You know, I have to agree with caffeine. It's not trolling just because you disagree with him, urzassedatives. Also, i think you misunderstood the meaning of the phrase "burst anyones bubble", since thats the only thing he said that could be interpreted as an admission of posting just to annoy people. Finally, I at least valued his post, since it's obvious he has a better grasp of what makes good literature than most of the people posting here.
I'll go so far as to say I welcomed his post. I haven't picked up any new books in a while, or read a magic book since Arena, so I was seriously considering buying them, especially since I like the flavor of the set. I can't stand crappy genre books though, and bluesoul made good arguments.
I have to agree with Sevarian here.
It is bad form when someone is accused of trolling just for voicing an opinion.
I have not read Ravnica, but I would probably use the same exact words which bluesoul used to describe the Magic novels which I have read (which is exactly why I do not read them anymore).
Urzassedatives, I think its time you apologized to bluesoul.
I have to agree with Sevarian here.
It is bad form when someone is accused of trolling just for voicing an opinion.
I have not read Ravnica, but I would probably use the same exact words which bluesoul used to describe the Magic novels which I have read (which is exactly why I do not read them anymore).
Urzassedatives, I think its time you apologized to bluesoul.
An opinion should be voiced properly, and bluesoul's form was not appropriate.
You say you would probably use the same exact words for describing RAV novel. Okay, if you have read Legions or Mirrodin block, that was awful. But Kamigawa and RAV novels are good, and unless you read them, you have no right to make comments like this. Saying "I would probably use the same exact words", judging all novels by one or two is ignorant, don't you think?
And last but not least: Seds is a mod. This is his work, and the warning was fully appropriate. Asking for an apology is a bit insolent.
Boreez, your post is pure spam.
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An opinion should be voiced properly, and bluesoul's form was not appropriate.
How was it not appropriate? As of yet no one has specified what is wrong with his posting other than the fact that it is negative.
We should be free to express negative as well as positive opionions in the forums. I personally appreciate the warning to avoid things that are not good.
Quote from Caranthir »
You say you would probably use the same exact words for describing RAV novel. Okay, if you have read Legions or Mirrodin block, that was awful. But Kamigawa and RAV novels are good, and unless you read them, you have no right to make comments like this.Saying "I would probably use the same exact words", judging all novels by one or two is ignorant, don't you think?
You misread what I wrote.
Read again:
Quote from Grolen »
I have not read Ravnica, but I would probably use the same exact words which bluesoul used to describe the Magic novels which I have read.
I said that the way bluesoul described the book is the same way I would describe the books I have read. I was not passing judgment on all books, I was refering to the words which I would use to describe the books I have read.
Trying to put words in someone else's mouth is ignorant, don't you think?
Quote from Caranthir »
And last but not least: Seds is a mod. This is his work, and the warning was fully appropriate.
I understand that he is a mod and for the most part I think he does a very good job. This is the only case where I have disagreed with a decision which I have seen him make and it suprised me for being so unreasonable.
After reading for more than a year I finally joined MTGS as a memeber this month so that I could start making posts, but I'm not going to take my time to add my thoughts if I am going to be censured by mods who don't agree with my opinion.
Quote from Caranthir »
Asking for an apology is a bit insolent.
Not being able to admit a mistake is a bit arrogant.
Urzassedative, with all due respect, I think you made poor judgement.
Please be open-minded enough to admit that.
Urzassed doesn't have to apologize to anybody, and bluesoul should have had more care with his comments. However, I do agree that generic genre books are soul-deadening.
The storyline is good, but trying to incorporate so many MtG card themes into a novel can be cheesy and cliche. I guess I'll have to buy this book myself to see how this matter is treated.
An opinion should be voiced properly, and bluesoul's form was not appropriate.
You say you would probably use the same exact words for describing RAV novel. Okay, if you have read Legions or Mirrodin block, that was awful. But Kamigawa and RAV novels are good, and unless you read them, you have no right to make comments like this. Saying "I would probably use the same exact words", judging all novels by one or two is ignorant, don't you think?
And last but not least: Seds is a mod. This is his work, and the warning was fully appropriate. Asking for an apology is a bit insolent.
Boreez, your post is pure spam.
