Do you think Rosheen Meanderer will be errata'd with the new diamond colorlesss mana symbols? Even though the mana it produces wouldn't ever be able to be used on Diamond mana costs?
Do you think Rosheen Meanderer will be errata'd with the new diamond colorlesss mana symbols? Even though the mana it produces wouldn't ever be able to be used on Diamond mana costs?
Why wouldn't it? If there's a spell costing {X}{C}{C}, for example, Rosheen would be able to pay for the colorless part of its cost.
Interesting. That would be the case if they printed a X cost diamond mana spell. If they don't I guess it would be the first time a card adds a specific mana symbol to your pool with no way of spending it on said mana symbol in costs, which is just really weird.
Nothing is changing about the way Rosheen works even though it will say:
{T}: Add {C}{C}{C}{C} to your mana pool. Spend this mana only on costs that contain {X}.
Do you think Rosheen Meanderer will be errata'd with the new diamond colorlesss mana symbols?
Yes. "Add {4} to your mana pool" will not be possible under the future rules, just like you can't add hybrid mana or phyrexian mana to your mana pool. Just like those, {4} will be a symbol used only on costs.
Even though the mana it produces wouldn't ever be able to be used on Diamond mana costs?
I don't think that's relevant. Colorless mana producers will use {C} because that's the colorless mana symbol starting with OGW; {C}-costs also existing is parallel to that.
And, as Marek14 said, nothing prevents the creation of a spell costing {X}{C}{C} or similar.
Right, it still functions the exact same. I was just bringing up how it will create a strange design instance for mana-symbols that hasn't happened before.
Right, it still functions the exact same. I was just bringing up how it will create a strange design instance for mana-symbols that hasn't happened before.
Actually, there was, for a while, Vedalken Engineer. Until Sarcomite Myr, his mana being colored and being usable to cast artifacts were mutually exclusive functions.
Right, it still functions the exact same. I was just bringing up how it will create a strange design instance for mana-symbols that hasn't happened before.
Actually, there was, for a while, Vedalken Engineer. Until Sarcomite Myr, his mana being colored and being usable to cast artifacts were mutually exclusive functions.
I guess a small technicality is that Vedalken Engineer was templated in such a way due to the fact that there were already artifacts with colored mana symbols in their abilities by that time. But yeah, you're right about there not being colored artifacts yet.
Right, it still functions the exact same. I was just bringing up how it will create a strange design instance for mana-symbols that hasn't happened before.
Actually, there was, for a while, Vedalken Engineer. Until Sarcomite Myr, his mana being colored and being usable to cast artifacts were mutually exclusive functions.
I guess a small technicality is that Vedalken Engineer was templated in such a way due to the fact that there were already artifacts with colored mana symbols in their abilities by that time. But yeah, you're right about there not being colored artifacts yet.
Well, WotC could have made it produce colorless for artifact spells, and colored for artifact abilities, but that would have made it wordier. So they kept it simple, at the cost of giving Vedalken Engineer functionality that wouldn't actually function until three years later.
If we want to talk about the ever-shifting landscape of MtG doing weird things to old cards, few things will ever top Master of Arms.
Vedalken Engineer's mana could be used to pay mana-symbol costs in things like Elf Replica as soon as the engineer came out. I find the inability for Rosheen Meanderer's colorless mana to ever be spent on colorless mana (until they print a xC spell or ability) in costs a strange side effect of the splitting of 'colorless mana' and 'generic mana' with this new change.
This may already be the case with some other card, but I can't think of any.
I acknowledge that, but the point I am making here is that no card exists that allows Rosheen's C to be spent on C in costs, only on x or 'generic mana' 1,2,3. etc. I don't know of any other instance were this happens.
Rosheen Meanderer's C is unable to be spent on C on any card at the moment. Its a strange aesthetic interaction, a card adding a certain mana symbol to your pool that is unable to be spent on that mana symbol in costs.
