Brought to you by "multiple people saying the same thing and needing a nudge in the right direction". Since we know how Planeswalker the card type works, The Basics became "The Rest".
0) Rules Review
Creatures die in the following ways:
- an effect destroys or exiles that creature (e.g. Terminate)
- it is dealt lethal damage (damage >= its current toughness) or any deathtouch damage
- an effect causes the creature to be sacrificed (e.g. Diabolic Edict)
- the creature has 0 or less toughness (e.g. Sickening Shoal)
Planeswalkers dump you in the following ways:
- they have no loyalty counters (typically caused by taking damage or their minus abilities)
- an effect destroys or exiles that planeswalker (e.g. Vindicate)
- an effect causes the planeswalker to be sacrificed (e.g. World Queller)
A Planeswalker that is also a creature, therefore, dies because of all of the above ways. It's the union of the sets, not the intersection!
1) What The Ultimate Means
- First and foremost, this card becomes a whiteplaneswalker creature and has subtypes Human Soldier Gideon. Read the bolded words until it sinks in. Just because he becomes a creature does not mean the card changes color or loses it. Compare to manlands which are normally colorless but become colored, e.g. Lavaclaw Reaches becomes black and red.
- Secondly: you can't has blocks with your 6/6 Gideon because he stops being a creature at the end of that turn.
- Anything that would affect a Human, a Soldier, a creature, a white permanent, a white creature, and so on, will affect him. If it can target a creature, it can target him. If it can target a white permanent, it can target him. If it's Saltblast, you're still looking elsewhere and it better not be at my lands or else. So yes, Honor of the Pure, Captain of the Watch etc. all work (immediately) after this ability resolves.
- You cannot attack with Gideon Jura the turn he enters the battlefield under your control and resolves his [0] ability, unless he somehow gains haste (such as Mass Hysteria). You did not control him since your turn began; he does technically have summoning sickness even though he did not enter the battlefield as a creature.
- Once the ability resolves, cards such as Doom Blade, Day of Judgment and the like can destroy him directly (yes, you can get a basic land from Path to Exile too). He is a creature during that turn and therefore a legal target for such effects. Spells such as Chain Reaction will include him in the count for how high the damage goes, and he will have (usually prevented) damage assigned from Inferno and so on.
- If Gideon Jura is blocked by a creature while he is attacking, typically damage will be prevented to him and he will assign combat damage as normal, being a 6/6 creature. He won't lose loyalty counters if damage is prevented or redirected away from him such as via Harm's Way.
- If Gideon Jura becomes a creature and for some reason loses all of his loyalty counters (Vampire Hexmage), he stillgoes to the graveyard. Because he's still a planeswalker, per the ability's text, he is still subject to the state-based action that causes loyalty-counterless planeswalkers to ditch you.
- If some effect (Unstable Footing, Everlasting Torment) allows for you to damage him while he's a creature, he will both a) lose that many loyalty counters (potentially losing all of them); b) is subject to being destroyed for having lethal damage. Typically, this is 6+ damage assigned. If he should have 7+ loyalty counters and takes 6 damage, he loses the 6 counters (keeps 1), and is destroyed for lethal damage.
- If you equip him or enchant him, the equipment/Aura will generally fall off when he reverts to being a planeswalker again. The aura will presumably go to the graveyard for no longer enchanting its relevant card type. (Confiscate will stay where it is, Persuasion will go away.)
- If an effect (such as Ajani Goldmane or Soul's Might) gives him +1/+1 counters, he will have both the +1/+1 counters and the loyalty counters. When Gideon Jura stops being a creature, he retains both types of counters; they do not cancel out each other (so far, that's only +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters).
- Wither damage that isn't prevented (Everlasting Torment) will place -1/-1 counters on him. As previously mentioned, they will remain present if you make him a creature again (or give him +1/+1 counters to effectively get rid of the -1/-1 type). Like any creature, he can theoretically go to the graveyard for having 0 or less toughness.