Agreed:
A. The idea that Seds should apologize is silly at best. He's a moderator. Moderators have power to act at their discretion. Ergo, a moderator can do whatever he thinks is prudent in order to uphold the ToS, and has no responsibility whatsoever to "apologize" for whatever "mistake" he may have made.
B. This was not a mistake. Seds evaluated bluesoul's post as trolling and acted accordingly. That some of you think otherwise is unimportant because, frankly, your opinions don't matter.
C. If I am to personally evaluate bluesoul's post, I'd have to say Seds was correct. Dismissing all the books offhand without providing relevant reasons for it is trolling. It's like when I said Orzhov Pontiff su><0rz teh face. Besides, though some of the books were awful, none of them were really nightmare-ish to read, and some of them - the Brother's War comes to mind - were actually good.
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A. The idea that Seds should apologize is silly at best. He's a moderator. Moderators have power to act at their discretion. Ergo, a moderator can do whatever he thinks is prudent in order to uphold the ToS, and has no responsibility whatsoever to "apologize" for whatever "mistake" he may have made.
Since this rationale applies to any mistake one could ever make, when do you consider an apology to be appropriate? In real life, everyone behaves at his/her own discretion and takes only actions he/she is able to take and thinks to be prudent. Should no one apologize for anything ever? Similarly, should a person only do things he/she is responsible to do? Wouldn't you agree people should sometimes do things because it is nice or they think it's the right thing to do, regardless of responsibility?
B. This was not a mistake. Seds evaluated bluesoul's post as trolling and acted accordingly. That some of you think otherwise is unimportant because, frankly, your opinions don't matter.
Why argue with an opinion that doesn't matter? Isn't your agreement equally inconsequential as their disagreement? Also, the alleged mistake was in the evaluation, not in the actions that followed.
I haven't read any of the books precisely because I've heard such bad things about them from fans of fantasy fiction. I don't see anything wrong with the way the opinion was voiced in this case, and I also doubt very much that an equally brief and similarly worded positive opinion would be treated the same way.
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Quote from Horseshoe Hermit »
Karma doesn't exist. You can't depend on it. If you count on it for justice or catharsis, you will find that you have placed your emotions on very unstable ground; and you will either repeat your disappointment in society over and over, or you will engage in a persistent delusion to protect yourself from that feeling.
Since this rationale applies to any mistake one could ever make, when do you consider an apology to be appropriate? In real life, everyone behaves at his/her own discretion and takes only actions he/she is able to take and thinks to be prudent. Should no one apologize for anything ever?
That's a fallacy. Seds is a moderator; his authority to act virtually unquestioned comes from that position. Unlike normal people, who have to answer to other people's opinions, he couldn't care less. He essentially only has to answer to himself.
Similarly, should a person only do things he/she is responsible to do? Wouldn't you agree people should sometimes do things because it is nice or they think it's the right thing to do, regardless of responsibility?
Moral obligation plays no part in this matter as long as Seds continues to think he did the right thing.
Why argue with an opinion that doesn't matter?
...Because I wish to. Why create an argument structered around an opinion that doesn't matter? Outrage? French Revolutionist thinking?
Isn't your agreement equally inconsequential as their disagreement?
Precisely. We're not getting anywhere; we're simply debating the ethics/warrants of Seds' decision. If any of you fathom he'll give an apology, you live in a world of improbability.
[/quote]Also, the alleged mistake was in the evaluation, not in the actions that followed.[/quote]
I didn't realize I was championing the idea that moderators shouldn't moderate.
I haven't read any of the books precisely because I've heard such bad things about them from fans of fantasy fiction. I don't see anything wrong with the way the opinion was voiced in this case, and I also doubt very much that an equally brief and similarly worded positive opinion would be treated the same way.
That's because a brief, positive opinion doesn't pose the problem of offending someone. I could say: "Dude! Your dialectic compels me to hug you!" and nobody would be offended (though they may be frightened). Or, I could say: "My God! What deranged hobo taught YOU to argue?" and you may be a bit irked.
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~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
That's a fallacy. Seds is a moderator; his authority to act virtually unquestioned comes from that position. Unlike normal people, who have to answer to other people's opinions, he couldn't care less. He essentially only has to answer to himself.
As an existentialist, I'd argue that it's a fallacy that the unquestionability of anyone's actions come from a position of authority. As the sole arbiter of your own decisions, you needn't answer to anyone. Let them react as they see fit.
