Mind Sculptor+Fetchlands=Absurd card advantage compared to original Jace. In any form of multicolor deck that includes blue, Jace is going to be a fairly big player.
Of course, it also has semi-removal on a stick attached to it. If your opponent resolves something when you've tapped out with Jace, the next turn you can most likely just bounce it back and have counter mana open.
This new Jace might even make Cancel viable in Standard!
...But in all seriousness, you actually have a good point.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Seriously people, if you think about it, Jace is not a reprint of Brainstorm. Brainstorm is a cantrip because it gives you 3 cards for 3 cards (the two that you return to the library plus the card itself). When you cast Jace and use it for the first time, it's sort of a cantrip because you get 3 cards for 3 cards, but not really since you still have a 3 loyalty "blocker" on the board.
Based on the first iteration of Jace, I figured they wouldn't give an Impulse or Brainstorm effect as a plus loyalty ability because you have to spend [-1] loyalty on the first to get an Obsessive Search/Peek like effect. [0]: Draw one of the top 3 cards on your library and filter the rest is a LOT stronger than [-1]: Draw the top card. So for one more mana, the new Jace is a LOT stronger than the old Jace. However, 4 mana is a LOT more than 3, so we'll see if the power boost is worth it. You can continuously use the new Jace to get card advantage without having to refuel him with loyalty and give your opponent a card! Sure if you want to play it safe you can Scry/Opt or Fateseal 1 and then just have free card advantage for the rest of the game. And as some other people posted, he is pretty insane with Fetchlands: the effect is pretty darn close to Ancestral Recall/Visions!
If Jace's ability was [0]: Draw 3 then put 3 back on top, giving you a true cantrip/filter effect, I doubt people would be so excited.
And [-1]: Unsummon is a pretty random ability I think. I liked the posts people made about him being a mind sculptor so all his abilities should reflect hand/library manipulation. Kind of a moot point now, but I was thinking his abilities were going to be something like the following:
2UU
[+2]: Opt
[-2]: Impulse (but better because it's not a cantrip!)
[-X]: Bribery a creature with CMC X or less.
[?]: Ultimate
[4] loyalty to start, making him pretty respectable, as you'd get at least 2 Impulses for 1U + 1U or a decent copy of Bribery.
first off, wow, just over a day and 16 pages of posts to go through
second, I would love to use this card in a deck
third, is this going to make control more viable, no, not alone
-Why is it good, it is a threat that the opponent must deal with or get run over by card advantage/ continuous versitility, if an opponent is not ready for it this jace will bring you one step closer to victory. if the oppenent is ready, you didnt lose much if anything.
-Why is it not so good, the oppenent, in this standard, will have an answer. there are very few decks currently with out an answer. Also there is still not enough information on the rest of worldwake to see if there are enough control elements to back up jace. Just like baneslayer, Jace can not win alone.
Lastly. A planeswalker with four versitile abilities and amazing art, this is something i want
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Generation 472: The first time you see this, add it to your sig, but add 1 to the number. Call it a social experiment.
All I know is, I will be getting the foil plus a few extras. For EDH. He might be good in standard if he gets some support in WWK - but he needs that support! He's almost there!
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I must be mistaken because it seems to me you are saying that Jace, Mind Sculptor is good enough for legacy.
Legacy is a much more open format than you seem to believe. And yes he will absolutely see play in legacy as he serves as a good hoser for some popular strategies and in at least one deck is absolutely going to be backbreaking and incredibly frustrating to deal with. Some of the possibilities for Mindsculptor in legacy:
1. Screwing over countertop players in at least 2 ways. First his 4 cmc makes him difficult too catch with the countertop engine. Second his +2 ability forces the countertop player to keep at least 2 mana open in order to ensure he has the resources to protect the key cards for countering other spells and be able to get them back when theyre needed then add in one more if they want to give themselves smoother draws
2. He breaks Tarmogoyf stalemates wide open by repeatedly bouncing the opposing Tarmogoyf forcing bad blocks
3. He increases the chances for Dark Confidant to hurt the opponent for their free card and if they have sensei's divining top he creates the same scenario as countertop
4. Ultimate Walker deck will make people cry by constantly denying them their answers by fateseal and bounce while elspeth and vengeant beat the opponent down. Or he will give the deck many more opportunities to hit hte cards they need
5. Protects your key cards from duress every turn
6. Bounce Dark Depths tokens after saccing the Hexmage
7. While he isnt likely to see play in dredge decks he provides 4 opportunities to dredge each turn
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
From MaRo
Every rarity gets good cards. That means that some mythic rares will be tournament quality as will some commons, some uncommons and some rares. My promise wasn't that mythic rares wouldn't get good cards but that we wouldn't limit the good cards to only being mythic rare.
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
You might as well just brainstorm for the card advantage [instead of +2ing], since you get to look at 2 new cards.
We'll see what the rest of Worldwake has to offer before we know if this is playable or not in Standard. There's the issue of having enough board position first, then hoping that the opponent also doesn't have anything. Using it as a win con is a bit weak, since a dedicated mill deck will do better anyways.