- If a card such as Clonecopies him while he's a creature, it becomes a copy of Planeswalker - Gideon (as if you had paid for the 3WW version), not the 6/6 animated creature version; you get a copy of the card as printed, not what the copied card currently is*. They will both go to the graveyard (immediately; no you can't use any abilities or respond to this) because of two Planeswalkers being on the battlefield with the same subtype at the same time. So in short: Clone or Sakashima the Imposter or one of any bajillion copy effects will end up with this card going poof. I will note that Cytoshape is an instant speed way to remove him (and the targetted creature) without using destroy/exile/sacrifice effects though!
2) What the Group Hug (+2) ability means
- You can't use this ability if it can't target anyone, which means he doesn't get +2 loyalty counters. (This is possible in a duel and your opponent names this card with Runed Halo or is controlling True Believer, Ivory Mask, Spirit of the Hearth, etc.)
- This ability basically means that on the targetted opponent's next turn's combat step, every creature he/she has must attack the planeswalker that turn if able. That's it. It doesn't change combat in any other way. Those creatures controlled by that opponent that can't avoid attacking during combat (they don't have T abilities or don't have defender for instance) must be declared as an attacker, and they must attack the taunting Gideon Jura.
- Any and all creatures you control can block as usual. This is no different than usual rules where a creature normally attacks a planeswalker. The only thing this ability does is require that creatures controlled by the targetted opponent attack not-you that turn if able. That doesn't mean your creatures suddenly turn catatonic and can't get in the way of the assault. The only one who has to do something different is your opponent. You can do whatever you want (that's legal) with what you want, including (but not limited to!) kill off the weenie rush with your fatties.
- All creatures that can attack Gideon Jura upon resolution of his +2 ability do so on that opponent's turn. The only reason they would not be able to is if an effect or ability (defender, Moat, summoning sickness, etc.) stops it from happening. Those creatures must be declared with Gideon Jura as the recipient of the pain. He's a masochist.
- If any of the creatures forced to attack him have Annihilator, and he must be sacrificed to it (because you have no other permanents to sacrifice, for example), unblocked creatures attacking him will not assign combat damage. Trample damage will not be assigned to you, either. Creatures either attack you, or one of your planeswalker(s). Trample only works against blocking creatures as far as the overflow goes. Just as a creature with trample dealing dealing excess damage to a player does not trample to another player, the same is true for a creature and "trampling through" a planeswalker to its controller; it doesn't happen (except in a very corner case we don't need to get into as it's outside the scope of this thread).
- If for some reason Gideon Jura leaves play after using this ability, creatures will not be forced to attack him, even if he comes back before that required attack step occurs (for example, the effect of Oblivion Ring, or his being replayed after bouncing him). They were required to attack the one that left play, not the current one as it is a new object. In other words, they're "not able" to attack the one that "taunted" them, so they don't have to obey that requirement.
3) Experiment Kraj
- I forget which rules update it was (M10 or Zendikar?), but loyalty abilities were given their own section of the rules, in similar vein to mana abilities. In short, the abilities typically seen on just a planeswalker (+2, -9, etc.) are intrinsically sorcery speed and "one of these abilities only from this particular permanent". In short, they made it a quality of the ability rather than the card type, just like a quality of mana abilities is that they do not use the stack. Even more in short: Experiment Kraj does not go infinite.
- Per KPDaly16: If Experiment Kraj is able to use his +2 ability, those creatures can't attack Experiment Kraj as it is neither a player nor planeswalker. The restriction is ignored and they gambole off freely into the wild red space of the combat part of the mat at Pro Tours.
4) Miscellaneous
- In multiplayer, if for some reason multiple players were able to use his +2 ability to target the same player via different copies of the card (for instance, player 1 bounces another player's and plays his/her own targetting player 4, repeat for player 2 and 3), then that player will effectively be required to attack the most recent +2 ability (given that it's the only Gideon Jura they can attack; they wouldn't get confused because the others aren't Jedi Mind-Tricking anymore). In the example, this would be player 3's.
- In Two-Headed Giant, only the targetted player on the opposing team has to obey the +2 ability. The other player(s)'s creatures on the team do not have to attack the planeswalker if able. He's not THAT good at drawing fire.