Moral obligation plays no part in this matter as long as Seds continues to think he did the right thing.
That's exactly what I was saying. He need not be obligated in any way for it to be an appropriate course of action, should he consider it to be right. My disagreement with you here is obviously just semantic.
Precisely. We're not getting anywhere; we're simply debating the ethics/warrants of Seds' decision. If any of you fathom he'll give an apology, you live in a world of improbability.
I agree. None of us are going to make it happen and I also doubt that it will. We're discussing it, because, as you said, we wish to. Why bother to point out the obvious?
I didn't realize I was championing the idea that moderators shouldn't moderate.
On the contrary. If I were to take you literally I'd think you were championing the idea that moderators should moderate at every whim and every opportunity simply because they can.
That's because a brief, positive opinion doesn't pose the problem of offending someone. I could say: "Dude! Your dialectic compels me to hug you!" and nobody would be offended (though they may be frightened). Or, I could say: "My God! What deranged hobo taught YOU to argue?" and you may be a bit irked.
Not only would I not be irked, I would find humor in it. If anyone if offended at the idea of someone posting a negative opinion of a book he or she likes, then I would suggest they need to lighten up a bit. There were no insults involved, nor was the opinion unsupported and devoid of content.
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Quote from Horseshoe Hermit »
Karma doesn't exist. You can't depend on it. If you count on it for justice or catharsis, you will find that you have placed your emotions on very unstable ground; and you will either repeat your disappointment in society over and over, or you will engage in a persistent delusion to protect yourself from that feeling.
That's because a brief, positive opinion doesn't pose the problem of offending someone. I could say: "Dude! Your dialectic compels me to hug you!" and nobody would be offended (though they may be frightened). Or, I could say: "My God! What deranged hobo taught YOU to argue?" and you may be a bit irked.
I agree with you. but how could the original post offend?
Quote from bluesoul »
I hate to burst anyone's bubble but Ravnica was bad. Bad bad bad bad bad. Character development was lol, plot development was lacking and the story went off on tangents frequently, and it was just cheesy enough to get away with most of it.
He said nothing against anyone else on the thread.
If he had done so, I would agree with you, but he was slamming a BOOK.
An inanimate object. The kind of inanimate object which we come here to these threads to discuss.
Know that most of the past 10 or so posts on this thread are completely off-topic and do NOT belong on a thread for discussion.
Take such questions up with the site admins.
This is not the way to handle questioning of mod decisions.
I do not retract the warning I gave in the least, but I do see how it was a borderline post.
But look at all that came out of it.
Lots of spam.
As many have said, we have a storyline forum.
If you want to discuss the book, go there.
This thread is done.
(Not like any book discussion was ever on it anyway)
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I have to agree with Sevarian here.
It is bad form when someone is accused of trolling just for voicing an opinion.
I have not read Ravnica, but I would probably use the same exact words which bluesoul used to describe the Magic novels which I have read (which is exactly why I do not read them anymore).
Urzassedatives, I think its time you apologized to bluesoul.
An opinion should be voiced properly, and bluesoul's form was not appropriate.
You say you would probably use the same exact words for describing RAV novel. Okay, if you have read Legions or Mirrodin block, that was awful. But Kamigawa and RAV novels are good, and unless you read them, you have no right to make comments like this. Saying "I would probably use the same exact words", judging all novels by one or two is ignorant, don't you think?
And last but not least: Seds is a mod. This is his work, and the warning was fully appropriate. Asking for an apology is a bit insolent.
Boreez, your post is pure spam.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
How was it not appropriate? As of yet no one has specified what is wrong with his posting other than the fact that it is negative.
We should be free to express negative as well as positive opionions in the forums. I personally appreciate the warning to avoid things that are not good.
You misread what I wrote.
Read again:
I said that the way bluesoul described the book is the same way I would describe the books I have read. I was not passing judgment on all books, I was refering to the words which I would use to describe the books I have read.
Trying to put words in someone else's mouth is ignorant, don't you think?
I understand that he is a mod and for the most part I think he does a very good job. This is the only case where I have disagreed with a decision which I have seen him make and it suprised me for being so unreasonable.
After reading for more than a year I finally joined MTGS as a memeber this month so that I could start making posts, but I'm not going to take my time to add my thoughts if I am going to be censured by mods who don't agree with my opinion.
