This card has "Sarkhan Vol" syndrome. People going nuts over his ultimate. Its been seen before where very few of the planeswalkers ultimates ever go off in competetive matches. The two who have theirs go off, Garruk and Elspeth, are special cases. Garruk only needs to be on the board one turn, and elspeth can protect herself while increasing her loyalty. Bolas needs two turns, and cant protect himself while working towards his ultimate.
If you resolve Bolas in a game, and he sticks, the +3 and -2 abilities will be more then enough to win the game by themselves, though. In all likelihood, the only time you'll ever use the unltimate is in a situation where you are already winning. This is because you will never hit the needed loyalty without being in a winning position.
The first two abilties are what decide if a planeswalker is playable, not their ultimate.
Actually getting his ability done first turn you drop him isn't hard to do. In fact, me and some friends have been testing a nice deck that drops Bolas on AVERAGE around turn 6 and has enough mana left over to roll into a -drum roll-
... Gilder Bairn!
Yeah, I know it's not a serious card. But it is pretty damn funny when you're running against a 5c Deck (or Faeries if you don't just get clustered by counters) and suddenly blast everything on the same turn.
This is situational, of course. In most games I've tested Bolas is far superior just for his first two abilities. "What's that? You have a Planeswalker? Well, not anymore. Stoic Angel? Give that here. You Sower'd my guy? I think I'll take it back now."
Overall it's not a GREAT deck, but we haven't seen the rest of Conflux. Who knows? Maybe some other cards in the set will make him that much better. I know Countersquall goes nicely with him, especially if comes down to a counterspell war.
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"Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing."
unless you are like me and go for the throat in 1v1 forgetting/ not caring about the planeswalkers but i think i would have to make an exception for bolas because unlike the others he is a BIG threat.
The way I see it is that if you get Bolas out you win the game. He covers pretty much any situation easily. If your opponent has good creatures, steal them first. If they don't then destroy permanents while their pathetic not-so-worth stealing creatures bounce of off Bolas' +3 loyalty bonus.
The problem is that competitivelyyou will never get Bolas out. Against aggro you will be most likely be dead before he drops and against control your opponent is going to counter him. The best you could hope for is a counter war....a counter war where you spent all your cards and mana trying to ramp into Nicol Bolas
I want this card but i will be surprised to see him outshine Garruk or Elspeth.
The way I see it is that if you get Bolas out you win the game. He covers pretty much any situation easily. If your opponent has good creatures, steal them first. If they don't then destroy permanents while their pathetic not-so-worth stealing creatures bounce of off Bolas' +3 loyalty bonus.
The problem is that competitivelyyou will never get Bolas out. Against aggro you will be most likely be dead before he drops and against control your opponent is going to counter him. The best you could hope for is a counter war....a counter war where you spent all your cards and mana trying to ramp into Nicol Bolas
I want this card but i will be surprised to see him outshine Garruk or Elspeth.
I think bolas has a shot at competitive play, look at Cruel Control right now and it is being played and doing fairly well, I know we have heard that argument over and over again yes, but my point is that people are complaining that he isnt a "win immediately" card. I'm glad he isnt because that would be just plain boring and we all know that if it was then the extra mana cost would make it clearly better than cruel ultimatum. It is completely different and win immiediately cards are never that- they require a lot of work (usually never good), I think his body being out there with such loyalty is a great advantage that we have yet to experience. Bottom line: He is something that we have not had before so there is a possibility of him being a powerful card. yes he can be countered, but like anything other deck there are weaknesses. I like the fact that the opponent will hold onto a counter during that period of time in fear of you dropping him; you play grixis the opponent will always have to keep it in the back of his mind that an ultimatum or a bolas is a future contention. WHen you drop him, you get a vindicate/control magic and a huge threat instantly with loyalty, because if the opponent cant win the next turn he is blowing up/stealing something else, even being able to destroy a key enchantment/or land for a non-green/white can be viable. 8 mana for two vindicates/control magic (albeit slow and late game) is not too bad at all, plus the loyalty and possible ultimate. the ultimate is a "win immediately" worthy ability, but you had to work at it and make some good decisions before you get there. SA far as flavor, I don't know too much about him, but he is loyal because he knows you are "evil", in my opinion being black and maybe he wont serve anyone unless they worthy to have so much mana. I dont know just my two cents.