Right, it still functions the exact same. I was just bringing up how it will create a strange design instance for mana-symbols that hasn't happened before.
Actually, there was, for a while, Vedalken Engineer. Until Sarcomite Myr, his mana being colored and being usable to cast artifacts were mutually exclusive functions.
I guess a small technicality is that Vedalken Engineer was templated in such a way due to the fact that there were already artifacts with colored mana symbols in their abilities by that time. But yeah, you're right about there not being colored artifacts yet.
Well, WotC could have made it produce colorless for artifact spells, and colored for artifact abilities, but that would have made it wordier. So they kept it simple, at the cost of giving Vedalken Engineer functionality that wouldn't actually function until three years later.
If we want to talk about the ever-shifting landscape of MtG doing weird things to old cards, few things will ever top Master of Arms.
That and it was specifically made as a plant to work with cards in the very next set that had Sunburst, such as Etched Oracle. No specific color requirements in its generic cost, but you really want colored mana to cast it.
I acknowledge that, but the point I am making here is that no card exists that allows Rosheen's C to be spent on C in costs, only on x or 'generic mana' 1,2,3. etc. I don't know of any other instance were this happens.
Lets do a quick gatherer search and see: Grand Architect: Only Eldrazi have the colorless requirement in their cost, so there's no chance the CC could be used to pay a cost of C Mishra's Workshop: Same deal as the Architect Myr Reservoir: I could see Myr gaining the C mechanic... if we ever return to their plane. As it stands, none do. Renowned Weaponsmith,Soldevi Machinist: Same as the workshop
I honestly don't see the issue though. The C symbol isn't connected to the Eldrazi, it just happens that the Eldrazi are the first race to require their mana be colorless. We'll likely see this on artifact-only mana for the rest of Magic, albeit rarely.
the splitting of 'colorless mana' and 'generic mana'
They're not being split. They have never been the same thing.
Their aesthetic representation has been split. Mechanically they have never been the same, but they have been represented on cards in the exact same manner up to this point, both using the 'generic mana' symbol whether being added to the pool or in costs. That was the point of this new mana symbol, to strengthen the aesthetic divide between colorless and generic.
Grand Architect: Only Eldrazi have the colorless requirement in their cost, so there's no chance the CC could be used to pay a cost of C Mishra's Workshop: Same deal as the Architect Myr Reservoir: I could see Myr gaining the C mechanic... if we ever return to their plane. As it stands, none do. Renowned Weaponsmith,Soldevi Machinist: Same as the workshop
Thanks, this is exactly what I mean. Any card adding C with the restriction only to be able to be spent on artifacts won't be able to be spent on C either. I like the concept that perhaps some mirran artifact race would use colorless only in costs, although I also doubt we will see a return to Mirrodin until after the seemingly inevitable phyrexian vs eldrazi battle.
I acknowledge that, but the point I am making here is that no card exists that allows Rosheen's C to be spent on C in costs, only on x or 'generic mana' 1,2,3. etc. I don't know of any other instance were this happens.
Lets do a quick gatherer search and see: Grand Architect: Only Eldrazi have the colorless requirement in their cost, so there's no chance the CC could be used to pay a cost of C Mishra's Workshop: Same deal as the Architect Myr Reservoir: I could see Myr gaining the C mechanic... if we ever return to their plane. As it stands, none do. Renowned Weaponsmith,Soldevi Machinist: Same as the workshop
I honestly don't see the issue though. The C symbol isn't connected to the Eldrazi, it just happens that the Eldrazi are the first race to require their mana be colorless. We'll likely see this on artifact-only mana for the rest of Magic, albeit rarely.
All of these cards have also been given the errata to change to . The mana itself is still colorless even with the restriction, so this makes sense from that perspective even if its a bit wonky that a Mishra's Workshop taps for that can't be used for the CC portion of the casting cost for Kozilek, the Great Distortion...
Why wouldn't it? If there's a spell costing {X}{C}{C}, for example, Rosheen would be able to pay for the colorless part of its cost.
