Why is it "not right" for a casual player to run a playset of the best tutor ever printed? Most casual players could care less about what's banned and what's not unless their playgroup decides so. In fact most casual players wouldn't even know where to look for a banned/restricted list.
There's a reason it's restricted: because it's too powerful to have 4 of in a deck. That's why it's not right in my mind, casual is supposed to be lower power levels, not overpowered decks ignoring typical restrictions.
I know it's powerful...but I don't like it. It's considerably better than Diabolic Tutor, which although not an amazing card is still solid. It's going to take up a lot of the 'budget' of the deck/set, which would generally make them less interesting - and then it's a stupid card if there's nothing good to tutor for.
Yay for collectors, I suppose, but I don't think it's a good design/development decision. Still, it'll shift product.
Well, you could tutor for a finisher. I don't think the budget consideration matters because the high $ things that make good tutor targets are combo cards anyway (as well as mostly being on the reserved list). It's not like Demonic is going to be a broken combo deck or anything. I'm pretty sure in this deck, it'll be used like it was probably intended, as a way to fetch your timmy rares. We already know the deck has Lord of the Pit and there's likely at least one other huge monster in it, possibly even the speculated Reiver Demon that you can tutor up and rape Akroma. Demonic Tutor has a perfectly fair cost outside of it's combo uses. Afterall, what's the fun in tutoring your cool toy if you can't cast it now without having 11+ mana available? Remember, this is supposed to be a somewhat casual deck, not something to clean house at a tournament with.
There's a reason it's restricted: because it's too powerful to have 4 of in a deck. That's why it's not right in my mind, casual is supposed to be lower power levels, not overpowered decks ignoring typical restrictions.
Heh... How powerfull casual decks are differs from playgroup to playgroup, but they're certainly not always lower in power level than constructed. Many casual deck will blow the current standard decks out of the water. Thing is, for 1-on-1 you need to beat only one opponent, in multiplayer you need to beat several, which changes your window of opportunity (you get more turns in mp), which cards are good, etcetera. Then again, my playgroup usually plays by the legacy rules, so Demonic Tutor is still a no go there.
I have conflicting feelings on the inclusion of Demonic Tutor.
I love that it is in the set, as it has long been a favorite card. Its inclusion alone is going to make me go grab some of these (honsetly, Akroma wasn't going to be enough).
However, their willingness to include something like this in DvD makes me even more sad that they didn't include Force of Will in JvC. (By the way, how many more of these will be released with electronics-related abbreviations?) Now before anyone goes "correcting" me, I am well aware of the vast difference in current market value of those two cards. What I'm talking about is looking at it from the perspective of age, rarity and power level. Perhaps if there is a large enough difference in sales between this and JvC they'll take another look at what they include in future ones.
As far as the quality of tutors goes, I have long since wanted something between Demonic and Diabolic in an unconditional (or at least with lighter restrictions than what we've seen) tutor - you know, that would be cheaper to buy than Grim Tutor.
There's a reason it's restricted: because it's too powerful to have 4 of in a deck. That's why it's not right in my mind, casual is supposed to be lower power levels, not overpowered decks ignoring typical restrictions.
I couldn't disagree more. Casual playing is about a group of friends who make up their own mind on what they can handle. If you and your friends want to play with playsets of Moxen, it's not going to effect anyone else.
Most casual playgroups I know haven't bought a card since the 90s, and certainly don't give a darn what WOTC decides tournament players can or cannot handle. I pay attention to that stuff because I play in the occasional tourney, but I'm not going to make everyone else in my kitchen table crew to tear apart their decks because they play Black Vice or Sol Ring.
Now that would be an excellent uncommon reprint. You have to ask though what artifacts or enchantments would you put into an Angel deck at uncommon & common that would merit the inclusion.
I'm getting this for the Akroma, will be very happy with the DT and everything else is gravy. Dying to know the full list.
Is that confirmed though? I can definately see why they would want to bump it to rare.
No, they said that the reprints in the Duel decks would appear in the same rarity slot as they were originally printed but it really doesn't matter. The print quantity is fixed because the decklists are fixed. Wizards determine the rarity of the commons & uncommons by how many they choose to put into a deck.
