How can an effect that cost 3 mana that was played on turn 3 be bad even if you have to wait to get the effect? I mean if you drop this its a free tutor that was already payed for turns ago that needs no other payments.
Turn 3: Tap out to play this, do looter, put 1 on this.
Opponent's turn 3: You're tapped out.
Turn 4: Looter, save mana for opponent's turn, put 1 on this.
Opponent's turn 4: Some draw spell, put final counter on this.
Turn 5: Start tutoring.
Maybe 3 would have been insane, but with needing to do so much drawing for 6 counters, it seems like you would have already drawn through most of your library already, or you should be playing faster tutors.
hmm, if you play esper charm during opponent's turn, it gets a counter too. don't need to wait till turn 9 just to bank in on this. just my grain of salt.
oh, some people already pointed out similar options (duh!). well, if a deck of yours draws like mad, you'll probably win as long as you bank into that serious card advantage. this won't ever be useful in standard, but perhaps extended and other formats will be able to use it well. stuff like ancestral recall, ancestral visions, the enchantment that reads "when you would put a counter on a permanent, put two of those counters instead". and tons of control to back it up, like force of will, pact of negation, cryptic command, and other stuff like that.
Archmage Ascension looks fine, six quest counters is quite easy to obtain if you run Jace or Howling Mine and other draw spells. But of course, there are better turn 3 plays than this card, unless you are in a position such that investing your third turn in a 'useless' card would not have any major drawbacks.
I'm voting against this too. Many decks will spend the time you activate it just killing you. Also, when it goes off you assume you can tutor up some combo that your opponent can't disrupt that will win you the game better than having played a Planeswalker earlier instead and having it built up to an ultimate instead.
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
The fact that you can esper charm or merfolk looter etc. on an opponents turn and have it count is very significant, you can get a turn ahead with esper charm and the like. I love the flavor of this card, if it gets broken we will see it everywhere, the effect is strong, but then after bitter blossom people will just side in enchantment hate. So sorry for the negativity but i don't see it going anywhere. Great card,
A+ flavor, C+ power (b makes it to constructed)
Seems pretty weak. Assuming you go turn 2 Mine, turn 3 this, it's still not going to pop until turn 9. That's a long time for it to sit there doing nothing I'd say.
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This card needs a card to come in this set that increases (or even doubles) quest counters on permanents. Without it, I don't see this card being highly playable.
Nevertheless, fun card, even though it might not see a whole lot of action in Standard.
I'm gonna call this one as the new 'goyf (pricewise, that is). Not to say it'll jump nearly as much, but I think this card's going to find a home and then it's price will definitely go up.
I promise that this wil not see play in standard, vintage, legacy, or extended at a competitive level. I'll give the reasons numbered and if you disagree I'll gladly show you an example in Magic's past.
1) This card's effect is redundant compared to the conditions that must be met to get any benefit out of the card. If you played this turn 3 and met the conditions, you would have drawn 20 cards and that's being conservative. What would you need to tutor after drawing a third of your deck? It seems that what you would have needed to draw would be in your hand.
2) We've drawn 20 cards or so and now we get to tutor! Yay! What's that you say? We're dead because we've wasted mana playing this enchantment and drawing cards without actually playing anything else? Oh well, at least I got my quest counters!
You're wasting turn 3 playing this enchantment. In all the formats I mentioned, turn 3 is a very important turn for control decks. Had this card came down turn 1 for U then this card would be a little better, but still unplayable because...
4) to realistically play this every game on turn 3 you need to play 4 copies. There's a good chance you're goin to draw this card later in the game when it's now useless.
5) To those who think this is playable of we can cheat counters on it somehow, I still doubt it because although tutoring is very powerful, I expect ascension cards with more powerful plays like "I win the game."
6) Lastly, this isn't even that good in EDH. it's not going to be too often that you play this card early enough to matter. The only general hat would think about this card would be Zur, and even he doesn't need this "win more" card.
Sorry kids, this is a cool design and might be fun in non-competitive magic but this card isn't going to earn anyone any pro points any time soon.
