for showing support for the format (not to mention figuring out the new metagame).
Many people are probably going to start with this attitude, but it really is not warranted. Legacy has a high entrance cost to start playing. The main staples are all Jace TMS price levels or higher, and to play decks without them just uncompetitive (Force of Will, Wasteland, and Duals, I am looking at you). The format also has a problem with the Reserve List which will always hang over it. Modern does not share these problems.
Just like Wizards recently printed the new tournament-competitive decks with 2 Stoneforge Mystics in them, to increase competitive players, so too can they do that with the non-reserve list staples of a Modern format. This format would not replace Legacy, but it would be a cheaper and distinct Eternal format with its own fun metagame and strategies.
Do we know of any important wizards employees read these forums? I would love to get a petition for this format going or some way to show them there is strong interest besides the one mtgo event they have going.
I am not sure where you are getting your information from. Ichorid/Dredge decks were certainly a force in Extended in 2005 and 2006, but all of the versions used Therapy/Psychatog/Wonder/Chrome Mox/Putrid Imp/etc. and a variety of the Odyssey (not Onslaught) cards that I mentioned. The deck never existed in any form without those cards, at least not at any competitive level. Modern does not have those cards and therefore does not really have the same explosiveness of Dredge as before.
Dredge CERTAINLY existed in Extended without those cards. Look at the last 'large' extended season. None of those cards (outside Chrome Mox) were legal, and I know it won at least 1 major tournament, and placed well in several others. It also won the only Extended PTQ of that season that I personally attended.
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
'Duel Lands' have ALWAYS been pricey.
$20 was (and still is) common for a single one. It sucks a lot, but they're almost necessary for any deck wanting to run more than a single color in a standard environment.
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
@Snow-Fur: Where are you finding ABUR Dual Lands for $20? The Revised Underground Sea I have would cost me around $100 if I had to replace it, and that's for a copy in bad shape.
If you have a real place where ABUR Dual Lands are under $50 a pop, they'll be out of stock if you name it and/or provide a link.
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@Snow-Fur: Where are you finding ABUR Dual Lands for $20? The Revised Underground Sea I have would cost me around $100 if I had to replace it, and that's for a copy in bad shape.
If you have a real place where ABUR Dual Lands are under $50 a pop, they'll be out of stock if you name it and/or provide a link.
He means back in the day. It really wasn't hard to find non blue ABUR duals for 20-25 even 1 year ago.
Oh wait, just saw the "still is." Yeah Snow, where are finding ABUR duals for 20?
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Vintage, Legacy, Extended, Standard, Block, Planechase, Archenemy, Commander, 2 Headed Giant, Singleton, Prismatic, Vanguard, and now Modern?
There's a point where there's too much fragmentation and it starts to turn people away. Do we really need 13 different formats, 14 if you count Draft since it has it's own set of rules?
It's not like this is easy to remember either, since a number of those have their own lists for what cards are and aren't permitted, in what quantities, and different rules sets for each.
I can't imagine being a new player now, it was easy when I started. Type 1 (Use anything), Type 1.5 (Use anything except specific cards), Extended (Type 1.5 except limited to the last 9? sets), and Standard (2 blocks + base).
It's just too much IMO.
Edit:
Given they did FTV: Relics, i can see an FTV: Lands happening soon. Just not sure how they'd do it. Only 5-6 cards in FTV sets usually break $10 otherwise these things would go on sale for $150-200 the same day. I hope they do though
Now that would be fun! Gemstone Mine, Lotus Vale, Wasteland, Strip Mine, Ravnica duals, maybe some of the old Fetches, maybe some Urza lands, maybe Lake of the Dead (Is it on the reserved list?), there's so many cool lands.
I doubt it'd be all that expensive, the only lands that are all that expensive are the Duals and maybe Wasteland. It'd be more novelty factor than anything else.
These are the only formats you need to know in order to compete at any event that puts pro tour points on the line. I didn't include Extended, as if we assume Modern is real then it will almost assuredly be phasing out Extended.
So, you have Limited, and then four Constructed formats. That's really not so insane. Obviously there are even more casual variants, but there are home-brewed variants to almost every single game I've ever heard of--that's just the nature of games.
@Gatt: You forgot Sealed. And 250. And Cube. And Casual. And Mental Magic. And Strip Magic (catching on now that more women are playing).
@Sanduleak: If you play Texas Hold 'Em, you shouldn't have any trouble playing Omaha. Going from Razz to 2-7 in an 8-Game Tournament? That can screw with your head a bit.
@P. Doughnought: Modern would not replace Extended. If it replaced any format, it would phase out Legacy as an Eternal format.
Well, MaRo is getting his wish, at any rate. There's been plenty of discussion of the proposed format so far.
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Well the huge difference between this format and Extend is that it shouldn't ever rotate, and like Legacy, the card pool only increases with time.
http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=317475478823307368#overview/src=dashboard
Like reading magic theory?
http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2901104710618966704#overview/src=dashboard
Are you a navy Nuke?
http://blueconceptnavynuke.blogspot.com/2012/08/captains-mast-at-nnptc.html
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Legacy is expensive lol.
Cube 360 cards, unpowered.
