Elspeth: All right, you big mean scalawag, I'm-
(Bolas smiles and flicks his finger)
Elspeth: AAAIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Other 3 walkers: ...I think I left the oven on.
As for playability, while its effect isn't as immediate as his Ultimatum, it's substantially more damaging in the long run. If there was ever a card that read "O-Ring or DIE", this is it. He might be too slow for Standard (I'm hoping he's not), but casual/EDH players will undoubtedly bow to him.
It seems to me that the posters here are in two camps. The first camp doesn't like Nicol Bolas or thinks that Cruel Ultimatum is superior. The second thinks that Bolas rocks and is better the Cruel.
I'm more of a long term guy. Sure, Cruel Ultimatum is a big swing immediately, but it's just a one and done card. You cast it, you get an advantage, you continue playing.
Nicol, on the other hand, is more of a long term advantage. You drop him, kill something. Kill something else next turn. Blast your opponent's position on the turn after that. Then continue killing and/or taking control of things on the following turns. Persistent advantage. That, in my view, is far more powerful than a single casting of Cruel Ultimatum. Add to that the fact that once it hits the board, Nicol Bolas' abilities operate independent of your mana, and it just seems head and shoulders better.
And, flavor-wise, this guy is just amazing. It all fits in very well with Nicol Bolas the legend. Not to mention that he swats away other Planeswalkers at will. Can't wait for February.
Y'know... I thought that the reason behind why we didn't know what Bolas would be like in it's entirety was to give Wizards a chance to show him to us? I think it's a shame it already got leaked. I'm a fan of the spoilers, no less, but I'm the kind of person that doesn't mind if Wizards shows of their gem themselves...
I like his abilities, they're pretty balanced. But... Isn't a Plainswalker some form of creature?
From a purely competetive standpoint Bolas is very useful. He has a great starting loyalty & excellent abilities. The only downside is the cost, but with so much going on with control decks lately this guy is a shoe in. Blast away the non-filter lands of your opponents, sower away their 'Lark, rip their lifetotals, card advantage and board position to shreds. This is my kinda dragon
I'm sort of sad it was spoiled this way, I was actually admiring the fact that zesty & co. had shown enough restraint to leave the biggest part of it to wizards to show(it's probably going to be the first card shown anyway(well this or conflux)). Plus what happened to the rumored ultimate 'abilities'(as in multiple)?
If you can actually get Nicol Bolas out it's going to be pretty good, his cheap abilities give him the ability to deal with any permanent(barring shroud/protection) and the ultimate which is usable in 3 turns(and doesn't kill him) should pretty much write any opponent out of the game(no hand, 1/3 less life(assuming 20 life) and barely any lands/creatures). All that said he still won't see much serious play thanks to costing 8 mana which makes him way too vulnerable to discard and counters for constructed, meaning that his only chance is like Cruel Ultimatum as a 2 or so of in QnT and the like.
If you realistically think, "ok, when it hits the field it will be 3x the Lacerator in p/t majority of the game." you can assume it's better than it. what about cost though? "one B?!?!? no f!@#ing wey." This is where you should replace those lacerators with a death's shadow.
I'm sort of sad it was spoiled this way, I was actually admiring the fact that zesty & co. had shown enough restraint to leave the biggest part of it to wizards to show(it's probably going to be the first card shown anyway(well this or conflux)). Plus what happened to the rumored ultimate 'abilities'(as in multiple)?
Zesty said the final ability was actually 3 things.
As listed here, it's 3 things.
1) Loss of life to opponent.
2) 7 card discard.
3) 7 permanents destroyed.
Y'know, reading people's response to this card in here kinda kills my faith in the magic player community. There's several people that are valiantly arguing this card's greatness, and then you get the others: "It isn't viable in constructed, so why does it matter?" of course, until the next PTQ rolls around and someone breaks it in some dark and terrible fashion, then it's "Nicol Bolasomfgftw!!!!1"
Control decks <3 Nicol Bolas ((Five Color Control, in particular)): "Lock you out of the game? Why yes, I think I will. Hose your Planeswalker? Oh yes."