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Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
At the beginning of each end step...so you can draw 2 cards during your opponent's turn and add quest counters to it.
Still, 6 quest counters and drawing 18+ cards in order to tutor. If you drew 18 cards, i dont think you would really need to tutor anything at that point.
Esper Charm
Frontline Sage
Grixis Battlemage
Hindering Light
Merfolk Looter
Obelisk of Alara
Relic of Progenitus
Scepter of Insight
And...all the cycling cards, as ways to draw on your opponents turn in standard.
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Turn 3: Tap out to play this, do looter, put 1 on this.
Opponent's turn 3: You're tapped out.
Turn 4: Looter, save mana for opponent's turn, put 1 on this.
Opponent's turn 4: Some draw spell, put final counter on this.
Turn 5: Start tutoring.
Maybe 3 would have been insane, but with needing to do so much drawing for 6 counters, it seems like you would have already drawn through most of your library already, or you should be playing faster tutors.
Still seems like a fun card though.
oh, some people already pointed out similar options (duh!). well, if a deck of yours draws like mad, you'll probably win as long as you bank into that serious card advantage. this won't ever be useful in standard, but perhaps extended and other formats will be able to use it well. stuff like ancestral recall, ancestral visions, the enchantment that reads "when you would put a counter on a permanent, put two of those counters instead". and tons of control to back it up, like force of will, pact of negation, cryptic command, and other stuff like that.
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>_>
Terrible jokes aside, this is a pretty good EDH card especially in combination with something like Mind's Eye.
You'll need a very specialized deck to make this card work. Yeah maybe Fog or Time Sieve will consider this.
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A+ flavor, C+ power (b makes it to constructed)
On the other hand, play enough ponders and Jaces, this card'll rock ^^
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Exactly why it won't see play.
Pride is a powerful tool; it makes us fight harder when we are weak as does it cut us down while we are at our prime.
If you are a player in the Lancaster, PA area or go to school at Millersville University there is a Magic Club that holds all kinds of events! Checkout our Facebook Page or message me, Austin Rittle! http://www.facebook.com/groups/170267396386812/
Nevertheless, fun card, even though it might not see a whole lot of action in Standard.
UWBG Gifts in Modern
UWBG Control in Standard
UBG Control in Legacy
Yeah, maybe...
There is a really good chance that we'll see some good cards that play well with this in Zendikar. Just a feeling I have.
Howling Mine, Jace, Etc...
Yours?
Sign In Blood, Esper Charm, Etc...
1) This card's effect is redundant compared to the conditions that must be met to get any benefit out of the card. If you played this turn 3 and met the conditions, you would have drawn 20 cards and that's being conservative. What would you need to tutor after drawing a third of your deck? It seems that what you would have needed to draw would be in your hand.
2) We've drawn 20 cards or so and now we get to tutor! Yay! What's that you say? We're dead because we've wasted mana playing this enchantment and drawing cards without actually playing anything else? Oh well, at least I got my quest counters!
You're wasting turn 3 playing this enchantment. In all the formats I mentioned, turn 3 is a very important turn for control decks. Had this card came down turn 1 for U then this card would be a little better, but still unplayable because...
4) to realistically play this every game on turn 3 you need to play 4 copies. There's a good chance you're goin to draw this card later in the game when it's now useless.
5) To those who think this is playable of we can cheat counters on it somehow, I still doubt it because although tutoring is very powerful, I expect ascension cards with more powerful plays like "I win the game."
6) Lastly, this isn't even that good in EDH. it's not going to be too often that you play this card early enough to matter. The only general hat would think about this card would be Zur, and even he doesn't need this "win more" card.
Sorry kids, this is a cool design and might be fun in non-competitive magic but this card isn't going to earn anyone any pro points any time soon.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Still, 6 quest counters and drawing 18+ cards in order to tutor. If you drew 18 cards, i dont think you would really need to tutor anything at that point.
Oops, shows how little I play black.
Haha
But it is good to know it can be done faster than six of your turns.
Too bad we're losing savor the moment.