i call fake simply because anyone who has paid attention to the rumor mill and has a wee bit of creativity could throw together anything such as these cards. if anything, posts like this just make me not look forward to this set.
@ Jentsu: the "ditto" refers to the "you may draw one of these rfg cards instead of untapping." Copy/paste woulda worked just as well...but seeing as how all of these are paraphrased...I'm guessing he/his source caught a glimpse of the cards but wasn't able to copy word-for-word (assuming they're real; were they fake i imagine they'd be a bit more official-like).
@ Bork: hi Eradicate. Reprinted in kamigawa block even.
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ok... I have no final say about the validity of these cards, but I do want to talk about a few things.
Green card-drawers: Ok... so way back when Onslaught came out, there was this odd little green card called Hystrodon. And people were confused about this card; they thought it felt blue and not green. Then wizards came out and said that they were switching the "Ophidian" ability over to green. But wait... in just the next set they printed Synapse Sliver. What was going on? In champions Seshiro the Anointed came out, and in BOK, Ninja of the Deep Hours. All in all, it seems that the ability is now split between the two colors. I can believe these cards.
Wordings on cards: OBVIOUSLY, this guy doesn't have the cards with him. He probably gathered information from another source and is trying to repeat what he was told/can remember. I don't think someone who was trying to fake cards would be sooo stupid as to have incorrect wording.
Double-Common Cards: This is what I just can't get my head around. It's feesible that wizards could do this, but god... why? The cards themselves suck, and they disrupt drafting by being oddly double-common. The only thing that I can think is that they were meant to teach players about the new mana symbols, but this seems to be SUCH a stupid way to do it. I reserve judgement on this.
Green's card draw comes from lands and creatures...like 'compost leads to new paths'. Or cantrip creatures. Blue is the color that gets that form of card draw.
Actually, the monogreen cards draw cards off damaging a player, and, as we've seen in the past, green also gets this mechanic. So they're perfectly fine, and I'd go as far as say they're very interesting. The RFG part is a little awkward, but seem to be necessary to the unique way those cards play (you may draw it if you want, but if you're manaflooded, you can let lands removed this way remain removed, and so on).
As everyone has said, if they are fake (which I would suspect) then they are at least very clever and interesting cards.
Yes, and that's exactly why I think they are real! The only really doubtful details IMO are the super-common thing and the abundance of cards using guild mana along with regular mana. Other than that, they feel pretty real. They might turn out to be fake, but a very good fake at that.
Most interesting part about these cards is that they draw you cards INSTEAD of untaping, and only if they are in play, so they are not that strong. If you get 2 cards on the 1/1 guy, and your opponent kills it, you will never draw them. Also, knowing how many cards to draw off of them, or how long to keep them attacking, then untapping, etc, is very interesting. They just don't seem like fakes.
As everyone has said, if they are fake (which I would suspect) then they are at least very clever and interesting cards.
Yes, but ones that had absolutely no time put into wording them right.
For those saying they must be real because only someone really stupid would fake cards and not even word them right or give good names for them before posting them, well believe it or not, there are some really stupid people out there, and you shouldn't just write it off as, "Well, surely he couldn't that stupid." The greatest tricks are put under microscopes and shown to be fakes, but something blatently fake is let off, saying no one's that stupid. It makes no sense.
I'm not saying this is definitely fake, though; it's mostly just saying it's poorly worded, but it does have a lot of other problems with it. It's been explained some possible explainations why, but Juan still hasn't said anything else about it.
There was a good bit of thought put into these cards, but if they turn up as fake, I don't think they were "good" fakes by any stretch. He could've made up some names and worded the abilities better if they were good fakes. These are either poor fakes, or maybe just done from memory.
Yes, but ones that had absolutely no time put into wording them right.
We've had tons of mis-worded cards confirmed in the past. If those are real, Juan clearly saw them, and then didn't feel like putting much effort into making "official" wordings. Or maybe he plainly sucks at templating (many people do). All in all, it's not at all a reason to call these cards fake. You may have a problem with the effects, mana costs, color wheel. But he clearly doesn't want to imply those are the actual wordings, so attacking them is not a valid point.
I know you didn't call them fake, but I don't really think this is a point that should raise any doubts about their legitimacy.
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Seems like a way to do 'Gold cards without Gold Borders' is the focus of the new Expansion. How cute.
From what I understand, guild-mana cards DO have gold borders.
I don't see how people are totally against the Runes, as many of the mechanics do make sense. People keep saying how black doesn't get card draw without using up resources, but what does that make cycling then? There have been cycling cards for B before. The concept for the runes seems pretty cool, and something I think MaRo definitely came up with.
I dunno if it's real, devil's advocate is the place to be.
We've had tons of mis-worded cards confirmed in the past. If those are real, Juan clearly saw them, and then didn't feel like putting much effort into making "official" wordings. Or maybe he plainly sucks at templating (many people do). All in all, it's not at all a reason to call these cards fake. You may have a problem with the effects, mana costs, color wheel. But he clearly doesn't want to imply those are the actual wordings, so attacking them is not a valid point.
