Could one have on turn 8, six lands in play with a golden lotus already on the playing field and play a 2nd lotus and sac both lotuses before the legends rule happens and get 18 mana?
Well well well, my apoc hydra and banefire just got a new toy!!!
just to answer your question, no you can't sac both lotuses before the legend rule applies. When you play the second lotus SBE will be checked before you gain priority to play the tap and sac ability, and in that SBE check, the legend rule will apply, and both of the lotuses will go to your graveyard. The only way to do what you are describing would require sacrificing the first lotus, playing the second... then well you would need something like Early Harvest only without the restriction of untapping just basic lands, or turn golden lotus into a basic land, both possibilities not really existing as far as i can tell.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that even if you could play the second lotus and tap and sac one of em before the legend rule applies, you still couldn't sac both as no matter what you do, that second lotus is coming in to play tapped, and so cannot be sacrificed for its ability.
I see some hijinx with the lotus and crucible of worlds!! Why stop at nine? with proper land accel you can get 18 and make one hellacious apoc hydra or one bad mother of a banefire or martial coup!!! Of course one would have to untap the lotus played by the COW, but not a problem with garruk or fatestitcher
Golden Lotus is a land, because...look at the art. The name isn't as important at showing it is a land as the art is.
You think you might be able to provide that art instead of just expecting everybody to have already seen it? Cause it's not on the spoiler and I'm frankly not going through the entire forum to find it.
Cascade (as well as more 0-cost Artifact tutors and tricks than there are for nonbasic lands, as well as forcing it to occupy your land drop for the turn).
That's a pretty damn good reason, actually. Thanks for the wakeup call.
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
The shroud makes it very interesting, play some sort of rampant growth effect 2nd turn and this on 3rd turn and you have 9 mana to play the obscene spell or combo of your choice on the 4th turn. Not sure what value it'll have but it should see some play.
i really dont have the time to go thru this whole set of posts so...has any one confirmened the actually efect of the card? this looks a lot like one of those trick type things that people post just to get peope worked up. i looked at the first couple pages and only found the art confermed.
WotC was saying that they were trying to bring back maic.....this would probly be the card to kill it......
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wow what an incredibly lame card. M10 -- iconic? simple? this is neither of those. this card is a gimmick and poorly designed. it's so random... 9 mana? was 10 too broken? ugh, so far M10 hasn't been exciting me at all other than silence.
-lion's eye diamond was terrible when it first came out because the rules were different in that you couldn't play a spell then sac it like you can now.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
wow what an incredibly lame card. M10 -- iconic? simple? this is neither of those. this card is a gimmick and poorly designed. it's so random... 9 mana? was 10 too broken? ugh, so far M10 hasn't been exciting me at all other than silence.
-lion's eye diamond was terrible when it first came out because the rules were different in that you couldn't play a spell then sac it like you can now.
When I first thought about this card, I thought it wasn't too good.
Now I realize how sought after this card will be. Imagine playing a Cruel Ultimatum on turn 3 with Negate backup. That will be game, unlike the 8 point Banefire someone else mentioned. There can be just so many uses for this card, especially with all the high cost cards there will be in Standard.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
When I first thought about this card, I thought it wasn't too good.
Now I realize how sought after this card will be. Imagine playing a Cruel Ultimatum on turn 3 4 (it's CPT) with Negate backup. That will be game, unlike the 8 point Banefire someone else mentioned. There can be just so many uses for this card, especially with all the high cost cards there will be in Standard.
Cruel Ultimatum won't do anything if you have no creatures in play on the battlefield, plus only the land you casted this turn as well.
A better use would be casting Progenitus from a Noble Heirarch and Rampant Growth on turn 4.
But a Banefire for 8-9 won't kill, and you'll be down 4 lands. Whereas, had you kept normal lands, a Banefire for 5-6 may prove to be a finisher or near-finisher, while losing 0 lands.
OKay, couple things I gotta question here...
How would an 8 point Banefire not kill but a 5 point one would...
... and moreover, if it's going to kill, what does it matter if you've kept the lands or not? 10 lands or 0 lands, you've won the game.
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
When I first thought about this card, I thought it wasn't too good.
Now I realize how sought after this card will be. Imagine playing a Cruel Ultimatum on turn 3 with Negate backup. That will be game, unlike the 8 point Banefire someone else mentioned. There can be just so many uses for this card, especially with all the high cost cards there will be in Standard.
Quite frankly I don't know if that comes close to guaranteeing a win since you're still behind by around 4 land drops. Aggro will still probably kill you even with the 5 life you gain.
Turn one mana producer
Turn two Rampant Growth
Turn three Golden Lotus
Turn four sac for nine mana, plus land drop and Birds/Elf/Noble. Eleven total. Silence them, then cast Nicol Bolas.
Unless they've no blue sources out, in which case you save your mana and Silence them in their upkeep. Nicol Bolas on turn sixteen is a handleable threat. Nicol Bolas on turn 4, not so much. Or instead of Silence, you keep mana for Negate or Path.
I'm envisioning some sort of combo/control, where you use the Lotus to bring out a giant spell early, one good enough to seal you the win, combined with traditional control backup. Tournament viable? Who knows. But definitely effective.
When I first saw it, was thinking, "Oh another black lotus variant, 3 mana ok" - 9 mana! Wow.
And battlefield changes, not a big fan of it. Seems odd for a lotus to "enter the battlefield". Like planeswalkers, I guess I can deal with it.