Casual Decks <3 Nicol Bolas: "Now I have a Dragon Walker to rock with my Draco, Hellkite Overlord and Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon."
EDH <3 Nicol Bolas: "I don't have a witty quote, so I'm going to type in quotes"
If you do not <3 Nicol Bolas... Then you are lost, and I weep for you.
Or, atleast, you don't play a deck type that'll benefit from Bolas.
Y'know, reading people's response to this card in here kinda kills my faith in the magic player community. There's several people that are valiantly arguing this card's greatness, and then you get the others: "It isn't viable in constructed, so why does it matter?" of course, until the next PTQ rolls around and someone breaks it in some dark and terrible fashion, then it's "Nicol Bolasomfgftw!!!!1"
Control decks <3 Nicol Bolas ((Five Color Control, in particular)): "Lock you out of the game? Why yes, I think I will. Hose your Planeswalker? Oh yes."
Casual Decks <3 Nicol Bolas: "Now I have a Dragon Walker to rock with my Draco, Hellkite Overlord and Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon."
EDH <3 Nicol Bolas: "I don't have a witty quote, so I'm going to type in quotes"
If you do not <3 Nicol Bolas... Then you are lost, and I weep for you.
Or, atleast, you don't play a deck type that'll benefit from Bolas.
And reading your response kills my faith that casual players won't get personally involved with big Timmy cards to the extent that they must valiantly try to parry any comments by people who don't think its great.
I never said anything about casual formats. If he's good in some random format I've never heard of, then good for players of that random format
If you realistically think, "ok, when it hits the field it will be 3x the Lacerator in p/t majority of the game." you can assume it's better than it. what about cost though? "one B?!?!? no f!@#ing wey." This is where you should replace those lacerators with a death's shadow.
I am actually going to try playing him in a mana ramp deck just so I can get him out on turn 5. If that doesn't work I'll be making a new EDH deck that has his colors.
If you realistically think, "ok, when it hits the field it will be 3x the Lacerator in p/t majority of the game." you can assume it's better than it. what about cost though? "one B?!?!? no f!@#ing wey." This is where you should replace those lacerators with a death's shadow.
And reading your response kills my faith that casual players won't get personally involved with big Timmy cards to the extent that they must valiantly try to parry any comments by people who don't think its great.
I never said anything about casual formats. If he's good in some random format I've never heard of, then good for players of that random format
Not to argue semantics here, but your original line states that it's not valid in "any contructed format that matters". I'd like to remind you that casual contructed has a far larger following than the tournament scene. That means casual constructed matters far more than tournament constructed insofar as card sales and number of people playing go. That's why a card like Sarkhan Vol can command a $25 price tag when he doesn't see play at all in tournaments.
I also wouldn't be so quick to tag Nicol Bolas as completely unplayable, even on the tournament scene. Very few people thought a card like Cruel Ultimatum would end up in top 8 standard constructed lists when Shards was first spoiled, but it was there rather often towards the end of the standard season. It's entirely possible, even likely, that Nicol will see play as a one- or two-of in many 5cc decks.
And reading your response kills my faith that casual players won't get personally involved with big Timmy cards to the extent that they must valiantly try to parry any comments by people who don't think its great.
I never said anything about casual formats. If he's good in some random format I've never heard of, then good for players of that random format
Just like all those casual players running Cruel Ultimatum in winning decks... that so many people with attitudes like yours claimed was garbage when they it's info was first released, while other sane people were making statements like "The mana looks rough, but if it resolves it's backbreaking".
Who was right about Cruel? Who will be right about Bolas? Considering it's +1 CC for a slower but more backbreaking effect, with a brutal effect every turn on buildup to ultimate and/or a double threaten - I'm thinking that the "Might just be good..." contingent are more than likely right - and more than likely the "Over-rated..." contingent like yourself are wrong, like often is shown.