Yeah. I know. Bad templatings get to me. What I really used as points against him were things like being out of the color pie (such as the abilities he stated would be on the "runes") or really just "not right" feeling (like "runes" being doubly common, among other things). The bad templatings weren't a point for them being fake, but they were a point saying that if they were fake, then the bad wordings and lack of names kept them from being classified as anything near "good fakes" for the most of them.
@gobboboy: There have been cycling cards for R, too. Do you expect red to get a card drawing spell?
According to some collateral information I've been told, which I'm 85% sure is accurate, at least two of these cards are impossible to exist. Unfortunately I was told not to reveal this particular tidbit, but I have no problem using it to counteract fakes! And it definitely makes this look fake. I'd say 85% sure this is bogus, since if at least two of the cards aren't real, the rest aren't either.
I don't see how people are totally against the Runes, as many of the mechanics do make sense. People keep saying how black doesn't get card draw without using up resources, but what does that make cycling then? There have been cycling cards for B before. The concept for the runes seems pretty cool, and something I think MaRo definitely came up with.
I dunno if it's real, devil's advocate is the place to be.
Cycling definitely involves using up resources. Discard a card to draw a card. Doesn't get much more streamlined than that in terms of giving something up to draw cards.
Still, I don't see any reason why the UB guild thing couldn't draw cards. Even if it is Black, it's also blue.
According to some collateral information I've been told, which I'm 85% sure is accurate, at least two of these cards are impossible to exist. Unfortunately I was told not to reveal this particular tidbit, but I have no problem using it to counteract fakes! And it definitely makes this look fake. I'd say 85% sure this is bogus, since if at least two of the cards aren't real, the rest aren't either.
Is it that guild mana and regular mana don't appear in the same cost?
I think it's obvious that what RE is refering to are the two "If C was spent..." cards. I'm pretty sure that he knows a cycle of these cards (like Spoling or whatever) and has reason to believe that ONLY cards in that cycle have that ability, meaning these two cards are impossible.
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@ Bork: hi Eradicate. Reprinted in kamigawa block even.
Green card-drawers: Ok... so way back when Onslaught came out, there was this odd little green card called Hystrodon. And people were confused about this card; they thought it felt blue and not green. Then wizards came out and said that they were switching the "Ophidian" ability over to green. But wait... in just the next set they printed Synapse Sliver. What was going on? In champions Seshiro the Anointed came out, and in BOK, Ninja of the Deep Hours. All in all, it seems that the ability is now split between the two colors. I can believe these cards.
Wordings on cards: OBVIOUSLY, this guy doesn't have the cards with him. He probably gathered information from another source and is trying to repeat what he was told/can remember. I don't think someone who was trying to fake cards would be sooo stupid as to have incorrect wording.
Double-Common Cards: This is what I just can't get my head around. It's feesible that wizards could do this, but god... why? The cards themselves suck, and they disrupt drafting by being oddly double-common. The only thing that I can think is that they were meant to teach players about the new mana symbols, but this seems to be SUCH a stupid way to do it. I reserve judgement on this.
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Yes, but ones that had absolutely no time put into wording them right.
For those saying they must be real because only someone really stupid would fake cards and not even word them right or give good names for them before posting them, well believe it or not, there are some really stupid people out there, and you shouldn't just write it off as, "Well, surely he couldn't that stupid." The greatest tricks are put under microscopes and shown to be fakes, but something blatently fake is let off, saying no one's that stupid. It makes no sense.
I'm not saying this is definitely fake, though; it's mostly just saying it's poorly worded, but it does have a lot of other problems with it. It's been explained some possible explainations why, but Juan still hasn't said anything else about it.
There was a good bit of thought put into these cards, but if they turn up as fake, I don't think they were "good" fakes by any stretch. He could've made up some names and worded the abilities better if they were good fakes. These are either poor fakes, or maybe just done from memory.
Seems like a way to do 'Gold cards without Gold Borders' is the focus of the new Expansion. How cute.
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I know you didn't call them fake, but I don't really think this is a point that should raise any doubts about their legitimacy.
From what I understand, guild-mana cards DO have gold borders.
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I dunno if it's real, devil's advocate is the place to be.
Yeah. I know. Bad templatings get to me. What I really used as points against him were things like being out of the color pie (such as the abilities he stated would be on the "runes") or really just "not right" feeling (like "runes" being doubly common, among other things). The bad templatings weren't a point for them being fake, but they were a point saying that if they were fake, then the bad wordings and lack of names kept them from being classified as anything near "good fakes" for the most of them.
@gobboboy: There have been cycling cards for R, too. Do you expect red to get a card drawing spell?
.
Cycling definitely involves using up resources. Discard a card to draw a card. Doesn't get much more streamlined than that in terms of giving something up to draw cards.
Still, I don't see any reason why the UB guild thing couldn't draw cards. Even if it is Black, it's also blue.
Is it that guild mana and regular mana don't appear in the same cost?
Green is second best at card draw in the "new pie", guys. Unlike blue, all of it is creature-based.