just think Saga & Mirrodin, both artifact sets, but indeniably different in approach, I like it!
Actually they've said many times that Saga was an Enchantment block, as seen in cards like Opalescence, Endless Wurm, the recurring enchantments, the "growing" enchantments, the enchantment-turn-creature cards, Replenish, etc. The fact it had an absurd amount of completely broken artifacts and Tolarian Academy is not the theme's fault.
All this hype about Ravnica is starting to tell me that something isn't right. When a set is overhyped it tends to falter in the delivery of quality; Tempest was overrated and overhyped. Saga was underrated and hardly reviewed (yet it's one of the most powerful and influential blocks of all time); Masques was hyped up and it failed to deliver what people were expecting. Invasion was moderate as it seemed to have matched the hype given to it. Odyssey...ehh...overhyped I think. Onslaught...same thing. Mirrodin was hypedm but not to the extent that Tempest or Masques were. Mirrodin actually did deliver, and deliver it did. Look at how it's affected the environment on all accounts.
Anything that's overhyped fails to stimulate the interest because they're trying to make up for something that isn't there. And they know that too. Or else they wouldn't have pushed the product so hard just to get sales. If the set was relatively decent then there wouldn't be a need to hype it up to ungodly levels.
I need Kraft Dinner.
'buster
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All this hype about Ravnica is starting to tell me that something isn't right. When a set is overhyped it tends to falter in the delivery of quality; Tempest was overrated and overhyped. Saga was underrated and hardly reviewed (yet it's one of the most powerful and influential blocks of all time); Masques was hyped up and it failed to deliver what people were expecting. Invasion was moderate as it seemed to have matched the hype given to it. Odyssey...ehh...overhyped I think. Onslaught...same thing. Mirrodin was hypedm but not to the extent that Tempest or Masques were. Mirrodin actually did deliver, and deliver it did. Look at how it's affected the environment on all accounts.
Anything that's overhyped fails to stimulate the interest because they're trying to make up for something that isn't there. And they know that too. Or else they wouldn't have pushed the product so hard just to get sales. If the set was relatively decent then there wouldn't be a need to hype it up to ungodly levels.
I need Kraft Dinner.
'buster
Well...
Mirrodin and Urza Blocks were overpowered, and encouraged nonlinear or degenerate recursive deck design. It stands to reason that the following block will be compared unfavorably to the "power sets" that preceded it. Masques Block was deliberately toned down to bring the average power level of Magic deck archetypes back on course, so that future blocks and formats would not escalate into Combo Winter just to be on a par with Urza Block. It seems CoK Block is also veering away from the convenience and ubiquity of artifacts and centring on a slower, more interactive game. Keep in mind that some of the mechanics of these blocks have to cater to Sealed Deck play as well as Constructed.
I think in this regard they have done rather well, with the exception of Affinity, and not every Affinity card was overpowered. I enjoy CoK Block draft more than Mirr block draft for the simple reason that there is less versatility and you have to make harder choices about colors and spell types. It's more challenging. I also think Constructed is balanced but slower, giving players more interaction and rewarding better playskill over a longer game, than 'who draws a Plating first'.
On topic: Would like to see any info you have on Saviors, it would help put the next set into perspective and lend credibility to your source.
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I hope a 'second box of text' is never going to happen.
I'm pretty sure it will. Not necessarilly the next block, but I honestly can't see them not adding something completelty new within the next few years.
...shouldn't we all be hunting down the latest inquest mag (released wed 6th april i believe) for the Saviors of kamigawa preview/ad's instead? Who's with me on this one?
*Hydrokinesis runs down to the local comic store to hunt for saviors ads*
As far as I saw, the closest thing to a hint I found at all was about 9th edition in the reply to the letter by Joe Alsip the titled Crazy Eigth. Somebody asked about getting the basic magic rules (from jail of course) and after suggessting the Eigth Edition two player stater game they said "or wait till Ninth Edition hits this summer for those rules. Don't let the screws pop your Spore Frog." I really doubt that is any sort of hint at all but it was the closets thing I could find in the whole magazine. To bad. THere was an add that I think pictured promo cards but if they are I think they are already out. It is hard to see the expansion symbol.