Not viable in any constructed format that matters.
I'll let you take a wild guess as to whether WotC makes more money off of casual players or tournament players, and then I'll let you take another stab at which formats "matter."
Seriously, the card is flashy, iconic, and fun for an awful lot of players. It is a unique and powerful win condition. It definitely appeals to Timmy (GIANT PLANESWALKER BIG CRAZY ULTIMATE ABILITY) and Johnny(like the guy who posted Dream Halls out Conflux to fetch this guy, Doubling Season, and two cards to discard, then drop them both and pop your opponent to pieces... and if that's not Johnny, I don't know what is.) He definitely appeals to Vorthos. Whether it will appeal to Spikes remains to be determined, but I'd say that WotC hit a home run with this, obnoxious bashers such as yourself aside. I haven't played a non-sanctioned game of Magic in years, and I still recognize how excellently designed this card is.
Just like all those casual players running Cruel Ultimatum in winning decks... that so many people with attitudes like yours claimed was garbage when they it's info was first released, while other sane people were making statements like "The mana looks rough, but if it resolves it's backbreaking".
Who was right about Cruel? Who will be right about Bolas? Considering it's +1 CC for a slower but more backbreaking effect, with a brutal effect every turn on buildup to ultimate and/or a double threaten - I'm thinking that the "Might just be good..." contingent are more than likely right - and more than likely the "Over-rated..." contingent like yourself are wrong, like often is shown.
I'm not sure why you're making the assumption that I thought the same thing about a considerably better card.
When I saw Cruel Ultimatum, I probably overestimated how good it was, imagining auto 2-3x in every 5cc deck.
Cruel Ultimatum is much better for two reasons (well, better due to one, much better due to the second):
A) Cost 1cc less, harder colors though
B) Doesn't sit vulnerable on the field for 2+ turns before you can reap the benefits.
Yes, Bolas gets the "BRUTAL EFFECT" of destroying a permanent each turn, which frankly is hardly brutal for a card that costs 8cc. You also have the choice of jacking a creature if you don't think he's going to live through it, but once again an 8cc Control Magic is beyond subpar.
The chance of him living to ultimate is slim, and really only likely to happen if you already have control of the board, aka win more.
Anyways, I'll bookmark this thread so I can remember to bump it in a few months and have a good chuckle.
If you realistically think, "ok, when it hits the field it will be 3x the Lacerator in p/t majority of the game." you can assume it's better than it. what about cost though? "one B?!?!? no f!@#ing wey." This is where you should replace those lacerators with a death's shadow.
I'll let you take a wild guess as to whether WotC makes more money off of casual players or tournament players, and then I'll let you take another stab at which formats "matter."
Not to argue semantics here, but your original line states that it's not valid in "any contructed format that matters". I'd like to remind you that casual contructed has a far larger following than the tournament scene. That means casual constructed matters far more than tournament constructed insofar as card sales and number of people playing go. That's why a card like Sarkhan Vol can command a $25 price tag when he doesn't see play at all in tournaments.
If you realistically think, "ok, when it hits the field it will be 3x the Lacerator in p/t majority of the game." you can assume it's better than it. what about cost though? "one B?!?!? no f!@#ing wey." This is where you should replace those lacerators with a death's shadow.
i think bolas' first 2 abilities are what make him pretty good. he kills ajani and elspeth, and takes control of creatures. his ultimate is pretty good, but odds are all it really will do is limit your opponant to all his non land permanants that are in play. hell be in topdeck mode and likely have sacced all his lands, and the 7 damage is just gravy. i was hoping for something a bit more powerful, but thinking about it, its a 14 for 1 plus 7 damage, and the 7 is clearly reminiscent of his power. id run it as a 2 of in a control deck
I see people talking a lot about how his first ability and ultimate is good for keeping him while his second when he is tossed. For me the situation goes as is:
Option A: If you are losing and you have the 8 mana to play this guy, with him resolving, you can use his second abillity. With that ability you have your own defender, most likely something large and in charge, while he focuses on the walker who needs a beefy 3 to get through to kill him.