I don't see how everyone says he's ultimate's going to win you the game. By the 10th turn I'd rather to holding a Banefire or any x damage spell than waiting for this guy to go off. It basically says -9 deal 7 damage sac some lands.
there was a day when a 9 mana card tooth and nail, was a force to be reckoned with in both standard and extended. its initial use gave a win condition that was immune to creature removal, and another that destroyed the opponants, and often your own as well, lands. that sounds alot like bolas doesnt it? i know that there arent urza lands in standard, but i think with the right accel, bolas could become a staple post lorwyn block rotation, because lets be honest, that entire block was incredibly powerful by any standards. looking at just block, even including core, bolas will see play.
why not in a quillspike deck? mosswort brigde him out on turn 3.
t1: mosswort nicol bolas
t2: devoted druid
t3: quillspike then combo then mosswort bridge once you get him out in play.
just thinking. good combo. could do it.
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"tomorrow is for those who prepare for it today." - ponder
500th post 9/25/09
2nd place at zendikar game day
3 times been in top 8 or 4
Turn 6? The earliest I think someone could hard-cast Bolas would be turn four:
On the play:
Turn one: vivid land (6 cards in hand)
Turn two: draw, Reflecting Pool, Fertile Ground on Reflecting Pool (5 cards in hand)
Turn three: draw, Plains, Garruk, untap Reflecting Pool and Plains, Rings of Brighthearth (3 cards in hand)
Turn four: draw, Plains, tap all four lands for GWWUB. Use Garruk's first ability to untap Reflecting Pool and Island. Rings of Brighthearth's ability triggers. Use GW to untap Reflecting Pool and Plains. After the first untap resolves, tap for WBR (WWUBBR floating). After the second untap resolves, tap for WW. Spend WWWWUBBR to play Nicol Bolas. Give Bolas +3 loyalty to destroy one of your opponent's three lands.
Turn one: Forest, Bird of Paradise (5 cards in hand)
Turn two: draw, Reflecting Pool, Fertile Ground on Reflecting Pool (4 cards in hand)
Turn three: draw, Springjack Pasture, Garruk, untap Springjack Pasture and Reflecting Pool, Rings of Brighthearth (2 cards in hand)
Turn four: draw, Island. Tap the lands for 1WUBB. Activate Garruk's +1 ability, and spend 1W to copy that ability. Target Reflecting Pool and Island both times. After the first untap, tap Reflecting Pool and Island for URG. After the second untap, tap Bird of Paradise and Island for UG. Spend UUUBBRGG to play Nicol Bolas. Activate his +3 ability, and tap reflecting pool for GG. Use GG to copy the ability. Destroy two of your opponent's three lands.
Of course, both of those assume no real counterspells/removal or anything of that sort, but it is fun to dream about. He'll definitely be going into my planeswalker deck.
Will his ultimate ever really see play? Probably not. His ultimate puts an opponent in such a tough position that, if they cannot deal with it, they will probably scoop before it is used. And you can't really build up Bolas' ultimate subtlety, because you are adding three each time, and it is such a big effect compared to other +1 abilities (pinging for 1 is far less noticable than blowing up a permanent). But Bolas' +3 and -2 abilities seem like they can be used to great effect in a number of board positions.
In a vacuum, he's a good card. The question is, concerning standard, will he be Tarmogoyf-level good (almost certainly not, and I will eat my hat (with pics!) if he does.)? Will he be Teferi good, where people have to make sure they can answer the card in their decks, or else play around it effectively (probably not)? Will he be like Demigod of Revenge, in that he would be in a couple of decks, but not really in any deck apart from those? Will he be around Teeg's level, occasionally surfacing in a few random decks before fading into relative obscurity again, a threat kept in the back of the mind but never really seen? Or will he be like Serra Avenger, with a bunch of hype, but never really finding a deck to be played in?
I think he's probably going to fall somewhere between "occassionally used," as Demigod of Revenge is, and "rarely used," as Serra Avenger was, but I am probably overestimating his value due to personal preference and the deck I play.
tl;dr: Bolas is good, will probably see occasional play if there is a deck out there for him. Otherwise, he'll sit on the sidelines, lonely and sad, like he used to do.