Anyway...... back on topic. I really have trouble beliving this. It just seems way to early. Maybe it could be real but I really don't think we would be able to get any info at this point.
I call BS. Theres no way they would reformat the card layout to put some guild thing in. No way. Also I doubt they will make 15 guilds, thats just too many and going from Ally color to enemy color to mono is just not how wizards does it, it gets more wacky and more multicolored as sets progress.
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I call BS. Theres no way they would reformat the card layout to put some guild thing in. No way. Also I doubt they will make 15 guilds, thats just too many and going from Ally color to enemy color to mono is just not how wizards does it, it gets more wacky and more multicolored as sets progress.
I've seen the flip legends from CHK, you wanna run that BS you is sayin' by me one more time?:grin2:
I call BS. Flip creatures are one thing, as are split spells, but just to simply add "affiliation" to a card? Jeez, gimme a break. You could put that in the text box, simply saying "Affiliation - Type", boom, end of story. You don't need another box for that seperately, especially since if there IS affiliation (suspend my disbelief for a second) chances are it would need reminder text to let players know what the rules are. Otherwise it would be very very confusing.
Not to mention that there are only a handful of flip creatures and split cards... The way I'm understanding it, almost everything in this set has some guild alliance (according to this "info") so most cards are going to have this new template for no logical reason? Nyuh uh... I call fake.
I call BS. Flip creatures are one thing, as are split spells, but just to simply add "affiliation" to a card? Jeez, gimme a break. You could put that in the text box, simply saying "Affiliation - Type", boom, end of story. You don't need another box for that seperately, especially since if there IS affiliation (suspend my disbelief for a second) chances are it would need reminder text to let players know what the rules are. Otherwise it would be very very confusing.
Not to mention that there are only a handful of flip creatures and split cards... The way I'm understanding it, almost everything in this set has some guild alliance (according to this "info") so most cards are going to have this new template for no logical reason? Nyuh uh... I call fake.
If it's in the text box, it's a keyword. Is affiliation something you want keyworded? No, it's clearly just a catagory like Arcane. They can't put it in the creature type box, so...
Why shouldn't it be keyworded? Obviously there are rules involved with the particular card that has affiliation. Arcane on the other hand does absolutely nothing on it's own. It's simply a subtype. Only cards with splice or spiritcraft actually care if something is arcane or not, other than that, arcane makes VERY little difference. This on the other hand has some form of rules going along with affiliation, otherwise it would be pointless. If it's stating a subtype, well I'm sure they can make that a creature type, such as (making up a guild name, lets say Karuk guild) Creature - Karukian Human. It makes no sense to make a seperate box for either a subtype, or for a rules association, because either would belong somewhere else.
Why shouldn't it be keyworded? Obviously there are rules involved with the particular card that has affiliation. Arcane on the other hand does absolutely nothing on it's own. It's simply a subtype. Only cards with splice or spiritcraft actually care if something is arcane or not, other than that, arcane makes VERY little difference. This on the other hand has some form of rules going along with affiliation, otherwise it would be pointless. If it's stating a subtype, well I'm sure they can make that a creature type, such as (making up a guild name, lets say Karuk guild) Creature - Karukian Human. It makes no sense to make a seperate box for either a subtype, or for a rules association, because either would belong somewhere else.
If I read correct, Affiliation actually does NOTHING.
Also, why it can't be a creature type? Two guesses: (1) guild names are long and nonsense, (2) there may be multiguild members. In either case, they'd need two lines anyways to add the info to the creature type, and let's face it "employed by the blue guys" is a far cry from being a knight or a cleric, it's not a race, not a creature type, not a job class... it's something else.
If wizards can fit "Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirt", I'm sure they can fit Creature - (Guild) + Type into it. Even if it isn't a job or their race, it certainly makes sense to put it into there. Like I said, Creature - Karukian Human. (Made up guild name). Karukian isn't a job, nor is it their race, it's simply another title added onto the creature.
And if affiliation does NOTHING, why the hell would wizards print it? What would be the purpose? To interact between cards like spiritcraft does? Highly unlikely, nevermind the fact that your last thread was closed because it was deemed fake. This is no different.