Like all Planeswalkers though, if it sticks it'll definitely eventually overpower the opponent due to CA and card quality at the same time. Digging 2 cards (without additional draw) after the first brainstorm each turn ensures you almost always find your answer in the form of counter spells or removal.
Of course, it also has semi-removal on a stick attached to it. If your opponent resolves something when you've tapped out with Jace, the next turn you can most likely just bounce it back and have counter mana open.
True, you get to se 2 new cards, but I'd prefer getting Jace out of bolt range and keep him there as well Plus, if your hand is already good enough at that moment, you might as well give your Jace some extra loyalty.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
So here I am
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
Please let this herald the reintroduction of traditional control in standard.
I loved Lorwyn and Shadowmoor, but the light CMC aggro and creature-based style that they introduced has wholly supplanted a style of play that I really enjoy. It would be lovely if the blue or blue/black control deck can come back into standard without a reliance on creatures. I can only hope that Wizards intends to make this viable, having spent so much time on creature and, to a lesser extent, burn styled play.
Wow this is really really good and will be a frustrating card to play against. If blue had anything else... like say a good counterspell or 2 it would bring blue back to the top. Unfortunately, blue is too weak atm to help even a card this good.
First, his 0: It's not a brainstorm; not instant, not 1 U, but the effect is decent. IMO the +2 and -1 are what make the card good. Once you have board position with jace in play and you begin fatesealing every turn it won't be long (actually it will be long... games with Jace will now always go to time) before your opponent scoops. Especially the -1 though, that's the best one by far.
He's really slow, fast decks like RDW or Boros prolly won't fear him much, but he needs other cards to make him good -- path, day, bolt, quake, ajani, i think he's certainly viable. Again tho, blue can't really protect him very well. Jace needs another color (or two).
Legacy tho? Very doubtful. Legacy has better blue cards like the *real* brainstorm. But, he IS blue and as such is pitchable to force, so if nothing else, he's got that.
the picture reminds me a lot time stretch. As for jace himself, he is really cool but why would you always brainstorm, not saying that it is a bad ability, in fact it's great, but you would want to maybe fateseal your opponent then maybe unsummon a pesty Baneslayer. MAybe if it is really late in the game, you can fire off the ultimate to basically kill and win. I can see him being used in many different color schemes. UB or UW or just blue control. IF he really wants to flourish, he'll have to wait until most of jund is gone and the new core set will help assuming they don't reprint the lightning bolt. Cool card and love him.
I'm probably one of the worst at predicting the viability of a card in a format, but there's not much chance I'll be letting this card into my standard 60 line up. I'm already a bad at making my own decks, I don't need any help from this card making me look like a dumbass for playing it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not playing much these days... hope all is well in the MtG community
EDH:
Zur, The Enchanter
Modern:
Burn
Legacy:
Cheeri0s
Burn
Or depend if he's alone... I heard Gatekeeper loved hunting single stags.
Especially with repeatable unsummon, malakir gatekeeper is going to be a very strong stag killer. The deck would be weak against swarms of creatures, probably, but if black gets a better sweeper that weakness might go away...
Control will need a way to fix its mana, 1 good instant card drawing spell, and have some reliable sweepers, i.e. always draw it by turn 4 and cast it without it being disrupted. Day of Judgment might not be enough.
But in terms of long term card advantage and a finisher, Jace provides it all in a very, very cheap package. For 2UU, in combination with Fetchlands, the 0 card draw is very close to Ancestral Visions: you net only 1 card vs 2, but you still get to keep the best 3 and shuffle the excess land/chaff away. Buehler would have killed for a card like this in CMU Blue: waaaaay better than Whispers with Buyback.
With Jace active in the mid-game and endgame, you will always draw land + spell or all gas if you need it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Not even close but keep trying.
This new Jace might even make Cancel viable in Standard!
...But in all seriousness, you actually have a good point.
Yeah, Legacy would tear Jace a new one.
Based on the first iteration of Jace, I figured they wouldn't give an Impulse or Brainstorm effect as a plus loyalty ability because you have to spend [-1] loyalty on the first to get an Obsessive Search/Peek like effect. [0]: Draw one of the top 3 cards on your library and filter the rest is a LOT stronger than [-1]: Draw the top card. So for one more mana, the new Jace is a LOT stronger than the old Jace. However, 4 mana is a LOT more than 3, so we'll see if the power boost is worth it. You can continuously use the new Jace to get card advantage without having to refuel him with loyalty and give your opponent a card! Sure if you want to play it safe you can Scry/Opt or Fateseal 1 and then just have free card advantage for the rest of the game. And as some other people posted, he is pretty insane with Fetchlands: the effect is pretty darn close to Ancestral Recall/Visions!
If Jace's ability was [0]: Draw 3 then put 3 back on top, giving you a true cantrip/filter effect, I doubt people would be so excited.
And [-1]: Unsummon is a pretty random ability I think. I liked the posts people made about him being a mind sculptor so all his abilities should reflect hand/library manipulation. Kind of a moot point now, but I was thinking his abilities were going to be something like the following:
2UU
[+2]: Opt
[-2]: Impulse (but better because it's not a cantrip!)