Option B: If the game is at a neutral state and you are creature for creature, spell for spell, play this guy to get an advantage. Before they can even play their Oblivion Ring you still either jacked a creature or blew up some non-creature threat.
Option C: If you are winning you can crush them with Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. Either they answer it be destroyed. That mana they had in reserve to keep your creatures from getting to them will be drained.
At least that's how I like to see it. This guy is the perfect late game permanent.
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Elspeth: All right, you big mean scalawag, I'm-
(Bolas smiles and flicks his finger)
Elspeth: AAAIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Other 3 walkers: ...I think I left the oven on.
As for playability, while its effect isn't as immediate as his Ultimatum, it's substantially more damaging in the long run. If there was ever a card that read "O-Ring or DIE", this is it. He might be too slow for Standard (I'm hoping he's not), but casual/EDH players will undoubtedly bow to him.
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
I'm more of a long term guy. Sure, Cruel Ultimatum is a big swing immediately, but it's just a one and done card. You cast it, you get an advantage, you continue playing.
Nicol, on the other hand, is more of a long term advantage. You drop him, kill something. Kill something else next turn. Blast your opponent's position on the turn after that. Then continue killing and/or taking control of things on the following turns. Persistent advantage. That, in my view, is far more powerful than a single casting of Cruel Ultimatum. Add to that the fact that once it hits the board, Nicol Bolas' abilities operate independent of your mana, and it just seems head and shoulders better.
And, flavor-wise, this guy is just amazing. It all fits in very well with Nicol Bolas the legend. Not to mention that he swats away other Planeswalkers at will. Can't wait for February.
I like his abilities, they're pretty balanced. But... Isn't a Plainswalker some form of creature?
[/center]
If you can actually get Nicol Bolas out it's going to be pretty good, his cheap abilities give him the ability to deal with any permanent(barring shroud/protection) and the ultimate which is usable in 3 turns(and doesn't kill him) should pretty much write any opponent out of the game(no hand, 1/3 less life(assuming 20 life) and barely any lands/creatures). All that said he still won't see much serious play thanks to costing 8 mana which makes him way too vulnerable to discard and counters for constructed, meaning that his only chance is like Cruel Ultimatum as a 2 or so of in QnT and the like.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
He truly sucks for constructed and probly limited. Just a collectible...sad pandas.
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
Zesty said the final ability was actually 3 things.
As listed here, it's 3 things.
1) Loss of life to opponent.
2) 7 card discard.
3) 7 permanents destroyed.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
Control decks <3 Nicol Bolas ((Five Color Control, in particular)): "Lock you out of the game? Why yes, I think I will. Hose your Planeswalker? Oh yes."
Casual Decks <3 Nicol Bolas: "Now I have a Dragon Walker to rock with my Draco, Hellkite Overlord and Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon."
EDH <3 Nicol Bolas: "I don't have a witty quote, so I'm going to type in quotes"
If you do not <3 Nicol Bolas... Then you are lost, and I weep for you.
Or, atleast, you don't play a deck type that'll benefit from Bolas.
And reading your response kills my faith that casual players won't get personally involved with big Timmy cards to the extent that they must valiantly try to parry any comments by people who don't think its great.
I never said anything about casual formats. If he's good in some random format I've never heard of, then good for players of that random format
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
+3: Destroy target noncreature permnant
take out a planeswalker?
wikachaw: thats black people for good
wikachaw: my black friend tuaght me so its not racist
The ability can do that since planeswalkers aren't creatures.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
Planeswalkers are non-creature permanents.
So yes.