Nothing changes for any pre-OGW card other than cosmetically.
{T}: Add {C}{C}{C}{C} to your mana pool. Spend this mana only on costs that contain {X}.
Plenty of cards have been printed that produce mana with restrictions:
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o:"spend this mana"&v=card&s=cname
EDIT: Can't get the link to work, but you should be able to copy and paste it in your browser.
Yes. "Add {4} to your mana pool" will not be possible under the future rules, just like you can't add hybrid mana or phyrexian mana to your mana pool. Just like those, {4} will be a symbol used only on costs.
I don't think that's relevant. Colorless mana producers will use {C} because that's the colorless mana symbol starting with OGW; {C}-costs also existing is parallel to that.
And, as Marek14 said, nothing prevents the creation of a spell costing {X}{C}{C} or similar.
Actually, there was, for a while, Vedalken Engineer. Until Sarcomite Myr, his mana being colored and being usable to cast artifacts were mutually exclusive functions.
I guess a small technicality is that Vedalken Engineer was templated in such a way due to the fact that there were already artifacts with colored mana symbols in their abilities by that time. But yeah, you're right about there not being colored artifacts yet.
Well, WotC could have made it produce colorless for artifact spells, and colored for artifact abilities, but that would have made it wordier. So they kept it simple, at the cost of giving Vedalken Engineer functionality that wouldn't actually function until three years later.
If we want to talk about the ever-shifting landscape of MtG doing weird things to old cards, few things will ever top Master of Arms.
This may already be the case with some other card, but I can't think of any.
There are very specific ones like Adarkar Unicorn and Altar of the Lost, as well as more general ones like Ancient Ziggurat and Food Chain.
Adarkar Unicorn's U can be spent on the U in illusionary forces among others. Altar of the Lost, Ancient Ziggurat and Food Chain's G can be used on the G on Moment's Peace/Grizzly Bears.
Rosheen Meanderer's C is unable to be spent on C on any card at the moment. Its a strange aesthetic interaction, a card adding a certain mana symbol to your pool that is unable to be spent on that mana symbol in costs.
That and it was specifically made as a plant to work with cards in the very next set that had Sunburst, such as Etched Oracle. No specific color requirements in its generic cost, but you really want colored mana to cast it.
Commander Decks
WDarien, King of KjeldorW - WYomiji, Who Bars the WayW - UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
BPhage the UntouchableB - BShirei,
Shadowborn Ap-Shizo's CaretakerB - RZirilan of the ClawR(W/U)Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper(W/U) - (2/G)Phelddagrif Politics(W/U) - (U/B)Mishra, Artificer Prodigy(U/R) -
They're not being split. They have never been the same thing.
Lets do a quick gatherer search and see:
Grand Architect: Only Eldrazi have the colorless requirement in their cost, so there's no chance the CC could be used to pay a cost of C
Mishra's Workshop: Same deal as the Architect
Myr Reservoir: I could see Myr gaining the C mechanic... if we ever return to their plane. As it stands, none do.
Renowned Weaponsmith,Soldevi Machinist: Same as the workshop
I honestly don't see the issue though. The C symbol isn't connected to the Eldrazi, it just happens that the Eldrazi are the first race to require their mana be colorless. We'll likely see this on artifact-only mana for the rest of Magic, albeit rarely.
Their aesthetic representation has been split. Mechanically they have never been the same, but they have been represented on cards in the exact same manner up to this point, both using the 'generic mana' symbol whether being added to the pool or in costs. That was the point of this new mana symbol, to strengthen the aesthetic divide between colorless and generic.
Thanks, this is exactly what I mean. Any card adding C with the restriction only to be able to be spent on artifacts won't be able to be spent on C either. I like the concept that perhaps some mirran artifact race would use colorless only in costs, although I also doubt we will see a return to Mirrodin until after the seemingly inevitable phyrexian vs eldrazi battle.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159412
All of these cards have also been given the errata to change