I could see this getting some use in some combo deck, probably extended somewhere, since storm most likely will never see a reprinting. It's going to require some rethinking on traditional decks though, but could very well guarantee you go off on turn 4, as you can do a lot with 9-10 mana, of any combination, with no mana burn.
You mean WotC doesn't use "If ____ would go to ____, do ____ instead"... so I clearly imagined Progenitus' entire existence. Yep, replacement effects totally do not exist in any current Wizards products... so I wouldn't count on it until we see a scan of the actual card.
Wow, are you actually having this much trouble understanding my point?
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They're not phasing out ALL replacement effects. They just don't tend to use "If this would come into play, instead do x. If you do, this comes into play. If you don't..."
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If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
The only way I can see this being played early game is with something like Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, or some efficient land destruction.
(this is with R/B/U, so no mana ramp)
T1: Land, maybe a one-drop
T2: Land, one/twodrop
T3: Land, another cheap creature
T4: Golden Lotus (pray your small creatures keep your opponent at bay)
T5: Land, Nicol bolas with Negate/countersquall backup
Then you use his +1 ability to keep their land base at 4 to 5 for 2 turns until you can get the final off.
Other than that, I see it as a mid-late game drop to get a big finisher out.
just to answer your question, no you can't sac both lotuses before the legend rule applies. When you play the second lotus SBE will be checked before you gain priority to play the tap and sac ability, and in that SBE check, the legend rule will apply, and both of the lotuses will go to your graveyard. The only way to do what you are describing would require sacrificing the first lotus, playing the second... then well you would need something like Early Harvest only without the restriction of untapping just basic lands, or turn golden lotus into a basic land, both possibilities not really existing as far as i can tell.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that even if you could play the second lotus and tap and sac one of em before the legend rule applies, you still couldn't sac both as no matter what you do, that second lotus is coming in to play tapped, and so cannot be sacrificed for its ability.
You think you might be able to provide that art instead of just expecting everybody to have already seen it? Cause it's not on the spoiler and I'm frankly not going through the entire forum to find it.
That's a pretty damn good reason, actually. Thanks for the wakeup call.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
That was my bad i forgot it had shroud, but still with the COW you can still get an arse load out of banefires and coups with just one lotus
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WotC was saying that they were trying to bring back maic.....this would probly be the card to kill it......
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-lion's eye diamond was terrible when it first came out because the rules were different in that you couldn't play a spell then sac it like you can now.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
You STILL cannot do that. Read its Oracle text.
Now I realize how sought after this card will be. Imagine playing a Cruel Ultimatum on turn 3 with Negate backup. That will be game, unlike the 8 point Banefire someone else mentioned. There can be just so many uses for this card, especially with all the high cost cards there will be in Standard.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)i think you're both wrong....cos, it looks like you can.
Cruel Ultimatum won't do anything if you have no creatures
in playon the battlefield, plus only the land you casted this turn as well.A better use would be casting Progenitus from a Noble Heirarch and Rampant Growth on turn 4.
OKay, couple things I gotta question here...
How would an 8 point Banefire not kill but a 5 point one would...
... and moreover, if it's going to kill, what does it matter if you've kept the lands or not? 10 lands or 0 lands, you've won the game.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Quite frankly I don't know if that comes close to guaranteeing a win since you're still behind by around 4 land drops. Aggro will still probably kill you even with the 5 life you gain.
Turn two Rampant Growth
Turn three Golden Lotus
Turn four sac for nine mana, plus land drop and Birds/Elf/Noble. Eleven total. Silence them, then cast Nicol Bolas.
Unless they've no blue sources out, in which case you save your mana and Silence them in their upkeep. Nicol Bolas on turn sixteen is a handleable threat. Nicol Bolas on turn 4, not so much. Or instead of Silence, you keep mana for Negate or Path.
I'm envisioning some sort of combo/control, where you use the Lotus to bring out a giant spell early, one good enough to seal you the win, combined with traditional control backup. Tournament viable? Who knows. But definitely effective.
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The merit of the card from a design perspective and all that, plenty of room for opinions. Art, discuss away.
But as far as this being constructed or even limited playable? I'd rank this card's use on the following scale:
(utterly useless)
Mishra's War Machine
Carrier Pigeons
Time Sieve
Golden Lotus
(somewhat useless)
Gilded Lotus
Lotus Bloom
(useful)
And battlefield changes, not a big fan of it. Seems odd for a lotus to "enter the battlefield". Like planeswalkers, I guess I can deal with it.
I could see this getting some use in some combo deck, probably extended somewhere, since storm most likely will never see a reprinting. It's going to require some rethinking on traditional decks though, but could very well guarantee you go off on turn 4, as you can do a lot with 9-10 mana, of any combination, with no mana burn.
Wow, are you actually having this much trouble understanding my point?
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
The land is uncounterable. The spells you play with the lotus are not.
Unless they get some help
(this is with R/B/U, so no mana ramp)
T1: Land, maybe a one-drop
T2: Land, one/twodrop
T3: Land, another cheap creature
T4: Golden Lotus (pray your small creatures keep your opponent at bay)
T5: Land, Nicol bolas with Negate/countersquall backup
Then you use his +1 ability to keep their land base at 4 to 5 for 2 turns until you can get the final off.
Other than that, I see it as a mid-late game drop to get a big finisher out.