Not being able to admit a mistake is a bit arrogant.
Urzassedative, with all due respect, I think you made poor judgement.
Please be open-minded enough to admit that.
The storyline is good, but trying to incorporate so many MtG card themes into a novel can be cheesy and cliche. I guess I'll have to buy this book myself to see how this matter is treated.
Agreed:
A. The idea that Seds should apologize is silly at best. He's a moderator. Moderators have power to act at their discretion. Ergo, a moderator can do whatever he thinks is prudent in order to uphold the ToS, and has no responsibility whatsoever to "apologize" for whatever "mistake" he may have made.
B. This was not a mistake. Seds evaluated bluesoul's post as trolling and acted accordingly. That some of you think otherwise is unimportant because, frankly, your opinions don't matter.
C. If I am to personally evaluate bluesoul's post, I'd have to say Seds was correct. Dismissing all the books offhand without providing relevant reasons for it is trolling. It's like when I said Orzhov Pontiff su><0rz teh face. Besides, though some of the books were awful, none of them were really nightmare-ish to read, and some of them - the Brother's War comes to mind - were actually good.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Since this rationale applies to any mistake one could ever make, when do you consider an apology to be appropriate? In real life, everyone behaves at his/her own discretion and takes only actions he/she is able to take and thinks to be prudent. Should no one apologize for anything ever? Similarly, should a person only do things he/she is responsible to do? Wouldn't you agree people should sometimes do things because it is nice or they think it's the right thing to do, regardless of responsibility?
Why argue with an opinion that doesn't matter? Isn't your agreement equally inconsequential as their disagreement? Also, the alleged mistake was in the evaluation, not in the actions that followed.
I haven't read any of the books precisely because I've heard such bad things about them from fans of fantasy fiction. I don't see anything wrong with the way the opinion was voiced in this case, and I also doubt very much that an equally brief and similarly worded positive opinion would be treated the same way.
About Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx:
That's a fallacy. Seds is a moderator; his authority to act virtually unquestioned comes from that position. Unlike normal people, who have to answer to other people's opinions, he couldn't care less. He essentially only has to answer to himself.
Moral obligation plays no part in this matter as long as Seds continues to think he did the right thing.
...Because I wish to. Why create an argument structered around an opinion that doesn't matter? Outrage? French Revolutionist thinking?
Precisely. We're not getting anywhere; we're simply debating the ethics/warrants of Seds' decision. If any of you fathom he'll give an apology, you live in a world of improbability.
[/quote]Also, the alleged mistake was in the evaluation, not in the actions that followed.[/quote]
I didn't realize I was championing the idea that moderators shouldn't moderate.
That's because a brief, positive opinion doesn't pose the problem of offending someone. I could say: "Dude! Your dialectic compels me to hug you!" and nobody would be offended (though they may be frightened). Or, I could say: "My God! What deranged hobo taught YOU to argue?" and you may be a bit irked.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
As an existentialist, I'd argue that it's a fallacy that the unquestionability of anyone's actions come from a position of authority. As the sole arbiter of your own decisions, you needn't answer to anyone. Let them react as they see fit.
That's exactly what I was saying. He need not be obligated in any way for it to be an appropriate course of action, should he consider it to be right. My disagreement with you here is obviously just semantic.
I agree. None of us are going to make it happen and I also doubt that it will. We're discussing it, because, as you said, we wish to. Why bother to point out the obvious?
On the contrary. If I were to take you literally I'd think you were championing the idea that moderators should moderate at every whim and every opportunity simply because they can.
Not only would I not be irked, I would find humor in it. If anyone if offended at the idea of someone posting a negative opinion of a book he or she likes, then I would suggest they need to lighten up a bit. There were no insults involved, nor was the opinion unsupported and devoid of content.
About Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx:
I agree with you. but how could the original post offend?
He said nothing against anyone else on the thread.
If he had done so, I would agree with you, but he was slamming a BOOK.
An inanimate object. The kind of inanimate object which we come here to these threads to discuss.
Take such questions up with the site admins.
This is not the way to handle questioning of mod decisions.
I do not retract the warning I gave in the least, but I do see how it was a borderline post.
But look at all that came out of it.
Lots of spam.
As many have said, we have a storyline forum.
If you want to discuss the book, go there.
This thread is done.
(Not like any book discussion was ever on it anyway)
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