was thinking similar question , seems like you exile it after play, but I don't understand quite how the effect works, is it just a copy of any card after dealing combat damage or what?
As the last part of the spell's effect while it's resolving, Cipher takes effect. You exile the card (and it won't end up in the graveyard like spells usually do), and choose one of your creatures to encode it to. As long as that card is encoded to the creature, you'll get to cast a copy of it whenever the creature deals combat damage to a player.
Can't you exile a cipher card from the graveyard? It says "exile card", and cards are cards as well in the graveyard, are they not?
Example card first....
Whispering Madness 2UB
Sorcery
Each player discards their hand and draws cards equal to the greatest number discarded this way.
Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of this card without paying its mana cost.)
Your question is a little unclear do you mean.... Can you exile any cipher card in your graveyard when you play a cipher card?
If thats your question then..... Cipher says "exile THIS SPELL" so its pertaining to the card being cast not a cipher card in your graveyard.
Whispering Madness 2UB
Sorcery
Each player discards their hand and draws cards equal to the greatest number discarded this way.
Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of this card without paying its mana cost.)
Your question is a little unclear do you mean.... Can you exile any cipher card in your graveyard when you play a cipher card?
If thats your question then..... Cipher says "exile THIS SPELL" so its pertaining to the card being cast not a cipher card in your graveyard.
It says exile this spell "card". When the spell is on the stack its not a card, but when it goes to the graveyard after resolving (or even not being resolved), it is a card again (a card in the graveyard).
I think it could be clearer if it says something like "exile this spell card instead of putting it in the graveyard, if it is encoded on a creature".
Another question, is it the case that an encoded creature with double-strike can perform the associated action twice (assuming it hits the player both times) in succession? And if there is another double strike creature attacking, then the first execution of the encoded creature's action can encode the second creature, which can then execute the action on its second strike phase? (for a total of 3 activations of the encoded ability).
You're right that a double strike creature would get two copies, but the copies don't get encoded on anything. Notice the reminder text on Cipher says "you may exile this spell card...". The copy of the spell isn't a card, and it can't be encoded on anything.
To your earlier comment about the spell not being a card on the stack: A card is always a card. Just because effects don't usually refer to them as such when they're on the stack or the battlefield doesn't mean they stop being cards.
The Cipher trigger creates a copy of the exiled card. This copy is created in the Exile zone because that is where the original is. You then get permission to cast the copy of the card.
If you decide not to, the copy of the card ceases to exist.
Sorry guys, I have a very silly question about cipher. Can the copies created by cipher be countered? I'm a little confused with the words "cast a copy".
Yes. Copies of spells go on the stack just like regular spells and can be countered (unless the copy has the "can't be countered" ability). Casting a copy works exactly like casting a regular spell and will trigger things that look for casting or be prevented from being cast.
No. Cipher isn't an activated ability of the card. It's part of the effect of the resolving spell.
Notice how the reminder text starts with "Then you may exile this spell card..." That means after you're done doing everything else written above it, you can decide whether to apply Cipher and encode the card. If the spell doesn't resolve (because it got countered, for example), then you never even get to that part of the spell's effect.
So in that case, say I resolve hands of binding first, then encode it. My opponent has a presence of two creatures, this means that the resolved spell effects one creature so far. Then I can encode it on my flier and upon successfully dealing damage, a second copy of the same spell would resolve on the same turn, ending in two opposing tapped creatures?
When the creature with the encoded cypher card dies, the card with cypher remains exiled?
Thanks in advance!!!:)
That's right. Cipher doesn't say to move it anywhere else if something happens to the creature, so the card stays in exile. It won't be encoded to anything.
So in that case, say I resolve hands of binding first, then encode it. My opponent has a presence of two creatures, this means that the resolved spell effects one creature so far. Then I can encode it on my flier and upon successfully dealing damage, a second copy of the same spell would resolve on the same turn, ending in two opposing tapped creatures?
That's right. If you can hit with the creature you encode to in the same turn you cast the Cipher spell, you'll end up getting 2 casts in a single turn. That's part of why Cipher is good.
so what would happen if they realese an x cost cypher card would all the copies have perminent # of the original on the x cast like reverberate does?
No; the copies cast through Cipher are "fresh" copies of the card, not copies of the original spell. They do not preserve any choices made when casting the original spell.
The rules require that if you cast a card with X in its mana cost without paying its mana cost (unless that spell has an additional cost which also includes X) then you must choose a value of 0 for X. This would apply to any copies of "X" spells cast through Cipher: X would have to be 0.
For this reason it is highly unlikely that there will be any "X" spells printed with Cipher.