* I'm not discussing multiple copy-capable creatures here, since generally you will not be able to get multiple creatures able to copy an animated planeswalker at the same time as they enter the battlefield.
I answered the Annihilator related question (it's similar to a player being killed before combat damage is assigned but after attackers declared; the damage doesn't magically go elsewhere). I'm not 100% sure on the situation where he leaves play, whether the restriction effectively goes away because it can't be obeyed (e.g. Alluring Siren against a player's Jackal Familiar with multiple creatures out) or if those creatures basically can't attack that turn (because what they're supposed to attack isn't there).
I think we'll need the FAQ for what happens if Experiment Kraj sticks a +1/+1 counter on Gideon and uses the +2 ability. I suspect that those creatures simply can't attack, because Experiment Kraj is not a Planeswalker or a player.
4) Notes
- Usual blurb about forgetting stuff here. Please don't make me want to hurt you by talking about Mycosinth Lattice + March of the Machines interactions here. I'm not ready for an aneurysm (wouldn't he be a 5/5 then?).
If Mycosynth Lattice and March of the Machines are in play, Gideon will be a 5/5 colorless Artifact Creature Planeswalker. If you activate his {0} ability, he will be a 6/6 colorless Human Soldier Artifact Creature Planeswalker until end of turn, and then revert to being a 5/5 colorless Artifact Creature Planeswalker. Not too complicated.
By the way, try saying "6/6 colorless Human Soldier Artifact Creature Planeswalker" five times fast.
Ok this guy is a white 6/6 solider? So you can use honor of the pure to make him a 7/7? If this is case add 10$ to the outrageously 40-50 dollars he will already fetch!!
If there are no legal targets for +2 ability he will still get the 2 loyalty counters right?
Thanks for this Solmancer, I was wondering if it was going to get made.
Now here's my own question. It's more for clarification but I'd like to make sure I'm right about this. Friend asked me if Gideon can be "saved" by your own creatures when using his +2. That may sound confusing, so let me give this scenario as an example.
You have a 5/5 on the field with Gideon. The opponent has a 2/2. You use Gideon's +2 ability and they swing with the 2/2. You can block with the 5/5, correct?
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Ok this guy is a white 6/6 solider? So you can use honor of the pure to make him a 7/7? If this is case add 10$ to the outrageously 40-50 dollars he will already fetch!!
If there are no legal targets for +2 ability he will still get the 2 loyalty counters right?
There are never any legal targets his for +2 ability, because it doesn't target anything.
There are never any legal targets his for +2 ability, because it doesn't target anything.
He targets an opponent with the +2. I don't think I need to mention that bit about "can't use this" because that should be in everyone's head as a basic premise to playing the game at this point (your only opponent hiding behind True Believer or Runed Halo I mean). Oh heck with it, I'll spell it out... >_> <_<
I did a little reorganization, namely "+2 goes pedantic", also answering Seth's friend's question. I tried to be humorous too...
He targets an opponent with the +2. I don't think I need to mention that bit about "can't use this" because that should be in everyone's head as a basic premise to playing the game at this point (your only opponent hiding behind True Believer or Runed Halo I mean). Oh heck with it, I'll spell it out... >_> <_<
I did a little reorganization, namely "+2 goes pedantic", also answering Seth's friend's question. I tried to be humorous too...
I definitely completely overlooked the word "target" blatantly spelled out in the ability. Mah bad.
The ability doesn't say anything about your creatures being able to or not being able to block. So yes, you can still block as normal.
Added section 4 for "unanswered rulings". If you're a lovable person that can answer them, and have the credentials to do so, feel free. I can understand if it's a "wait for the Official FAQ" response, but I figured I'd get these out in the open...
@Shahrazad the subgame creator: Damage to him is normally prevented, so neither? EDIT - I put that particular case in though.
4) Open Issues
- What happens if Experiment Kraj uses his +2 ability?
