From what I've read, we've generally been assuming that Living Lore can exile the instant/sorcery card that reanimated it. But, after some thought, I have more doubts.
If I return Living Lore from the graveyard to the battlefield with an instant/sorcery card (such as Fated Return), can Living Lore exile that instant/sorcery as it enters the battlefield? (Because it's an "As it ETB" ability and not a "When it ETB" trigger, I'm starting to suspect that Living Lore can't.)
From what I've read, we've generally been assuming that Living Lore can exile the instant/sorcery card that reanimated it. But, after some thought, I have more doubts.
If I return Living Lore from the graveyard to the battlefield with an instant/sorcery card (such as Fated Return), can Living Lore exile that instant/sorcery as it enters the battlefield? (Because it's an "As it ETB" ability and not a "When it ETB" trigger, I'm starting to suspect that Living Lore can't.)
Living Lore cannot exile cards that put it onto the battlefield during their resolution, for the reasons you stated, "As..." signifies a replacement effect that modifies how it enters the battlefield, and as such does not use the stack and cannot be responded to.
However, you can use it to exile a reanimation spell,
then sac it and cast that spell on the lore you just sacced.
It doesn't accomplish much, but you can exile a bigger/better spell when it returns.
It may be written as a replacement effect to avoid infinite recursion
(though it only does something if you have a card like Warstorm Surge out).
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It may be written as a replacement effect to avoid infinite recursion
(though it only does something if you have a card like Warstorm Surge out).
It's written as an "as this etb" instead of a triggered ability because if it was triggered, it would die from being 0/0 efore the ability resolved.
Heh, fair enough!
Hosing overbearing shenanigans with Rise of the Dark Realms is just a fringe benefit, then.
EDIT: actually, that would never have worked anyway
(though it can if you have another reanimation spell in the GY,
and RotDR makes a pretty fantastic target for Lore anyway)
I should not try to answer rules questions when I'm jetlagged
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I've been playing Living Lore with Fated Return as though it could recur Living Lore and then be exiled by it, and I has some suspicions at first, but based on Travis Woo's starcitygames article, and more recently Conley Woods TCgPlayer article, I was under the impression that it could. This is a quote from the article: "Also worth noting is that Fated Return allows you to constantly get back the same Living Lore as an indestructible 7/7 creature, which is kind of nice."
And while the interaction isn't gamebreaking, an indestructible 7/7 with pseudo-vigilance that scrys two every time you attack is pretty sweet.
It's possible that Mr. Woods is incorrect, but I would like some further confirmation on whether or not this works, possibly with a quote from the Comprehensive Rulebook. Thank you.
Also, I have a quick question about Living Lores interaction with Gift Of Immortality. When I sacrifice living lore and it comes back into play, can it exile the same spell that was exiled with it originally? I'm worried hat the Gift trigger will be placed on the stack above the casted instant or sorcery, and that living lore will come back in play before the exiled card is in the graveyard. Thanks in advance.
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Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
I'll just answer the last question first. The Living Lore (LL) has a spell X exiled and is enchanted by Gift of Immortality (GoI). LL deals damage and get's sacrificed to play the spell X. Now you get two triggers. One lets you play the spell X and the other is GoI. As you control both triggers, you may order them any way you want. Putting GoI first, means that the spell X will be played and can be retargeted by Living Lore, doing it the other way, will return the LL back and only then play the spell.
As for the Fated Return, you cannot target the same spell that is bringing the LL back (with any currently standard legal cards at least), but Fated Return gives the returned creature Indestructible itself, so Conley's: "Also worth noting is that Fated Return allows you to constantly get back the same Living Lore as an indestructible 7/7 creature, which is kind of nice." is propably just a case of missing the idea for a while when writing that portion. This interaction does not work as he would hope.
The Living Lore (LL) has a spell X exiled and is enchanted by Gift of Immortality (GoI). LL deals damage and get's sacrificed to play the spell X. Now you get two triggers. One lets you play the spell X and the other is GoI. As you control both triggers, you may order them any way you want. Putting GoI first, means that the spell X will be played and can be retargeted by Living Lore, doing it the other way, will return the LL back and only then play the spell.
Sacrificing Living Lore (if you choose to do so) and casting the exiled card are both part of Living Lore's triggered ability. You don't sacrifice it and get another trigger. The card will always be cast before putting a death trigger such as Gift of Immortality's on the stack, so the trigger will resolve first and Living Lore would have to exile a different card as it returns to the battlefield.
(Also, Living Lore's replacement effect that exiles an instant or sorcery card doesn't target.)
I know this correction is kind of late, but that's what happens when someone asks a question about a card that's been released for months in the Rumored Card Rulings forum rather than the Rulings forum.
Lol, sorry. I did a search for Living Lore because I figured it would be better to ask my question in a thread that's already open rather than start another thread.
Anyway, thanks for your help everybody.
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Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
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If I return Living Lore from the graveyard to the battlefield with an instant/sorcery card (such as Fated Return), can Living Lore exile that instant/sorcery as it enters the battlefield? (Because it's an "As it ETB" ability and not a "When it ETB" trigger, I'm starting to suspect that Living Lore can't.)
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
then sac it and cast that spell on the lore you just sacced.
It doesn't accomplish much, but you can exile a bigger/better spell when it returns.
It may be written as a replacement effect to avoid infinite recursion
(though it only does something if you have a card like Warstorm Surge out).
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It's written as an "as this etb" instead of a triggered ability because if it was triggered, it would die from being 0/0 efore the ability resolved.
Heh, fair enough!
Hosing overbearing shenanigans with Rise of the Dark Realms is just a fringe benefit, then.
EDIT: actually, that would never have worked anyway
(though it can if you have another reanimation spell in the GY,
and RotDR makes a pretty fantastic target for Lore anyway)
I should not try to answer rules questions when I'm jetlagged
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
And here's a link to the article I'm quoting from: gic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12450
And while the interaction isn't gamebreaking, an indestructible 7/7 with pseudo-vigilance that scrys two every time you attack is pretty sweet.
It's possible that Mr. Woods is incorrect, but I would like some further confirmation on whether or not this works, possibly with a quote from the Comprehensive Rulebook. Thank you.
Also, I have a quick question about Living Lores interaction with Gift Of Immortality. When I sacrifice living lore and it comes back into play, can it exile the same spell that was exiled with it originally? I'm worried hat the Gift trigger will be placed on the stack above the casted instant or sorcery, and that living lore will come back in play before the exiled card is in the graveyard. Thanks in advance.
About Mindslaver rulings:
As for the Fated Return, you cannot target the same spell that is bringing the LL back (with any currently standard legal cards at least), but Fated Return gives the returned creature Indestructible itself, so Conley's: "Also worth noting is that Fated Return allows you to constantly get back the same Living Lore as an indestructible 7/7 creature, which is kind of nice." is propably just a case of missing the idea for a while when writing that portion. This interaction does not work as he would hope.
Set to default
Sacrificing Living Lore (if you choose to do so) and casting the exiled card are both part of Living Lore's triggered ability. You don't sacrifice it and get another trigger. The card will always be cast before putting a death trigger such as Gift of Immortality's on the stack, so the trigger will resolve first and Living Lore would have to exile a different card as it returns to the battlefield.
(Also, Living Lore's replacement effect that exiles an instant or sorcery card doesn't target.)
I know this correction is kind of late, but that's what happens when someone asks a question about a card that's been released for months in the Rumored Card Rulings forum rather than the Rulings forum.
Anyway, thanks for your help everybody.
About Mindslaver rulings: