So I'm curious to how multiple howl of the hoards in one turn would work out for different situations.
In this theoretical situation lets say its turn 4 you have a creature a pentad prism and a lotus bloom coming out of suspend. You attack with your creature, second main you sac your artifacts and cast two howl of the horde then a grapeshot,
How does this interaction go from here?
My assumption is: Howl goes off second howl is copied twice for three howls active, grapeshot is copied six times and each grapeshot has storm count 3 (for lotus bloom and 2 howl of the horde) or 4 damage, meaning 4 x 7 or 28 damage.
Is this an accurate portrayal of how this plays out or am I way off?
The first Howl of the Horde will make a two copies of the second one. Which means when you cast Grapeshot, it will have 3 'Copy Grapeshot twice' triggers (6 grapeshots), and one storm trigger (3 Grapeshots). So if you cast lotus bloom, attack, then later you cast howl, howl, grapeshot, you will end up with 10 grapeshots, for a total of 10 damage.
Storm only triggers when you cast grapeshot, howl of the horde does not cast grapeshot, only copy it.
The first Howl of the Horde will make a two copies of the second one. Which means when you cast Grapeshot, it will have 3 'Copy Grapeshot twice' triggers (6 grapeshots), and one storm trigger (3 Grapeshots). So if you cast lotus bloom, attack, then later you cast howl, howl, grapeshot, you will end up with 10 grapeshots, for a total of 10 damage.
Storm only triggers when you cast grapeshot, howl of the horde does not cast grapeshot, only copy it.
Ok got it, so 2 howls will indeed copy a third spell a total of 6 times, but grapeshot's storm is only triggered on casting so it would be fatal with just about any other burn spell but that
Two howls will NOT copy a spell six times. Howl reads. "Whenever you cast your next instant or sorcery."
So you howl once, and the next instant/sorcery is copied twice. You cast another howl, and that one gets copied. So you now have two howls, waiting for you to cast your next spell. Each of those two howls will copy the spell twice, for four copies.
So, you cast grapeshot. You get one grapeshot. Storm goes off, and since you cast three spells, two howls and the lotus, that makes a total of four grapeshots. In addition, those howls will copy it 4 times, making a total of 8 grapeshots, and 8 damage.
Basically what i feel really needs to get across is when you cast howl, then another howl, the first howl will copy the second howl. When you cast a spell after that, the original howl that was cast will not copy that spell, because it already copied a spell for the turn. Howl doesnt read something along the lines of "Any time you cast a spell this turn, copy it." It just says "the next."
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
The six is isn't because the first howl copies the third spell it is because it copies the second howl twice due to the raid trigger, therefore the second howl resolves 3x and next spell is 6x. Do you mean the raid doesn't trigger on the copies because I don't see a stipulation about casting for raid to trigger.
Two howls will NOT copy a spell six times. Howl reads. "Whenever you cast your next instant or sorcery."
So you howl once, and the next instant/sorcery is copied twice. You cast another howl, and that one gets copied. So you now have two howls, waiting for you to cast your next spell. Each of those two howls will copy the spell twice, for four copies.
After you Howl once, the next instant or sorcery spell is indeed copied twice. But the next sorcery spell you cast is the second Howl, so it gets copied twice, for a total of three Howl spells on the stack to resolve. It will create six delayed copy triggers, not four.
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How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Basically this card is fricken amazing if you happen to have a load of mana, a decent burn spell, multiples of howl, and maybe an opponent who isn't at his seat 10 minutes into the match.
I'm tired and math r hard, so its probably all wrong.
attack
cast (gain +2 clones)
If howl casts are X now, then the formula for it may be..
(2^(X+1))-2 = clones of next spell after
2^(3+1)-2 = 14 etc, on paper its like
2nd cast
+2 triggered clones from 1st howl cast
=2nd cast(+2 new) + 2x clones(+4) = 6 clone spell triggers for next
In this theoretical situation lets say its turn 4 you have a creature a pentad prism and a lotus bloom coming out of suspend. You attack with your creature, second main you sac your artifacts and cast two howl of the horde then a grapeshot,
How does this interaction go from here?
My assumption is: Howl goes off second howl is copied twice for three howls active, grapeshot is copied six times and each grapeshot has storm count 3 (for lotus bloom and 2 howl of the horde) or 4 damage, meaning 4 x 7 or 28 damage.
Is this an accurate portrayal of how this plays out or am I way off?
Storm only triggers when you cast grapeshot, howl of the horde does not cast grapeshot, only copy it.
Ok got it, so 2 howls will indeed copy a third spell a total of 6 times, but grapeshot's storm is only triggered on casting so it would be fatal with just about any other burn spell but that
Thanks for the info
So you howl once, and the next instant/sorcery is copied twice. You cast another howl, and that one gets copied. So you now have two howls, waiting for you to cast your next spell. Each of those two howls will copy the spell twice, for four copies.
So, you cast grapeshot. You get one grapeshot. Storm goes off, and since you cast three spells, two howls and the lotus, that makes a total of four grapeshots. In addition, those howls will copy it 4 times, making a total of 8 grapeshots, and 8 damage.
Basically what i feel really needs to get across is when you cast howl, then another howl, the first howl will copy the second howl. When you cast a spell after that, the original howl that was cast will not copy that spell, because it already copied a spell for the turn. Howl doesnt read something along the lines of "Any time you cast a spell this turn, copy it." It just says "the next."
After you Howl once, the next instant or sorcery spell is indeed copied twice. But the next sorcery spell you cast is the second Howl, so it gets copied twice, for a total of three Howl spells on the stack to resolve. It will create six delayed copy triggers, not four.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2014/10/howl-of-the-hordes-raid-ability/
Judge's corner ^
ASSUMING YOUVE ATTACKED
double casting 2 howls gives you 6 copies
The raid checks to see if you attacked, not for cast/clone spell. The copies raid.
Basically this card is fricken amazing if you happen to have a load of mana, a decent burn spell, multiples of howl, and maybe an opponent who isn't at his seat 10 minutes into the match.
I'm tired and math r hard, so its probably all wrong.
attack
cast (gain +2 clones)
If howl casts are X now, then the formula for it may be..
(2^(X+1))-2 = clones of next spell after
2^(3+1)-2 = 14 etc, on paper its like
2nd cast
+2 triggered clones from 1st howl cast
=2nd cast(+2 new) + 2x clones(+4) = 6 clone spell triggers for next
3rd cast
+6 clones
=3rd cast (+2) + 6x clones(+12) = 14 clones
4th cast
+14 clones
=4th cast (+2) + 14 clones(+28) = 30 clones
5th cast
+30 clones
=5th cast(+2) + 30 clones(+60) = 62 clones, then 126, 254 and all of our other favorite computer numbers minus 2.
Enjoy!