I almost got excited about cipher when I realized that the copy of the spell also has cipher. So when a creature triggers the encoded spell, the copy of the spell also has cipher, which can encode on the same or different creature.
So why doesn't this work? Because part of the resolution of the spell is exiling the spell. Because the copy is not a real card, it goes away when it gets exiled. When the new encoding tries to trigger, it tries to copy a spell which isn't there.
Now I have a question. since cipher effect is a encoded on a creature can the same creature be encoded with multiple ciphers effects, and if so can it be off the same effect from the same card giving a double effect.
Example: I have invisible stalker(1/1 hexproof, unblockable) out and i cast paranoid delusions( target player mills three, cipher). I encoded invisible stalker and the next turn cast another paranoid delusions. Can I place a second cipher on invisible stalker and will the effect double for being encoded twice?
A creature can be encoded with multiple spells. When that creature deals combat damage to a player you may cast a copy of each encoded spell without paying its mana cost. If you have two copies of Paranoid Delusions encoded on an Invisible Stalker then you may cast two copies of Paranoid Delusions when the Stalker deals combat damage to a player.
EDIT: Haha, someone posted an explanation while I was typing this. Disregard my question.
Thanks to Rivenor for the art.
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
A copy of it meaning you need to have the same spell card on your hand or a copy of it like Reverberate does? I hope you guys get my question :\
Building on a budget tips:
yakusoku's Budget Guide to Standard
Simon's Budget Guide to Playing on a Budget
10$ Deck Ideas:
Shinbatsu's Budget Deck Challenge
GB Graveyard Shift BG
UBR It's Cloning Time! RBU
Modern:
B Mono Black Infect B
WG Splicers GW
UG Allies GU
Example card first....
Whispering Madness 2UB
Sorcery
Each player discards their hand and draws cards equal to the greatest number discarded this way.
Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of this card without paying its mana cost.)
Your question is a little unclear do you mean.... Can you exile any cipher card in your graveyard when you play a cipher card?
If thats your question then..... Cipher says "exile THIS SPELL" so its pertaining to the card being cast not a cipher card in your graveyard.
H/W List http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=112656
It says exile this spell "card". When the spell is on the stack its not a card, but when it goes to the graveyard after resolving (or even not being resolved), it is a card again (a card in the graveyard).
I think it could be clearer if it says something like "exile this spell card instead of putting it in the graveyard, if it is encoded on a creature".
To your earlier comment about the spell not being a card on the stack: A card is always a card. Just because effects don't usually refer to them as such when they're on the stack or the battlefield doesn't mean they stop being cards.
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
Alright! Thanks mate
Building on a budget tips:
yakusoku's Budget Guide to Standard
Simon's Budget Guide to Playing on a Budget
10$ Deck Ideas:
Shinbatsu's Budget Deck Challenge
GB Graveyard Shift BG
UBR It's Cloning Time! RBU
Modern:
B Mono Black Infect B
WG Splicers GW
UG Allies GU
Thanks in advance.
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
Scry Rollover Popups for Google Chrome
The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Notice how the reminder text starts with "Then you may exile this spell card..." That means after you're done doing everything else written above it, you can decide whether to apply Cipher and encode the card. If the spell doesn't resolve (because it got countered, for example), then you never even get to that part of the spell's effect.
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
When the creature with the encoded cypher card dies, the card with cypher remains exiled?
Thanks in advance!!!:)
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
That's right. Cipher doesn't say to move it anywhere else if something happens to the creature, so the card stays in exile. It won't be encoded to anything.
That's right. If you can hit with the creature you encode to in the same turn you cast the Cipher spell, you'll end up getting 2 casts in a single turn. That's part of why Cipher is good.
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
The rules require that if you cast a card with X in its mana cost without paying its mana cost (unless that spell has an additional cost which also includes X) then you must choose a value of 0 for X. This would apply to any copies of "X" spells cast through Cipher: X would have to be 0.
For this reason it is highly unlikely that there will be any "X" spells printed with Cipher.
So why doesn't this work? Because part of the resolution of the spell is exiling the spell. Because the copy is not a real card, it goes away when it gets exiled. When the new encoding tries to trigger, it tries to copy a spell which isn't there.
*
(Dang)
Example: I have invisible stalker(1/1 hexproof, unblockable) out and i cast paranoid delusions( target player mills three, cipher). I encoded invisible stalker and the next turn cast another paranoid delusions. Can I place a second cipher on invisible stalker and will the effect double for being encoded twice?
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
Scry Rollover Popups for Google Chrome
The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.