Lastly, wizards has already stretched out the tongues of it's customers with Kamigawa, chances are they aren't going to make long and nonesense guild names. If there are multi-guild members, then they can have additional lines in their creature type. I vote this thread be locked down.
Still... the greatest thing this 15 guild thing you present to us has going against it is that your implementation of the idea means no guild gets more than one set of members. That would leave no room at all for the continuation of a stand-alone set mechanic WotC holds so dear to its heart. I just can't see MaRo go like "Sure, let's make this guild affiliation as narrow as possible so it can never compete with the great amounts of spirits Kamigawa block offered!"
Still... the greatest thing this 15 guild thing you present to us has going against it is that your implementation of the idea means no guild gets more than one set of members. That would leave no room at all for the continuation of a stand-alone set mechanic WotC holds so dear to its heart. I just can't see MaRo go like "Sure, let's make this guild affiliation as narrow as possible so it can never compete with the great amounts of spirits Kamigawa block offered!"
I don't know, how many madness/flashback cards did you really need for U/G Madness?
I'd hope they do some well costed stuff in Rav, but as it's a Masques-redeco, I somehow doubt it. But then again, there are NO valid standard Spiritcraft decks, there's one halfway decent G/R spiritcraft block deck; and maybe a demon deck to be made, but that's not exactly the highlight of the block.
Keep in mind everything going on right now in standard is overshadowed by the power of Mirrodin. Champions doesn't have a chance yet to make an impact.
I also find this funny how the creator of this thread and tightlinebob are in agreement with eachother, and post these threads at around the same time. Funny eh? It's probably the same guy, and if I were a mod I might do an IP check just to see, and that will tell all.
I don't know, how many madness/flashback cards did you really need for U/G Madness?
I'd hope they do some well costed stuff in Rav, but as it's a Masques-redeco, I somehow doubt it. But then again, there are NO valid standard Spiritcraft decks, there's one halfway decent G/R spiritcraft block deck; and maybe a demon deck to be made, but that's not exactly the highlight of the block.
There's truth in your first words. There is however a very valid B/R spirit deck, but I gather you haven't played against it yet. Devouring Greed is indeed a very lame card.
I still don't think fifteen different guilds would have seemed more enjoyable to R&D than five (or even ten) guilds without ruining the support and card availability to other mechanics. We'll see though, at least it's not the most incredible rumor posted
Keep in mind everything going on right now in standard is overshadowed by the power of Mirrodin. Champions doesn't have a chance yet to make an impact.
I also find this funny how the creator of this thread and tightlinebob are in agreement with eachother, and post these threads at around the same time. Funny eh? It's probably the same guy, and if I were a mod I might do an IP check just to see, and that will tell all.
Funny how you are in agreement with a dozen others in this thread. A simple IP check will show how many other posts you share a frat house with. I say do it, and ban everyone with like IPs.
Back on topic: But there IS NO Power to Kamagawa. Look at block: Dampen thought, G/R spirits, RedDeckTRIES, and maybe some bastard demon/spirit/ogre combo. ANd MonoU control... which has a total of maybe 4 playable counters and Meloku. Snakes. Oh, maybe U/G control/aggro too. Who knows. But we do know they can't hold a candle to affinity or tooth and nail or Big Red...
Funny story: Someone with a snake deck made it to the top 2 of FNM the last day ravager was legal. Guess which deck he lost to?
There's truth in your first words. There is however a very valid B/R spirit deck, but I gather you haven't played against it yet. Devouring Greed is indeed a very lame card.
I still don't think fifteen different guilds would have seemed more enjoyable to R&D than five (or even ten) guilds without ruining the support and card availability to other mechanics. We'll see though, at least it's not the most incredible rumor posted
Guilds is just an assinine masks/onslaught retread, with little to no payoff coming. But the original poster seemed excited, so I'll bite. I'd have expected maybe 3 main guilds in the base set, then add a guild each set... but my source didn't work on that block, so I don't know.
Funny how you are in agreement with a dozen others in this thread. A simple IP check will show how many other posts you share a frat house with. I say do it, and ban everyone with like IPs.