- What happens in multiplayer? For example, player 1 uses the +2 ability and targets player 4. Somehow, players 2 and 3 play their own copies (bouncing the others' perhaps?) and use the +2 ability also targetting player 4. What happens when it's player 4's next turn? Do they attack player 3's Gideon? Can they attack at all because they're supposed to attack multiple cards at the same time, which may or may not be present on the battlefield?
First off, since it seems to be a common misconception, can you please add that HE STOPS BEING A CREATURE AT END OF TURN? People are talking about him blocking as a creature like it's possible.
Experiment Kraj: Using its +2 would activate an ability that says "all creatures attack Experiment Kraj if able." Creatures are not able to attack other creatures by Magic rules, so this would not affect the creatures at all and they would be able to attack normally (unless you somehow made Kraj a Planeswalker of course).
Multiplayer: If another player got Gideon out, it would mean that Player 1 no longer had one, so the first attack restriction would no longer be there (as you can't attack something that's not there).
If some sort of Mirror Gallery for PW's was printed, my best guess would be that the creatures would have to fulfill as many attacking requirements as possible, so the controller of the creatures would choose which Gideon to attack so long as he was attacking one of them.
You play a flash creature and block him. Gideon takes two damage.
My question: Does Gideon also lose two loyalty counters?
No, because you prevent all damage dealt to him.
Private Mod Note
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DCI Level 2 Judge My Twitter Currently Playing -
Legacy:
Merfolk
:symu::symr: Painter :symr::symu:
EDH:
:symu::symb::symr: Sedris, the Traitor King :symr::symb::symu:
You play a flash creature and block him. Gideon takes two damage.
My question: Does Gideon also lose two loyalty counters?
Nope, it does say to prevent all damage to him this turn, even on the planeswalker, so you DON'TLOSE LOYALTY COUNTERS since the damage dealt to him as a creature and a plansswalker is prevented. Like preventing damage to yourself, you don't lose life since you prevented it, same goes for PW, if the damage is prevented he doesn't lose any Loyalty counters.
#1 - What's the dumbest idea you ever had?
#2 - 15/15 for 15?
#1 - Make it dumber
#2 - Give it protection from removal and counter?
#1 - DUMBER!
#2 - Add Timewalk?
#1 - DAMN IT MAN, I SAID DUMB!! DUMB !!!
#2 - It destroys everything when it attacks.... And wait, I have a friend who plays mill decks... I want to beat him too.
#1 - Excellent! Recess is over, go back and learn sex-ed with the other 6th graders.
DCI Level 2 Judge My Twitter Currently Playing -
Legacy:
Merfolk
:symu::symr: Painter :symr::symu:
EDH:
:symu::symb::symr: Sedris, the Traitor King :symr::symb::symu:
When you use his [0] ability, he is a white Soldier creature. So Pikemaster will give him First Strike, Captain will give him +1/+1 and Vigilance and HotP will give him +1/+1.
I added the "can't has blocks" just for you KP. I only used big black letters though since I get in trouble if I think about using big red ones, much as I'd like to sneak all this into 'seds post in the RM.
Anyone want to wager on the loyalty ability rules change coming about because of this card being finalized last year?
I added the "can't has blocks" just for you KP. I only used big black letters though since I get in trouble if I think about using big red ones, much as I'd like to sneak all this into 'seds post in the RM.
Anyone want to wager on the loyalty ability rules change coming about because of this card being finalized last year?
Don't worry, I've got you covered with the big red letters.
And I'm pretty sure this is EXACTLY why they changed the rule. Not like Kraj combos were any less convoluted than plenty of everyday infinite combos.
Those creatures controlled by that opponent that can't avoid combat (no T activated abilities or what have you) must be declared as an attacker if able, and they must attack Gideon Jura.
I don't believe that bolded part is correct. The "attacks if able" requirement only applies during the declare attackers step. Nothing prevents a player from taking actions before that to put creatures in a position that leaves them unable to attack.
EDIT: Whoops. Sorry; I misread your statement. What you have is correct, but it can easily be misread as though you said the creatures aren't allowed to use tap abilities.
