Elite Arcanist + Strionic Resonator

  • #1
    For reference:
    -Strionic Resonator
    -Elite Arcanist

    Lets say I have the Strionic Resonator in play, then I cast Elite Arcanist and putting its ETB ability in the stack. I activated the Resonator to copy the ETB effect.

    My questions:
    1. Do I get to remove two Instant cards?
    2. Which of the cards do I get to play if I activated the Arcanist's ability?
    Thor is here! Grin
  • #2
    EDIT: After having thought about it, I'm changing my mind on some things.

    1. Yes. There end up being two instances of the ability on the stack, and when each of them resolves you may exile an Instant card from your hand. This isn't such a great idea because:

    2. You can only make copies of the card exiled with the original instance of the ability. The way Elite Arcanist is written, his two abilities are linked (like on Imprint cards, etc.). That means the second ability is only ever referring to the first ability, and not anything else. You can make copies of either card. As an example of something similar, consider copying Myr Welder's activated ability with Rings of Brighthearth. The rules about linked abilities would cause Imprint to let him read from both cards. Elite Arcanist is covered by the following rules about linked abilities:

    Quote from CR 607.1 »
    An object may have two abilities printed on it such that one of them causes actions to be taken or objects or players to be affected and the other one directly refers to those actions, objects, or players. If so, these two abilities are linked: the second refers only to actions that were taken or objects or players that were affected by the first, and not by any other ability.

    Quote from CR 607.2a »
    If an object has an activated or triggered ability printed on it that instructs a player to exile one or more cards and an ability printed on it that refers either to “the exiled cards” or to cards “exiled with [this object],” these abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to cards in the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability.
    Last edited by Rhadamanthus: 7/1/2013 4:10:23 PM
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  • #3
    Doesn't that contradict the speculation about Strionic Resonator (doubling triggered abilities) and Oblivion Ring in the other thread on this page? It seems like more people there are saying that if you copy the Ring's ETB effect, all the exiled cards will come back due to the LTB effect. Why wouldn't the copied ability also be linked?
  • #4
    It does contradict that other thread, but that's because I don't agree with the interpretation of 706.10b being used there. This is an interaction that's desperately in need of an [O]fficial clarification when the full M14 Rules Update is published.
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  • #5
    I take it back. I did some editing to my earlier post based on some thoughts that popped into my head.
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  • #6
    OP, the interaction is even better than you thought. It's called out specifically in the M14 FAQ:

    Quote from M14 FAQ »
    If a triggered ability is linked to a second ability, copies of that triggered ability are also linked to that second ability. If the second ability refers to "the exiled card," it refers to all cards exiled by the triggered ability and the copy. For example, if Exclusion Ritual's enters-the-battlefield ability is copied and two nonland permanents are exiled, players can't cast spells with the same name as either exiled card.

    In some cases involving linked abilities, an ability requires information about "the exiled card." When this happens, the ability gets multiple answers. If these answers are being used to determine the value of a variable, the sum is used. For example, if Elite Arcanist's enters-the-battlefield ability is copied, two cards are exiled. The value of X in the activation cost of Elite Arcanist's other ability is the sum of the two cards' converted mana costs. As the ability resolves, you create copies of both cards and can cast none, one, or both of the copies in any order.
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  • #7
    Quote from Rhadamanthus
    OP, the interaction is even better than you thought. It's called out specifically in the M14 FAQ:


    Wow, so you are in fact allowed to have 2 exiled instants to choose from which one you want to copy?
    Last edited by DudeFromDenmark: 7/10/2013 7:15:40 PM
  • #8
    Quote from DudeFromDenmark
    Wow, so you are in fact allowed to have 2 exiled instants to choose from which one you want to copy?


    No, you're allowed to have 2 instants, and cast both for the cost of one.
    DCI Level 2 Judge
  • #9
    Quote from KPDaly16
    No, you're allowed to have 2 instants, and cast both for the cost of one.

    No, not really.

    The value of X in the activation cost of Elite Arcanist's other ability is the sum of the two cards' converted mana costs.

    So that means you always have to pay the sum of the two exiled cards' cost, and then you get to cast both, but you dont have to. So if you exile turn//burn and far//away, you're probably out of luck unless you manage to get 10 mana. You can not pay 5 and choose one, or pay 5 and choose both. As I interpret it from that M14 FAQ, you can only use it if you pay it all.

    However, I can imagine it would be pretty awesome with something like Azorius Charm and Cancel, so you can counter anything with a cantrip, or Doom Blade and Tragic Slip. Because you get to choose the order, tragic slip will always hit its morbid there.

    Too bad you set yourself up for a 3 for 1 (+ a useless resonator activation)...
    Last edited by Trivmvirate: 7/11/2013 5:49:23 AM
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  • #10
    Quote from Profani
    No, not really.

    The value of X in the activation cost of Elite Arcanist's other ability is the sum of the two cards' converted mana costs.

    So that means you always have to pay the sum of the two exiled cards' cost, and then you get to cast both, but you dont have to. So if you exile turn//burn and far//away, you're probably out of luck unless you manage to get 10 mana. You can not pay 5 and choose one, or pay 5 and choose both. As I interpret it from that M14 FAQ, you can only use it if you pay it all.

    However, I can imagine it would be pretty awesome with something like Azorius Charm and Cancel, so you can counter anything with a cantrip, or Doom Blade and Tragic Slip. Because you get to choose the order, tragic slip will always hit its morbid there.

    Too bad you set yourself up for a 3 for 1 (+ a useless resonator activation)...


    I see. This actually seems like a fun thing to do if you find 2 instants that dosnt cost that much and does something good together
  • #11
    Thats awesome, as long as I have the mana for it. Now imagine what it does to Isochron Scepter's activated ability! Pay 2, play both!
    Thor is here! Grin
  • #12
    I have to say Heroes Reunion + Fog exiled. 3 Mana gain 7 no damage seems fun. =p
  • #13
    Infinite silence or infinite fog are pretty sweet!
  • #14
    infinite discard and bounce for 1 each, staying in blue. piracy charm can discard and kill tokens. vapor snag makes them lose 1 life every time they play a creature. or maybe swan song and give yourself tokens.
    still a lot of cards for flimsy lock.
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