Back on topic: But there IS NO Power to Kamagawa. Look at block: Dampen thought, G/R spirits, RedDeckTRIES, and maybe some bastard demon/spirit/ogre combo. ANd MonoU control... which has a total of maybe 4 playable counters and Meloku. Snakes. Oh, maybe U/G control/aggro too. Who knows. But we do know they can't hold a candle to affinity or tooth and nail or Big Red...
Funny story: Someone with a snake deck made it to the top 2 of FNM the last day ravager was legal. Guess which deck he lost to?
Oh, wow. Kamigawa isn't as powerful as Mirrodin?
Whatever shall we do?
Well, that's because Mirrodin was one of the most overpowered blocks ever. Everything lost to Ravaffinity, not just Snakes.
Yeah, I'm not buying it. Even when people have been disappointed by the new mechanics that Wizards has introduced in new blocks, they've almost never just rehashed existing mechanics. This idea has essentially no difference from tribal -- a bunch of cards that boost each other based on sharing an identifier. Especially after Kamigawa has had a significant secondary tribal theme, there's no way R&D would think they could sell an entire new block simply by rehashing the mechanic again.
Furthermore, look back to the discussion of the flip creatures -- notice how Maro talked about how it was hard to convince people that it was okay to change the card template unless there was no better way to do it. There's obviously a better way to do this mechnic -- just keyword it -- so I can't imagine they're suddenly going to allow a random change of this sort.
As a final note: defensive much, tightlinebob? People with real information almost never make much of an effort to rebut people who don't believe them -- why bother, when everyone will see that they were right in months? People who make a big fuss about the truth of their information are almost always fakers, since it's important to have fake information believed right away, before real information disproves it.
Bob...stop spamming. You reply so often it almost seems as if you made this thread just so you had people to talk to. Mods, I request you lock this thread down seeing as how even though bob did not start the rumour he has already created fake info and seems to be backing this far too much suggesting that the original post was just a different name from the same guy.
Actually they've said many times that Saga was an Enchantment block, as seen in cards like Opalescence, Endless Wurm, the recurring enchantments, the "growing" enchantments, the enchantment-turn-creature cards, Replenish, etc. The fact it had an absurd amount of completely broken artifacts and Tolarian Academy is not the theme's fault.
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Anything that's overhyped fails to stimulate the interest because they're trying to make up for something that isn't there. And they know that too. Or else they wouldn't have pushed the product so hard just to get sales. If the set was relatively decent then there wouldn't be a need to hype it up to ungodly levels.
I need Kraft Dinner.
'buster
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Mirrodin and Urza Blocks were overpowered, and encouraged nonlinear or degenerate recursive deck design. It stands to reason that the following block will be compared unfavorably to the "power sets" that preceded it. Masques Block was deliberately toned down to bring the average power level of Magic deck archetypes back on course, so that future blocks and formats would not escalate into Combo Winter just to be on a par with Urza Block. It seems CoK Block is also veering away from the convenience and ubiquity of artifacts and centring on a slower, more interactive game. Keep in mind that some of the mechanics of these blocks have to cater to Sealed Deck play as well as Constructed.
I think in this regard they have done rather well, with the exception of Affinity, and not every Affinity card was overpowered. I enjoy CoK Block draft more than Mirr block draft for the simple reason that there is less versatility and you have to make harder choices about colors and spell types. It's more challenging. I also think Constructed is balanced but slower, giving players more interaction and rewarding better playskill over a longer game, than 'who draws a Plating first'.
On topic: Would like to see any info you have on Saviors, it would help put the next set into perspective and lend credibility to your source.
Bob
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Its too coincidental.
We also don't get so much quasi-specific info about a new block so early.
All the talk of 'his source' hurts his case, IMO.
I say fake, and I don't see much reason to see otherwise.
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I'm pretty sure it will. Not necessarilly the next block, but I honestly can't see them not adding something completelty new within the next few years.
As far as I saw, the closest thing to a hint I found at all was about 9th edition in the reply to the letter by Joe Alsip the titled Crazy Eigth. Somebody asked about getting the basic magic rules (from jail of course) and after suggessting the Eigth Edition two player stater game they said "or wait till Ninth Edition hits this summer for those rules. Don't let the screws pop your Spore Frog." I really doubt that is any sort of hint at all but it was the closets thing I could find in the whole magazine. To bad. THere was an add that I think pictured promo cards but if they are I think they are already out. It is hard to see the expansion symbol.