[-X]: Bribery a creature with CMC X or less.
[?]: Ultimate
[4] loyalty to start, making him pretty respectable, as you'd get at least 2 Impulses for 1U + 1U or a decent copy of Bribery.
meh elspeth sees light legacy play but endless brainstorm is not an effect to scoff at.
second, I would love to use this card in a deck
third, is this going to make control more viable, no, not alone
-Why is it good, it is a threat that the opponent must deal with or get run over by card advantage/ continuous versitility, if an opponent is not ready for it this jace will bring you one step closer to victory. if the oppenent is ready, you didnt lose much if anything.
-Why is it not so good, the oppenent, in this standard, will have an answer. there are very few decks currently with out an answer. Also there is still not enough information on the rest of worldwake to see if there are enough control elements to back up jace. Just like baneslayer, Jace can not win alone.
Lastly. A planeswalker with four versitile abilities and amazing art, this is something i want
It is if the opponent has an overwhelming board position by fourth turn, if they haven't already won.
I think control is going to be coming back. It has finishers, and it has board control, and counters.... hmmmm.
.
How much are you gonna sell it for?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Because the format doesn't have any answers to creatures that benifet in you utilizing planeswalkers.
Nope none at all.
Legacy is a much more open format than you seem to believe. And yes he will absolutely see play in legacy as he serves as a good hoser for some popular strategies and in at least one deck is absolutely going to be backbreaking and incredibly frustrating to deal with. Some of the possibilities for Mindsculptor in legacy:
1. Screwing over countertop players in at least 2 ways. First his 4 cmc makes him difficult too catch with the countertop engine. Second his +2 ability forces the countertop player to keep at least 2 mana open in order to ensure he has the resources to protect the key cards for countering other spells and be able to get them back when theyre needed then add in one more if they want to give themselves smoother draws
2. He breaks Tarmogoyf stalemates wide open by repeatedly bouncing the opposing Tarmogoyf forcing bad blocks
3. He increases the chances for Dark Confidant to hurt the opponent for their free card and if they have sensei's divining top he creates the same scenario as countertop
4. Ultimate Walker deck will make people cry by constantly denying them their answers by fateseal and bounce while elspeth and vengeant beat the opponent down. Or he will give the deck many more opportunities to hit hte cards they need
5. Protects your key cards from duress every turn
6. Bounce Dark Depths tokens after saccing the Hexmage
7. While he isnt likely to see play in dredge decks he provides 4 opportunities to dredge each turn
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
why not just use the hexmage to kill jace
True, you get to se 2 new cards, but I'd prefer getting Jace out of bolt range and keep him there as well Plus, if your hand is already good enough at that moment, you might as well give your Jace some extra loyalty.
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
-
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4e0ab040511b7989424707
I loved Lorwyn and Shadowmoor, but the light CMC aggro and creature-based style that they introduced has wholly supplanted a style of play that I really enjoy. It would be lovely if the blue or blue/black control deck can come back into standard without a reliance on creatures. I can only hope that Wizards intends to make this viable, having spent so much time on creature and, to a lesser extent, burn styled play.
First, his 0: It's not a brainstorm; not instant, not 1 U, but the effect is decent. IMO the +2 and -1 are what make the card good. Once you have board position with jace in play and you begin fatesealing every turn it won't be long (actually it will be long... games with Jace will now always go to time) before your opponent scoops. Especially the -1 though, that's the best one by far.
He's really slow, fast decks like RDW or Boros prolly won't fear him much, but he needs other cards to make him good -- path, day, bolt, quake, ajani, i think he's certainly viable. Again tho, blue can't really protect him very well. Jace needs another color (or two).
Legacy tho? Very doubtful. Legacy has better blue cards like the *real* brainstorm. But, he IS blue and as such is pitchable to force, so if nothing else, he's got that.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
EDH:
Zur, The Enchanter
Modern:
Burn
Legacy:
Cheeri0s
Burn
Depends if it dares entering the Gargoyle Castle.
Or depend if he's alone... I heard Gatekeeper loved hunting single stags.
Especially with repeatable unsummon, malakir gatekeeper is going to be a very strong stag killer. The deck would be weak against swarms of creatures, probably, but if black gets a better sweeper that weakness might go away...
[sigpicmap]
[rect=33,66,133,88]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=206110[/rect]
[rect=251,67,347,90]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=211881[/rect]
[rect=478,68,566,86]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=208005[/rect]
[/sigpicmap]
Spiderboy4DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the AMAZING sig pic and avvy.But in terms of long term card advantage and a finisher, Jace provides it all in a very, very cheap package. For 2UU, in combination with Fetchlands, the 0 card draw is very close to Ancestral Visions: you net only 1 card vs 2, but you still get to keep the best 3 and shuffle the excess land/chaff away. Buehler would have killed for a card like this in CMU Blue: waaaaay better than Whispers with Buyback.
With Jace active in the mid-game and endgame, you will always draw land + spell or all gas if you need it.