0) Rules Review
Creatures die in the following ways:
- an effect destroys or exiles that creature (e.g. Terminate)
- it is dealt lethal damage (damage >= its current toughness) or any deathtouch damage
- an effect causes the creature to be sacrificed (e.g. Diabolic Edict)
- the creature has 0 or less toughness (e.g. Sickening Shoal)
Planeswalkers dump you in the following ways:
- they have no loyalty counters (typically caused by taking damage or their minus abilities)
- an effect destroys or exiles that planeswalker (e.g. Vindicate)
- an effect causes the planeswalker to be sacrificed (e.g. World Queller)
A Planeswalker that is also a creature, therefore, dies because of all of the above ways. It's the union of the sets, not the intersection!
1) What The Ultimate Means
- First and foremost, this card becomes a white planeswalker creature and has subtypes Human Soldier Gideon. Read the bolded words until it sinks in. Just because he becomes a creature does not mean the card changes color or loses it. Compare to manlands which are normally colorless but become colored, e.g. Lavaclaw Reaches becomes black and red.
- Secondly: you can't has blocks with your 6/6 Gideon because he stops being a creature at the end of that turn.
- Anything that would affect a Human, a Soldier, a creature, a white permanent, a white creature, and so on, will affect him. If it can target a creature, it can target him. If it can target a white permanent, it can target him. If it's Saltblast, you're still looking elsewhere and it better not be at my lands or else. So yes, Honor of the Pure, Captain of the Watch etc. all work (immediately) after this ability resolves.
- You cannot attack with Gideon Jura the turn he enters the battlefield under your control and resolves his [0] ability, unless he somehow gains haste (such as Mass Hysteria). You did not control him since your turn began; he does technically have summoning sickness even though he did not enter the battlefield as a creature.
- Once the ability resolves, cards such as Doom Blade, Day of Judgment and the like can destroy him directly (yes, you can get a basic land from Path to Exile too). He is a creature during that turn and therefore a legal target for such effects. Spells such as Chain Reaction will include him in the count for how high the damage goes, and he will have (usually prevented) damage assigned from Inferno and so on.
- If Gideon Jura is blocked by a creature while he is attacking, typically damage will be prevented to him and he will assign combat damage as normal, being a 6/6 creature. He won't lose loyalty counters if damage is prevented or redirected away from him such as via Harm's Way.
- If Gideon Jura becomes a creature and for some reason loses all of his loyalty counters (Vampire Hexmage), he still goes to the graveyard. Because he's still a planeswalker, per the ability's text, he is still subject to the state-based action that causes loyalty-counterless planeswalkers to ditch you.
- If some effect (Unstable Footing, Everlasting Torment) allows for you to damage him while he's a creature, he will both a) lose that many loyalty counters (potentially losing all of them); b) is subject to being destroyed for having lethal damage. Typically, this is 6+ damage assigned. If he should have 7+ loyalty counters and takes 6 damage, he loses the 6 counters (keeps 1), and is destroyed for lethal damage.
- If you equip him or enchant him, the equipment/Aura will generally fall off when he reverts to being a planeswalker again. The aura will presumably go to the graveyard for no longer enchanting its relevant card type. (Confiscate will stay where it is, Persuasion will go away.)
- If an effect (such as Ajani Goldmane or Soul's Might) gives him +1/+1 counters, he will have both the +1/+1 counters and the loyalty counters. When Gideon Jura stops being a creature, he retains both types of counters; they do not cancel out each other (so far, that's only +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters).
- Wither damage that isn't prevented (Everlasting Torment) will place -1/-1 counters on him. As previously mentioned, they will remain present if you make him a creature again (or give him +1/+1 counters to effectively get rid of the -1/-1 type). Like any creature, he can theoretically go to the graveyard for having 0 or less toughness.
- If a card such as Clonecopies him while he's a creature, it becomes a copy of Planeswalker - Gideon (as if you had paid for the 3WW version), not the 6/6 animated creature version; you get a copy of the card as printed, not what the copied card currently is*. They will both go to the graveyard (immediately; no you can't use any abilities or respond to this) because of two Planeswalkers being on the battlefield with the same subtype at the same time. So in short: Clone or Sakashima the Imposter or one of any bajillion copy effects will end up with this card going poof. I will note that Cytoshape is an instant speed way to remove him (and the targetted creature) without using destroy/exile/sacrifice effects though!