Listen, will all of you stop having a group wank and settle down? Yes, setting him up ability for ability to the Ultimatum is going to lead to it on top. Woo hoo. However, I can see this guy turning up somewhere. I'll say here what I say in every other thread. Everyone stop posting the same message over and over of, "Ultimatum's better," or, "he sucks." We get your opinion, got it 12 posts ago, now sod off and shut up.
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Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker - 4UBBR
Planeswalker - Bolas (M)
[+3] Destroy target noncreature permanent.
[-2] Gain control of target creature.
[-9] Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker deals 7 damage to target player. That player discards seven cards, then sacrifices seven permanents.
5
If that's accurate, it's pretty crazy how he comes down with 8 loyalty and kills something immediately. And quite sick how he can alternate between permanently stealing a creature, and destroying a noncreature, with an overall gain in loyalty. Do that a few times and suddenly you find yourself able to go ultimate, and what an ultimate it is.
None of my decks would use this, but still, respect for Nicol Bolas.
@drakelordphil: Actually, I'm pretty sure you can gank back your creature with his second ability (Assuming it works as stated... of course). Which makes the Sower ultimately useless, until they do something dumb like bounce it back and play it again.
Also, since you're playtesting him as well, if you'd like to compare Deck Lists, send me a pm or something. Maybe we can brainstorm.
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"Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing."
i love this card...i see alot of power from him, there has to be a way to play it out in standard...i mean if players can play out the paria angel then i'm sure this can be played as well...and yes i know he can be peged out fast, but he is a target that has to be dealt with or you win and if you find a way to get him out fast he just about promises a win, its great, i mean it needs testing but i could see this being strong in T2...wish it was the PR card...
Has anyone thought about how the cards look like? I'm not talking about "is it good" or "will it see play" (not always the same thing) but more Artwork + Flavor + Feeling.
The Artwork looks REALLY great imo. The Dragon really is really well done. As for flavor, NB is THE "Big Bad Planeswalker"! I think they did a pretty good job at getting the image of Nicol as well as the general feeling of such an old and mighty personage.
Even If I don't find a deck to put it in or cannot find a way to build a deck around him (which is THE theme of the mythic rares, after all), I'll still want to get at least one (more if possible) just to HAVE it and look at it... and if by any chance I get it as foil... WOW!!!!
If that's accurate, it's pretty crazy how he comes down with 8 loyalty and kills something immediately. And quite sick how he can alternate between permanently stealing a creature, and destroying a noncreature, with an overall gain in loyalty.
Stealing creatures is in red and blue with occasional splashing in black (ritual of the machine, enslave). But destroy non-creature (Woodfall primus' ability) in rbu? I'm looking forward to that card. It'd have been nice as a green card though.
I agree that Cruel Ultimatum is a better one shot than Nicol Bolas... But the thing is it's one and done. You can't use them the same way. Bolas needs to come down early and be used a couple times, then go off for the ultimate to really be useful. Cruel is used as a finisher. Nicol Bolas is really good... but if I had the mana I would like to end them with one shot of a Cruel Ultimatum
Rofl, this card is beyond Godlike... Imagine now how much powerful 5cc decks will become if include Nicol Bolas... :S
Indeed. I asked a 5cc player tonight if he will be including some Bolas when he is out. He said no. And then several (long) games he had tons of mana and nothing to do with it, and I was like, "See? If you had one copy of Bolas in there you might've drawn him a while ago and dropped him, blowing stuff up - something to do until you get Cruel - or he may just win the game for you..."
I dunno. It seems alright just to drop one copy in as kind of an extra, backup threat/win. In that particular deck.
That was a punch between the legs. I stated at least at playtesting that for the deck I was testing there weren´t situations were CU would be strictly worse or better than Bolas just that Bolas worked better for me till this point of time.
Also I said he might be played as Demigod was and Demigod was a few decks only, too...