Essentially this DT is as rare as the Akroma or Lord of the Pit if it only appears once in the Duel deck because to have one copy, you need to buy one deck, same as the rare/mythic slots. Only by choosing to print more than one copy in the deck will it truely be "uncommon" in comparison with the printed rare & mythic.
The only question then is colour of the expansion symbol
Well it would be interesting to see if they didn't change some stuff around. Tutor is still a $5-7 uncommon and they know it. Also, Serra Angel is now an uncommon in 11th... there isn't a whole heck of a lot of good angels that aren't rare... if they really wanted to flesh out the quality of the deck, she'd be in there in her new rarity.
Well it would be interesting to see if they didn't change some stuff around. Tutor is still a $5-7 uncommon and they know it. Also, Serra Angel is now an uncommon in 11th... there isn't a whole heck of a lot of good angels that aren't rare... if they really wanted to flesh out the quality of the deck, she'd be in there in her new rarity.
She very well might be, wouldn't hurt any.
I expect to see things like
Angelic Blessing/Page/Renewal/Benediction/Favour
Angel of Light/Voice of X/Serra Advocate (though anything with pro-black would be a bit stupid.)
Lots of Serra's stuff, Blessing/Boon/Embrace.
The question is how they are going to balance the deck so that you can actually get to the 8 mana play, sorry, cast Akroma stage. A lot of the cheaper Angel stuff is either to be put onto a creature or is very weak.
Still, white will need things to really make the deck worth playing. That's one reason I'm in the Swords camp... I also figured yesterday if Tutor was in as an uncommon, Swords would be a natch with new heavenly art. Otherwise there isn't a lot of good cards that depict angels in the uncommon/common range. I'd say they nerfed black on purpose in the rare department to make up for the fact they'll have things like Edicts, Terror, and even Dark Rit. I could see white having O-Ring, Faith's Fetters, Holy Day, and control aspects like that.
as there is definatly liliana on the artwork could that mean that she´s included also?!?
As someone pointed out in this thread unless the cover guy lord of the pit is not mythic, its doubtful that Liliana is in it, as she is a mythic in the new make of planeswalkers.
This thread is full of idiots... Lightning Bolt is NOT being reprinted.
Many times has a writer in Wizards said so, because of the plain and simple fact that it's too powerful for what it costs. x/3 creatures shouldn't be able to die at instant speed for one mana without a signifigant drawback. (like PTE giving you a land)
I absolutely guarantee that LB will not be printed in M10, and you can quote me on that.
I've never bought any of these duel decks so I was wondering how many foils come in each one? If this Demonic Tutor is foily, I will die! I was on the fence about buying it before but this definately pushed me to pre-order 4.
I've never bought any of these duel decks so I was wondering how many foils come in each one? If this Demonic Tutor is foily, I will die! I was on the fence about buying it before but this definately pushed me to pre-order 4.
It will NOT be foily. It will be the chase uncommon of the set, just like Fact or Fiction was for JvC.
Unfortunately, the Lord of the Pit doesn't come close to Akroma's playability or awesomeness (Jace and Chandra were fairly equal), and it leads to the stupid possibility of Lord being a Mythic in M10, but we'll ignore that since we just got a friggin awesome reprint.
However, I'm really surprised they did this in light of the recent judge joil...? At least the judge foil's art was better, so they still have SOMETHING going for it.
As for me, I agree with yawg- this makes altering Demonic Tutors AWESOME.
There's a reason it's restricted: because it's too powerful to have 4 of in a deck. That's why it's not right in my mind, casual is supposed to be lower power levels, not overpowered decks ignoring typical restrictions.
Well, you could tutor for a finisher. I don't think the budget consideration matters because the high $ things that make good tutor targets are combo cards anyway (as well as mostly being on the reserved list). It's not like Demonic is going to be a broken combo deck or anything. I'm pretty sure in this deck, it'll be used like it was probably intended, as a way to fetch your timmy rares. We already know the deck has Lord of the Pit and there's likely at least one other huge monster in it, possibly even the speculated Reiver Demon that you can tutor up and rape Akroma. Demonic Tutor has a perfectly fair cost outside of it's combo uses. Afterall, what's the fun in tutoring your cool toy if you can't cast it now without having 11+ mana available? Remember, this is supposed to be a somewhat casual deck, not something to clean house at a tournament with.