2) What the Group Hug (+2) ability means
- You can't use this ability if it can't target anyone, which means he doesn't get +2 loyalty counters. (This is possible in a duel and your opponent names this card with Runed Halo or is controlling True Believer, Ivory Mask, Spirit of the Hearth, etc.)
- This ability basically means that on the targetted opponent's next turn's combat step, every creature he/she has must attack the planeswalker that turn if able. That's it. It doesn't change combat in any other way. Those creatures controlled by that opponent that can't avoid attacking during combat (they don't have T abilities or don't have defender for instance) must be declared as an attacker, and they must attack the taunting Gideon Jura.
- Any and all creatures you control can block as usual. This is no different than usual rules where a creature normally attacks a planeswalker. The only thing this ability does is require that creatures controlled by the targetted opponent attack not-you that turn if able. That doesn't mean your creatures suddenly turn catatonic and can't get in the way of the assault. The only one who has to do something different is your opponent. You can do whatever you want (that's legal) with what you want, including (but not limited to!) kill off the weenie rush with your fatties.
- All creatures that can attack Gideon Jura upon resolution of his +2 ability do so on that opponent's turn. The only reason they would not be able to is if an effect or ability (defender, Moat, summoning sickness, etc.) stops it from happening. Those creatures must be declared with Gideon Jura as the recipient of the pain. He's a masochist.
- If any of the creatures forced to attack him have Annihilator, and he must be sacrificed to it (because you have no other permanents to sacrifice, for example), unblocked creatures attacking him will not assign combat damage. Trample damage will not be assigned to you, either. Creatures either attack you, or one of your planeswalker(s). Trample only works against blocking creatures as far as the overflow goes. Just as a creature with trample dealing dealing excess damage to a player does not trample to another player, the same is true for a creature and "trampling through" a planeswalker to its controller; it doesn't happen (except in a very corner case we don't need to get into as it's outside the scope of this thread).
- If for some reason Gideon Jura leaves play after using this ability, creatures will not be forced to attack him, even if he comes back before that required attack step occurs (for example, the effect of Oblivion Ring, or his being replayed after bouncing him). They were required to attack the one that left play, not the current one as it is a new object. In other words, they're "not able" to attack the one that "taunted" them, so they don't have to obey that requirement.
3) Experiment Kraj
- I forget which rules update it was (M10 or Zendikar?), but loyalty abilities were given their own section of the rules, in similar vein to mana abilities. In short, the abilities typically seen on just a planeswalker (+2, -9, etc.) are intrinsically sorcery speed and "one of these abilities only from this particular permanent". In short, they made it a quality of the ability rather than the card type, just like a quality of mana abilities is that they do not use the stack. Even more in short: Experiment Kraj does not go infinite.
- Per KPDaly16: If Experiment Kraj is able to use his +2 ability, those creatures can't attack Experiment Kraj as it is neither a player nor planeswalker. The restriction is ignored and they gambole off freely into the wild red space of the combat part of the mat at Pro Tours.
4) Miscellaneous
- In multiplayer, if for some reason multiple players were able to use his +2 ability to target the same player via different copies of the card (for instance, player 1 bounces another player's and plays his/her own targetting player 4, repeat for player 2 and 3), then that player will effectively be required to attack the most recent +2 ability (given that it's the only Gideon Jura they can attack; they wouldn't get confused because the others aren't Jedi Mind-Tricking anymore). In the example, this would be player 3's.
- In Two-Headed Giant, only the targetted player on the opposing team has to obey the +2 ability. The other player(s)'s creatures on the team do not have to attack the planeswalker if able. He's not THAT good at drawing fire.
* I'm not discussing multiple copy-capable creatures here, since generally you will not be able to get multiple creatures able to copy an animated planeswalker at the same time as they enter the battlefield.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Legacy:
RBDark BurnBR
I'm assuming they don't attack because he is no longer a legal target.