Other than that I can only say don´t disturb the harmonic discussion we had by disrupting us with some "group wanking" or anything like that :-P
My apologies. I just got sick of reading the same messages over and over. I like the Bolas, and I can see him having a home somewhere, much like Demigod, as you said. I just don't wanna wade through the same old, "Ultimatum is better" over and over.
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He is going to be so buff But he is going to cost as much as Sarkhan Vol
($30 when he came out) or even more. Im estimating 30-40 when he comes out then he will drop. As far as I know there are no other planeswalkers being printed but that could change when the offical set list comes out.
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If you resolve Bolas in a game, and he sticks, the +3 and -2 abilities will be more then enough to win the game by themselves, though. In all likelihood, the only time you'll ever use the unltimate is in a situation where you are already winning. This is because you will never hit the needed loyalty without being in a winning position.
The first two abilties are what decide if a planeswalker is playable, not their ultimate.
... Gilder Bairn!
Yeah, I know it's not a serious card. But it is pretty damn funny when you're running against a 5c Deck (or Faeries if you don't just get clustered by counters) and suddenly blast everything on the same turn.
This is situational, of course. In most games I've tested Bolas is far superior just for his first two abilities. "What's that? You have a Planeswalker? Well, not anymore. Stoic Angel? Give that here. You Sower'd my guy? I think I'll take it back now."
Overall it's not a GREAT deck, but we haven't seen the rest of Conflux. Who knows? Maybe some other cards in the set will make him that much better. I know Countersquall goes nicely with him, especially if comes down to a counterspell war.
"Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing."
I wouldn't think so. I would just start blowing up the world as you see fit and steal any creatures your opponent lays down.
Trades
What enrages me is the 8 mana cost. If Nicol so wants not to be summoned, why is there a cost at all, i.e. why does he have a card?
Wouldn't he like to tempt people to use his strength, but then backstab you and steal your kidney? Not gonna happen if it's eight mana.
This card is a big let-down. Full of conceptual contradictions.
DDDDDDD:
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
The problem is that competitively you will never get Bolas out. Against aggro you will be most likely be dead before he drops and against control your opponent is going to counter him. The best you could hope for is a counter war....a counter war where you spent all your cards and mana trying to ramp into Nicol Bolas
I want this card but i will be surprised to see him outshine Garruk or Elspeth.
Thanks to SpiderBoy4 @ High~Light Studios
arguably the two best planeswalkers in magic.
Bolas has this...OH NO YOU DI'NT! feeling to it
Competitive play? Maybe.
Cornucopia of awesomeness? hell ya.
I like Turtles
t1: mosswort nicol bolas
t2: devoted druid
t3: quillspike then combo then mosswort bridge once you get him out in play.
just thinking. good combo. could do it.
500th post 9/25/09
2nd place at zendikar game day
3 times been in top 8 or 4
my trade stuff: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=167291
type 2: all decks are my own design
BRBRobsidian controlRBRB
fun deck:
URURpyrofiremind ascensionRURU
Obviously that deck might not want this guy but there are easy ways to cast him. Other then tapping 8 mana and casting him.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
On the play:
Turn one: vivid land (6 cards in hand)
Turn two: draw, Reflecting Pool, Fertile Ground on Reflecting Pool (5 cards in hand)
Turn three: draw, Plains, Garruk, untap Reflecting Pool and Plains, Rings of Brighthearth (3 cards in hand)
Turn four: draw, Plains, tap all four lands for GWWUB. Use Garruk's first ability to untap Reflecting Pool and Island. Rings of Brighthearth's ability triggers. Use GW to untap Reflecting Pool and Plains. After the first untap resolves, tap for WBR (WWUBBR floating). After the second untap resolves, tap for WW. Spend WWWWUBBR to play Nicol Bolas. Give Bolas +3 loyalty to destroy one of your opponent's three lands.
Turn one: Forest, Bird of Paradise (5 cards in hand)
Turn two: draw, Reflecting Pool, Fertile Ground on Reflecting Pool (4 cards in hand)
Turn three: draw, Springjack Pasture, Garruk, untap Springjack Pasture and Reflecting Pool, Rings of Brighthearth (2 cards in hand)
Turn four: draw, Island. Tap the lands for 1WUBB. Activate Garruk's +1 ability, and spend 1W to copy that ability. Target Reflecting Pool and Island both times. After the first untap, tap Reflecting Pool and Island for URG. After the second untap, tap Bird of Paradise and Island for UG. Spend UUUBBRGG to play Nicol Bolas. Activate his +3 ability, and tap reflecting pool for GG. Use GG to copy the ability. Destroy two of your opponent's three lands.