Thanks to PurpleD from Left Play Designs for the banner:D
I love that it is in the set, as it has long been a favorite card. Its inclusion alone is going to make me go grab some of these (honsetly, Akroma wasn't going to be enough).
However, their willingness to include something like this in DvD makes me even more sad that they didn't include Force of Will in JvC. (By the way, how many more of these will be released with electronics-related abbreviations?) Now before anyone goes "correcting" me, I am well aware of the vast difference in current market value of those two cards. What I'm talking about is looking at it from the perspective of age, rarity and power level. Perhaps if there is a large enough difference in sales between this and JvC they'll take another look at what they include in future ones.
As far as the quality of tutors goes, I have long since wanted something between Demonic and Diabolic in an unconditional (or at least with lighter restrictions than what we've seen) tutor - you know, that would be cheaper to buy than Grim Tutor.
Mediocre? Nope.
Outright craptacular, especially when compared to the original? Definitely.
I like people with nostalgia goggles who state their opinions as a fact.
Any chance we will see Enlightened Tutor?
I couldn't disagree more. Casual playing is about a group of friends who make up their own mind on what they can handle. If you and your friends want to play with playsets of Moxen, it's not going to effect anyone else.
Most casual playgroups I know haven't bought a card since the 90s, and certainly don't give a darn what WOTC decides tournament players can or cannot handle. I pay attention to that stuff because I play in the occasional tourney, but I'm not going to make everyone else in my kitchen table crew to tear apart their decks because they play Black Vice or Sol Ring.
Now that would be an excellent uncommon reprint. You have to ask though what artifacts or enchantments would you put into an Angel deck at uncommon & common that would merit the inclusion.
I'm getting this for the Akroma, will be very happy with the DT and everything else is gravy. Dying to know the full list.
Commander BLOG: The Crazy 99
Gonti ; Sissay
I think that is more to do with the rare count. DT is an Uncommon for the purposes of the deck btw.
Commander BLOG: The Crazy 99
Gonti ; Sissay
Is that confirmed though? I can definately see why they would want to bump it to rare.
No, they said that the reprints in the Duel decks would appear in the same rarity slot as they were originally printed but it really doesn't matter. The print quantity is fixed because the decklists are fixed. Wizards determine the rarity of the commons & uncommons by how many they choose to put into a deck.
Essentially this DT is as rare as the Akroma or Lord of the Pit if it only appears once in the Duel deck because to have one copy, you need to buy one deck, same as the rare/mythic slots. Only by choosing to print more than one copy in the deck will it truely be "uncommon" in comparison with the printed rare & mythic.
The only question then is colour of the expansion symbol
Commander BLOG: The Crazy 99
Gonti ; Sissay
She very well might be, wouldn't hurt any.
I expect to see things like
Angelic Blessing/Page/Renewal/Benediction/Favour
Angel of Light/Voice of X/Serra Advocate (though anything with pro-black would be a bit stupid.)
Lots of Serra's stuff, Blessing/Boon/Embrace.
The question is how they are going to balance the deck so that you can actually get to the 8 mana play, sorry, cast Akroma stage. A lot of the cheaper Angel stuff is either to be put onto a creature or is very weak.
Commander BLOG: The Crazy 99
Gonti ; Sissay
As someone pointed out in this thread unless the cover guy lord of the pit is not mythic, its doubtful that Liliana is in it, as she is a mythic in the new make of planeswalkers.
“Homo homini lupus est.”
I collect pre-release Stone-Tongue Basilisk
It will NOT be foily. It will be the chase uncommon of the set, just like Fact or Fiction was for JvC.
Unfortunately, the Lord of the Pit doesn't come close to Akroma's playability or awesomeness (Jace and Chandra were fairly equal), and it leads to the stupid possibility of Lord being a Mythic in M10, but we'll ignore that since we just got a friggin awesome reprint.
However, I'm really surprised they did this in light of the recent judge joil...? At least the judge foil's art was better, so they still have SOMETHING going for it.
As for me, I agree with yawg- this makes altering Demonic Tutors AWESOME.
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Actually, I would say that makes it more likely; seems to me Wizards is just saying 'screw the market values, lets sell some boxes!'
Seeing how I am one of the have-nots in this environment, I can't really complain.