With the Eldrazi, I'd assume all damage in neglected.
I think we'll need the FAQ for what happens if Experiment Kraj sticks a +1/+1 counter on Gideon and uses the +2 ability. I suspect that those creatures simply can't attack, because Experiment Kraj is not a Planeswalker or a player.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
If Mycosynth Lattice and March of the Machines are in play, Gideon will be a 5/5 colorless Artifact Creature Planeswalker. If you activate his {0} ability, he will be a 6/6 colorless Human Soldier Artifact Creature Planeswalker until end of turn, and then revert to being a 5/5 colorless Artifact Creature Planeswalker. Not too complicated.
By the way, try saying "6/6 colorless Human Soldier Artifact Creature Planeswalker" five times fast.
If there are no legal targets for +2 ability he will still get the 2 loyalty counters right?
(barring True Believer and stuff like that)
Commander:
URG Animar, Soul of Elements: Fatty Parade (M)
BR Wort, Boggart Auntie: Suddenly Goblins! (D)
Now here's my own question. It's more for clarification but I'd like to make sure I'm right about this. Friend asked me if Gideon can be "saved" by your own creatures when using his +2. That may sound confusing, so let me give this scenario as an example.
You have a 5/5 on the field with Gideon. The opponent has a 2/2. You use Gideon's +2 ability and they swing with the 2/2. You can block with the 5/5, correct?
There are never any legal targets his for +2 ability, because it doesn't target anything.
I did a little reorganization, namely "+2 goes pedantic", also answering Seth's friend's question. I tried to be humorous too...
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
I definitely completely overlooked the word "target" blatantly spelled out in the ability. Mah bad.
The ability doesn't say anything about your creatures being able to or not being able to block. So yes, you can still block as normal.
You play a flash creature and block him. Gideon takes two damage.
My question: Does Gideon also lose two loyalty counters?
@Shahrazad the subgame creator: Damage to him is normally prevented, so neither? EDIT - I put that particular case in though.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Nope, the ability specifically says, "Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn"
Legacy:
RBDark BurnBR
First off, since it seems to be a common misconception, can you please add that HE STOPS BEING A CREATURE AT END OF TURN? People are talking about him blocking as a creature like it's possible.
Experiment Kraj: Using its +2 would activate an ability that says "all creatures attack Experiment Kraj if able." Creatures are not able to attack other creatures by Magic rules, so this would not affect the creatures at all and they would be able to attack normally (unless you somehow made Kraj a Planeswalker of course).
Multiplayer: If another player got Gideon out, it would mean that Player 1 no longer had one, so the first attack restriction would no longer be there (as you can't attack something that's not there).
If some sort of Mirror Gallery for PW's was printed, my best guess would be that the creatures would have to fulfill as many attacking requirements as possible, so the controller of the creatures would choose which Gideon to attack so long as he was attacking one of them.
No, because you prevent all damage dealt to him.
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:symu::symr: Painter :symr::symu:
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Nope, it does say to prevent all damage to him this turn, even on the planeswalker, so you DON'T LOSE LOYALTY COUNTERS since the damage dealt to him as a creature and a plansswalker is prevented. Like preventing damage to yourself, you don't lose life since you prevented it, same goes for PW, if the damage is prevented he doesn't lose any Loyalty counters.
Absolutely.
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When you use his [0] ability, he is a white Soldier creature. So Pikemaster will give him First Strike, Captain will give him +1/+1 and Vigilance and HotP will give him +1/+1.
Anyone want to wager on the loyalty ability rules change coming about because of this card being finalized last year?
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And I'm pretty sure this is EXACTLY why they changed the rule. Not like Kraj combos were any less convoluted than plenty of everyday infinite combos.
I don't believe that bolded part is correct. The "attacks if able" requirement only applies during the declare attackers step. Nothing prevents a player from taking actions before that to put creatures in a position that leaves them unable to attack.EDIT: Whoops. Sorry; I misread your statement. What you have is correct, but it can easily be misread as though you said the creatures aren't allowed to use tap abilities.