Of course, both of those assume no real counterspells/removal or anything of that sort, but it is fun to dream about. He'll definitely be going into my planeswalker deck.
Will his ultimate ever really see play? Probably not. His ultimate puts an opponent in such a tough position that, if they cannot deal with it, they will probably scoop before it is used. And you can't really build up Bolas' ultimate subtlety, because you are adding three each time, and it is such a big effect compared to other +1 abilities (pinging for 1 is far less noticable than blowing up a permanent). But Bolas' +3 and -2 abilities seem like they can be used to great effect in a number of board positions.
In a vacuum, he's a good card. The question is, concerning standard, will he be Tarmogoyf-level good (almost certainly not, and I will eat my hat (with pics!) if he does.)? Will he be Teferi good, where people have to make sure they can answer the card in their decks, or else play around it effectively (probably not)? Will he be like Demigod of Revenge, in that he would be in a couple of decks, but not really in any deck apart from those? Will he be around Teeg's level, occasionally surfacing in a few random decks before fading into relative obscurity again, a threat kept in the back of the mind but never really seen? Or will he be like Serra Avenger, with a bunch of hype, but never really finding a deck to be played in?
I think he's probably going to fall somewhere between "occassionally used," as Demigod of Revenge is, and "rarely used," as Serra Avenger was, but I am probably overestimating his value due to personal preference and the deck I play.
tl;dr: Bolas is good, will probably see occasional play if there is a deck out there for him. Otherwise, he'll sit on the sidelines, lonely and sad, like he used to do.
If that's accurate, it's pretty crazy how he comes down with 8 loyalty and kills something immediately. And quite sick how he can alternate between permanently stealing a creature, and destroying a noncreature, with an overall gain in loyalty. Do that a few times and suddenly you find yourself able to go ultimate, and what an ultimate it is.
None of my decks would use this, but still, respect for Nicol Bolas.
Also, since you're playtesting him as well, if you'd like to compare Deck Lists, send me a pm or something. Maybe we can brainstorm.
"Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing."
The Artwork looks REALLY great imo. The Dragon really is really well done. As for flavor, NB is THE "Big Bad Planeswalker"! I think they did a pretty good job at getting the image of Nicol as well as the general feeling of such an old and mighty personage.
Even If I don't find a deck to put it in or cannot find a way to build a deck around him (which is THE theme of the mythic rares, after all), I'll still want to get at least one (more if possible) just to HAVE it and look at it... and if by any chance I get it as foil... WOW!!!!
DCI Judge
Stealing creatures is in red and blue with occasional splashing in black (ritual of the machine, enslave). But destroy non-creature (Woodfall primus' ability) in rbu? I'm looking forward to that card. It'd have been nice as a green card though.
Hope I'm as lucky as I was widthShards (Got foil Sharkan in first pack. XD)
And the heavens will tremble....
- Seer's Parables
Deck
BU Fearies
RB Elemental/Horror
RB Artifact
BRG Dragonz
UBR Grixis
Oath BGUW
TPS BU
Tezz BUG
~Team Empire~
Indeed. I asked a 5cc player tonight if he will be including some Bolas when he is out. He said no. And then several (long) games he had tons of mana and nothing to do with it, and I was like, "See? If you had one copy of Bolas in there you might've drawn him a while ago and dropped him, blowing stuff up - something to do until you get Cruel - or he may just win the game for you..."
I dunno. It seems alright just to drop one copy in as kind of an extra, backup threat/win. In that particular deck.
My apologies. I just got sick of reading the same messages over and over. I like the Bolas, and I can see him having a home somewhere, much like Demigod, as you said. I just don't wanna wade through the same old, "Ultimatum is better" over and over.
($30 when he came out) or even more. Im estimating 30-40 when he comes out then he will drop. As far as I know there are no other planeswalkers being printed but that could change when the offical set list comes out.