Modern:
URStormUR
Block
RWHumansRW
URGStalkerURG
I am not sure where you are getting your information from. Ichorid/Dredge decks were certainly a force in Extended in 2005 and 2006, but all of the versions used Therapy/Psychatog/Wonder/Chrome Mox/Putrid Imp/etc. and a variety of the Odyssey (not Onslaught) cards that I mentioned. The deck never existed in any form without those cards, at least not at any competitive level. Modern does not have those cards and therefore does not really have the same explosiveness of Dredge as before.
Moreover, graveyard hate is abundant in the post dredge world. Crypt, Leyline, Ravenous Trap, Relic, and a variety of other cards are sideboard staples in any metagame. This would all contribute to a taming of Dredge in the format. The GGT ban does not need to be a part of that.
I agree. A forum to discuss archetypes of the new format would be awesome, both for increasing awareness about Modern, and for showing support for the format (not to mention figuring out the new metagame).
Many people are probably going to start with this attitude, but it really is not warranted. Legacy has a high entrance cost to start playing. The main staples are all Jace TMS price levels or higher, and to play decks without them just uncompetitive (Force of Will, Wasteland, and Duals, I am looking at you). The format also has a problem with the Reserve List which will always hang over it. Modern does not share these problems.
Just like Wizards recently printed the new tournament-competitive decks with 2 Stoneforge Mystics in them, to increase competitive players, so too can they do that with the non-reserve list staples of a Modern format. This format would not replace Legacy, but it would be a cheaper and distinct Eternal format with its own fun metagame and strategies.
-ktkenshinx-
And so will this if things take off. I'm just thrilled I got my RAV duals I needed when they were under $10...
Except the duals wont get anywhere near abu prices, and this format would have the benefit of no reserve list.
Just saying.
Cube 360 cards, unpowered.
Modern:
URStormUR
Block
RWHumansRW
URGStalkerURG
URThe Joy of Painting with Nin, the Pain Artist!UR
Mishra Cruel Control
BUR Thraximundar
RBGMy Trades!UWX
Dredge CERTAINLY existed in Extended without those cards. Look at the last 'large' extended season. None of those cards (outside Chrome Mox) were legal, and I know it won at least 1 major tournament, and placed well in several others. It also won the only Extended PTQ of that season that I personally attended.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
And I agree... but I don't think anyone thought they'd be forking over $75-100 for dual lands and Forces a year ago.
$20 was (and still is) common for a single one. It sucks a lot, but they're almost necessary for any deck wanting to run more than a single color in a standard environment.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
If you have a real place where ABUR Dual Lands are under $50 a pop, they'll be out of stock if you name it and/or provide a link.
[Modern] Double Strike
He means back in the day. It really wasn't hard to find non blue ABUR duals for 20-25 even 1 year ago.
Oh wait, just saw the "still is." Yeah Snow, where are finding ABUR duals for 20?
[Modern] Doran Aggro-Control / Rock / Junk
I'm pretty sure he meant the Ravnica duals.
Cube 360 cards, unpowered.
Modern:
URStormUR
Block
RWHumansRW
URGStalkerURG
Really any of the 'duals' from Invasion and up.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Goyf is a fat creature. Chrome Mox is a combo piece. R&D loves one and hates the other. Guess which is which.
Vintage, Legacy, Extended, Standard, Block, Planechase, Archenemy, Commander, 2 Headed Giant, Singleton, Prismatic, Vanguard, and now Modern?
There's a point where there's too much fragmentation and it starts to turn people away. Do we really need 13 different formats, 14 if you count Draft since it has it's own set of rules?
It's not like this is easy to remember either, since a number of those have their own lists for what cards are and aren't permitted, in what quantities, and different rules sets for each.
I can't imagine being a new player now, it was easy when I started. Type 1 (Use anything), Type 1.5 (Use anything except specific cards), Extended (Type 1.5 except limited to the last 9? sets), and Standard (2 blocks + base).
It's just too much IMO.
Edit:
Now that would be fun! Gemstone Mine, Lotus Vale, Wasteland, Strip Mine, Ravnica duals, maybe some of the old Fetches, maybe some Urza lands, maybe Lake of the Dead (Is it on the reserved list?), there's so many cool lands.
I doubt it'd be all that expensive, the only lands that are all that expensive are the Duals and maybe Wasteland. It'd be more novelty factor than anything else.
Sealed
Draft
Constructed:
Legacy
Modern
Standard
Block
These are the only formats you need to know in order to compete at any event that puts pro tour points on the line. I didn't include Extended, as if we assume Modern is real then it will almost assuredly be phasing out Extended.
So, you have Limited, and then four Constructed formats. That's really not so insane. Obviously there are even more casual variants, but there are home-brewed variants to almost every single game I've ever heard of--that's just the nature of games.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
@Sanduleak: If you play Texas Hold 'Em, you shouldn't have any trouble playing Omaha. Going from Razz to 2-7 in an 8-Game Tournament? That can screw with your head a bit.
@P. Doughnought: Modern would not replace Extended. If it replaced any format, it would phase out Legacy as an Eternal format.
Well, MaRo is getting his wish, at any rate. There's been plenty of discussion of the proposed format so far.