Anyway...... back on topic. I really have trouble beliving this. It just seems way to early. Maybe it could be real but I really don't think we would be able to get any info at this point.
Yeah. Then he doesn't give us any reason to suspect the source is anyone other than his ass.
I call fake.
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I've seen the flip legends from CHK, you wanna run that BS you is sayin' by me one more time?:grin2:
Not to mention that there are only a handful of flip creatures and split cards... The way I'm understanding it, almost everything in this set has some guild alliance (according to this "info") so most cards are going to have this new template for no logical reason? Nyuh uh... I call fake.
If it's in the text box, it's a keyword. Is affiliation something you want keyworded? No, it's clearly just a catagory like Arcane. They can't put it in the creature type box, so...
If I read correct, Affiliation actually does NOTHING.
Also, why it can't be a creature type? Two guesses: (1) guild names are long and nonsense, (2) there may be multiguild members. In either case, they'd need two lines anyways to add the info to the creature type, and let's face it "employed by the blue guys" is a far cry from being a knight or a cleric, it's not a race, not a creature type, not a job class... it's something else.
And if affiliation does NOTHING, why the hell would wizards print it? What would be the purpose? To interact between cards like spiritcraft does? Highly unlikely, nevermind the fact that your last thread was closed because it was deemed fake. This is no different.
Lastly, wizards has already stretched out the tongues of it's customers with Kamigawa, chances are they aren't going to make long and nonesense guild names. If there are multi-guild members, then they can have additional lines in their creature type. I vote this thread be locked down.
I don't know, how many madness/flashback cards did you really need for U/G Madness?
I'd hope they do some well costed stuff in Rav, but as it's a Masques-redeco, I somehow doubt it. But then again, there are NO valid standard Spiritcraft decks, there's one halfway decent G/R spiritcraft block deck; and maybe a demon deck to be made, but that's not exactly the highlight of the block.
I also find this funny how the creator of this thread and tightlinebob are in agreement with eachother, and post these threads at around the same time. Funny eh? It's probably the same guy, and if I were a mod I might do an IP check just to see, and that will tell all.
There's truth in your first words. There is however a very valid B/R spirit deck, but I gather you haven't played against it yet. Devouring Greed is indeed a very lame card.
I still don't think fifteen different guilds would have seemed more enjoyable to R&D than five (or even ten) guilds without ruining the support and card availability to other mechanics. We'll see though, at least it's not the most incredible rumor posted
Funny how you are in agreement with a dozen others in this thread. A simple IP check will show how many other posts you share a frat house with. I say do it, and ban everyone with like IPs.
Back on topic: But there IS NO Power to Kamagawa. Look at block: Dampen thought, G/R spirits, RedDeckTRIES, and maybe some bastard demon/spirit/ogre combo. ANd MonoU control... which has a total of maybe 4 playable counters and Meloku. Snakes. Oh, maybe U/G control/aggro too. Who knows. But we do know they can't hold a candle to affinity or tooth and nail or Big Red...
Funny story: Someone with a snake deck made it to the top 2 of FNM the last day ravager was legal. Guess which deck he lost to?
Guilds is just an assinine masks/onslaught retread, with little to no payoff coming. But the original poster seemed excited, so I'll bite. I'd have expected maybe 3 main guilds in the base set, then add a guild each set... but my source didn't work on that block, so I don't know.
Oh, wow. Kamigawa isn't as powerful as Mirrodin?
Whatever shall we do?
Well, that's because Mirrodin was one of the most overpowered blocks ever.
Everything lost to Ravaffinity, not just Snakes.
Furthermore, look back to the discussion of the flip creatures -- notice how Maro talked about how it was hard to convince people that it was okay to change the card template unless there was no better way to do it. There's obviously a better way to do this mechnic -- just keyword it -- so I can't imagine they're suddenly going to allow a random change of this sort.
As a final note: defensive much, tightlinebob? People with real information almost never make much of an effort to rebut people who don't believe them -- why bother, when everyone will see that they were right in months? People who make a big fuss about the truth of their information are almost always fakers, since it's important to have fake information believed right away, before real information disproves it.
In general: sketchy.
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