I am glad that Wizards designed it in a way that is fairly costed and has the necessary flavor to satisfy most people ... (some excluded).
Not to argue semantics here, but your original line states that it's not valid in "any contructed format that matters". I'd like to remind you that casual contructed has a far larger following than the tournament scene. That means casual constructed matters far more than tournament constructed insofar as card sales and number of people playing go. That's why a card like Sarkhan Vol can command a $25 price tag when he doesn't see play at all in tournaments.
I also wouldn't be so quick to tag Nicol Bolas as completely unplayable, even on the tournament scene. Very few people thought a card like Cruel Ultimatum would end up in top 8 standard constructed lists when Shards was first spoiled, but it was there rather often towards the end of the standard season. It's entirely possible, even likely, that Nicol will see play as a one- or two-of in many 5cc decks.
Just like all those casual players running Cruel Ultimatum in winning decks... that so many people with attitudes like yours claimed was garbage when they it's info was first released, while other sane people were making statements like "The mana looks rough, but if it resolves it's backbreaking".
Who was right about Cruel? Who will be right about Bolas? Considering it's +1 CC for a slower but more backbreaking effect, with a brutal effect every turn on buildup to ultimate and/or a double threaten - I'm thinking that the "Might just be good..." contingent are more than likely right - and more than likely the "Over-rated..." contingent like yourself are wrong, like often is shown.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
I'll let you take a wild guess as to whether WotC makes more money off of casual players or tournament players, and then I'll let you take another stab at which formats "matter."
Seriously, the card is flashy, iconic, and fun for an awful lot of players. It is a unique and powerful win condition. It definitely appeals to Timmy (GIANT PLANESWALKER BIG CRAZY ULTIMATE ABILITY) and Johnny(like the guy who posted Dream Halls out Conflux to fetch this guy, Doubling Season, and two cards to discard, then drop them both and pop your opponent to pieces... and if that's not Johnny, I don't know what is.) He definitely appeals to Vorthos. Whether it will appeal to Spikes remains to be determined, but I'd say that WotC hit a home run with this, obnoxious bashers such as yourself aside. I haven't played a non-sanctioned game of Magic in years, and I still recognize how excellently designed this card is.
:pumpkin:
I'm not sure why you're making the assumption that I thought the same thing about a considerably better card.
When I saw Cruel Ultimatum, I probably overestimated how good it was, imagining auto 2-3x in every 5cc deck.
Cruel Ultimatum is much better for two reasons (well, better due to one, much better due to the second):
A) Cost 1cc less, harder colors though
B) Doesn't sit vulnerable on the field for 2+ turns before you can reap the benefits.
Yes, Bolas gets the "BRUTAL EFFECT" of destroying a permanent each turn, which frankly is hardly brutal for a card that costs 8cc. You also have the choice of jacking a creature if you don't think he's going to live through it, but once again an 8cc Control Magic is beyond subpar.
The chance of him living to ultimate is slim, and really only likely to happen if you already have control of the board, aka win more.
Anyways, I'll bookmark this thread so I can remember to bump it in a few months and have a good chuckle.
Yes, that was probably a poor choice of words.
What I meant was, "competitive formats".
Thanks to PurpleD from Left Play Designs for the banner:D
U can pop what ur opponent shows, or steal what he tells.....
Option A: If you are losing and you have the 8 mana to play this guy, with him resolving, you can use his second abillity. With that ability you have your own defender, most likely something large and in charge, while he focuses on the walker who needs a beefy 3 to get through to kill him.
Option B: If the game is at a neutral state and you are creature for creature, spell for spell, play this guy to get an advantage. Before they can even play their Oblivion Ring you still either jacked a creature or blew up some non-creature threat.
Option C: If you are winning you can crush them with Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. Either they answer it be destroyed. That mana they had in reserve to keep your creatures from getting to them will be drained.
At least that's how I like to see it. This guy is the perfect late game permanent.