So taking a look at Sagas makes me want to build a deck around them but do you think they are too predictable in the sense that the opponent have some time to react to it.
Take Phyrexian Scriptures for instance. It will tell you and the opponent what it will do each turn, in this case make a creature of yours an artifact that wont be killed next turn. Other than the opponent having the opputunity to just destroy the enchantment, it also gives him a choice of destroying the creature you chose so it won´t be alive next turn when every non-artifact creature get´s destroyed.
I guess my question is if it´s even worth playing Sagas when the opponent will know your actions once a Saga hits the battlefield
Yes, it will be worth it--playing a Saga will force them to counter it immediately or else have the answer for it during the next three turns, whether by bouncing it or destroying it. The fact that they know what effects it will have won't matter.
It's not like Magic players have never encountered cards with clocks and predictable outcomes. We've had them all along, just not always in an ice neat package like a. Saga. In fact, I believe that the Contraptions from Unstable is just a variation on the theme that groomed players for Sagas.
They feel like linear planeswalkers to me; when you play a planeswalker you opponent knows what it can do and will proabaly be able to make a pretty good guess at what ability you will activate on a given turn. Infact even creatures telegraph what your plans are, if you play a creature with a tap ability your opponent knows and has a turn to react.
They get time to react but you are also getting a boatload of value if they don't react. You will have to build around them, but I like that.
As it's already been stated, count down timers are nothing new. I still remember my time in Time Spiral standard/limited and how players reacted to Suspend cards. Heck, you still see Jhoira of the Ghitu show up in Commander from time to time.
Sagas are interesting. If you play them raw, as you're likely going to have to do in Standard, you're forcing your opponent's hand. It pushes the game closer to a perfect knowledge state. They know what's coming, but you know that they know. Again with Phyrexian Scriptures as the example, they know the board wipe is coming, so now they have to choose between either holding their creatures, leaving them vulnerable to attack, or play creatures to be defensive knowing they're going to lose them.
Once you break into larger formats, especially Commander, I can see a lot of these seeing play hand in hand with Proliferate. I know I want Phyrexian Scriptures for my Atraxia deck, both for the flavor win and the effect.
I wonder if they could work well with Mirage Mirror which can copy a Saga during the upkeep, gain lore counters, and switch between different Sagas in play.
So taking a look at Sagas makes me want to build a deck around them but do you think they are too predictable in the sense that the opponent have some time to react to it.
Take Phyrexian Scriptures for instance. It will tell you and the opponent what it will do each turn, in this case make a creature of yours an artifact that wont be killed next turn. Other than the opponent having the opputunity to just destroy the enchantment, it also gives him a choice of destroying the creature you chose so it won´t be alive next turn when every non-artifact creature get´s destroyed.
I guess my question is if it´s even worth playing Sagas when the opponent will know your actions once a Saga hits the battlefield
The easy way to figure out whether predicatble spells are an issue is playing with existing variants e. g. Rift Bolt. Or even closer: cards with rebound. How much would they change if they were enchantments? How often is investing into enchantment removal for the second coming of the effect worth it?
There are plenty of enchantments already, that have upkeep triggers. And plenty of them get to trigger. The fact that Sagas also always have an effect upon entering the battlefield is a bonus. Even with better enchantment removal there is always a cost to having that available over another card.
I don't think the fact that an opponent can play removal against one of your creatures is really doing much to undo the Saga either.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Telegraphing informations is what makes magic more predictable and makes a good player outperform a bad one.
You very well can know what happens in the turns and play accordingly, the better you can do that, the better for you.
Playing a saga yourself is just good as you get 3 effects, each Saga is reasonable to play at some point if you can reap its important abilities.
For some sagas its just value and more value, for others you get some kind of drawback and build into the pay-off.
All of that is fine.
Your opponent can deal with the cards in several ways and so can you, bounce them, play them again (flicker them).
They are overall very good cards in Limited as they provide big effects for less mana , while you invest for several turns.
In older formats the drawback becomes much more relevant, as games dont go that long and there are cards like Abrupt Decay that can just "accidentally" deal with Sagas, so they probably wont have an impact in these formats as they are simply too slow.
----
That all said, they are never really "bad" for you if you think a little ahead what you want to do with them.
The opponent is most often not able to completely outplay you around them, and can only act accordingly to get "some" form of advantage.
And thats a good thing, rewarding the better player for making good choices is something that is better than just having a random outcome.
So taking a look at Sagas makes me want to build a deck around them but do you think they are too predictable in the sense that the opponent have some time to react to it.
Take Phyrexian Scriptures for instance. It will tell you and the opponent what it will do each turn, in this case make a creature of yours an artifact that wont be killed next turn. Other than the opponent having the opputunity to just destroy the enchantment, it also gives him a choice of destroying the creature you chose so it won´t be alive next turn when every non-artifact creature get´s destroyed.
I guess my question is if it´s even worth playing Sagas when the opponent will know your actions once a Saga hits the battlefield
It's not like Magic players have never encountered cards with clocks and predictable outcomes. We've had them all along, just not always in an ice neat package like a. Saga. In fact, I believe that the Contraptions from Unstable is just a variation on the theme that groomed players for Sagas.
2BB is a solid price for a potentially one-sided creature sweeper plus a one-sided Rest in Peace enters trigger.
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They get time to react but you are also getting a boatload of value if they don't react. You will have to build around them, but I like that.
Sagas are interesting. If you play them raw, as you're likely going to have to do in Standard, you're forcing your opponent's hand. It pushes the game closer to a perfect knowledge state. They know what's coming, but you know that they know. Again with Phyrexian Scriptures as the example, they know the board wipe is coming, so now they have to choose between either holding their creatures, leaving them vulnerable to attack, or play creatures to be defensive knowing they're going to lose them.
Once you break into larger formats, especially Commander, I can see a lot of these seeing play hand in hand with Proliferate. I know I want Phyrexian Scriptures for my Atraxia deck, both for the flavor win and the effect.
More or less agree w/what SavannahLion said, these really changes nothing at all. We've had lots of cards like this..
Demonic Pact, Nevinyrral's Disk are both really good examples. I'd also point out things like the quests and levellers.
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The easy way to figure out whether predicatble spells are an issue is playing with existing variants e. g. Rift Bolt. Or even closer: cards with rebound. How much would they change if they were enchantments? How often is investing into enchantment removal for the second coming of the effect worth it?
There are plenty of enchantments already, that have upkeep triggers. And plenty of them get to trigger. The fact that Sagas also always have an effect upon entering the battlefield is a bonus. Even with better enchantment removal there is always a cost to having that available over another card.
I don't think the fact that an opponent can play removal against one of your creatures is really doing much to undo the Saga either.
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You very well can know what happens in the turns and play accordingly, the better you can do that, the better for you.
Playing a saga yourself is just good as you get 3 effects, each Saga is reasonable to play at some point if you can reap its important abilities.
For some sagas its just value and more value, for others you get some kind of drawback and build into the pay-off.
All of that is fine.
Your opponent can deal with the cards in several ways and so can you, bounce them, play them again (flicker them).
They are overall very good cards in Limited as they provide big effects for less mana , while you invest for several turns.
In older formats the drawback becomes much more relevant, as games dont go that long and there are cards like Abrupt Decay that can just "accidentally" deal with Sagas, so they probably wont have an impact in these formats as they are simply too slow.
----
That all said, they are never really "bad" for you if you think a little ahead what you want to do with them.
The opponent is most often not able to completely outplay you around them, and can only act accordingly to get "some" form of advantage.
And thats a good thing, rewarding the better player for making good choices is something that is better than just having a random outcome.
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