Since this mornings reveal of Paradox Engine, we have been throwing out combos after combos. So those combos/synergies do not get lost in the main revealing, I thought it would be fitting if we have a thread dedicated to Paradox Engine.
Here is the card in all it's glory:
Paradox Engine 5
Legendary Artifact - Mythic
Whenever you cast a spell, untap all nonland permanents you control.
I dunno...I was thinking accelerate out Metalwork and Engine...triggers making mana via the mana rocks and crawler, crack a sanctum to get a kozilk? draw cards when you hard cast it with your extra mana. Use outcome to draw + ramp (if enough mana rocks) Archive is free to cast (free draw spell). Metalwork can be bounced and played for free. If we get enough storm we can win with a reservoir or just use the acceleration to beat down with 10/10s or cast eldrazi
As soon as you have 5 creatures, the spell becomes free to cast and allows you to loop infinitely, netting you infinite Saprolings. And if any of your original 5 creatures have no-mana tap abilities, they'll go infinite too. Cathartic Adept, Blightspeaker, Mana dorks, whatever you want.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Isochron and Lightning Bolt allow for an instant win turn 5 as long as you have non-land mana generation like artifacts, cryptolith rite, or mana dorks. It's only slightly more tricky than the splinter twin decks, but even that had some weaknesses this one wouldn't.
I have to wonder, isn't "buyback" + paradoxial engine not just a "win"? So long as you can pay for the buyback?
Ie:
White: Change of Heart (4 mana) - infinite "fog"
blue: Clockspinning (4 mana) - infinite planeswalker counters. (Or suspend immediatelly/counter deletion) Mind Games (4 mana) - infinite tap
black: Brush with Death (7 mana) - infintie damage + life gain.
RED: Seething Anger- (5 mana) on the board, infintie damage
Green: Sprout Swarm - (5 mana) infinite 1/1 tokens (has convoke) Wurmcalling - (X+4 mana) infinite x/x tokens
Honourable mentions goes to:
Haze of Rage just cause it has storm + buyback... The mathematician in me sees that this grow "faster" to infinite than any of the above: exponential increase instead of linear.
Modern is slightly worse, since no direct damage for black or red, and also the "foglike" effects of white are gone but we have these: Reiterate - (4RR) infinite copies of an instants/sorcery spell (bolt?) Evangelize - (6WWW) control all creatures
Seriously in a blue-red EDH deck this would mean the combo is basically either 9 mana at once; or 5 mana + protect it one turn + next turn "gg". Based on a single instant and artifact: two things blue and red can really easily tutor for. This card doesn't even NEED storm to go infinite, just a single other card can do it.
No, it's not an insta-win. It looks to me like you're thinking PE says "untap all permanents", but it says "nonland permanents"
Now with a few mana dorks on the field, you're in business.
With Elemental Bond, this is essentially "GGG: Draw three cards." For extra fun, use Aether Hub to spend the energy so you can keep bouncing and casting it (note that the EE payment is not optional; you have to pay it if you can pay it). Or play Servant of the Conduit and Paradox Engine to draw your entire library in a single turn. Could be a fun combo with Impact Tremors and Warstorm Surge.
Seriously. I honestly think that could be reasonable combo in standard -- Servant is ramp to get out Engine, this endlessly loops. Maybe Territorial Gorger or something as win-con?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
In modern, maybe you can use both the Engine and [[Lifecrafter's Bestiary]] from AR plus mana dorks for a T3 win?
Ex.,
Turn 1- play a forest and an [[arbor elf]]
Turn 2- play a 2nd forest, tap one to put [[utopia sprawl]] on the other forest, use [[arbor elf]] to untap forest to net 4 mana, play [[Lifecrafter's Bestiary]], maybe keep the mana in reserve for [[vines of vastwood]] or to play another [[arbor elf]] or [[utopia sprawl]]
Turn 3- play forest #3, play [[Paradox Engine]], keep drawing and playing hasty threats
If you pull this card, you will lose all your friends.
So broken in EDH. IDK about other formats, but this thing is astounding. I'm butthurt on behalf of my playgroup that must endure this when I play Silas Renn.
I'm running a modern deck with paradox engine, isochron scepter, and palladium myr to get the engine going, and i use muddle the mixture, path to exile, silence and boomerang to imprint. For creatures i have prodigal sorcerer, reckless scholar, and if i get silence on iso i use grand abolisher. Any ideas how y'all would set up a deck like this. Maybe things to cut or add or ways to make it reliable?
Here is the card in all it's glory:
Paradox Engine 5
Legendary Artifact - Mythic
Whenever you cast a spell, untap all nonland permanents you control.
OK, let's see what all of you come up with.
4x Mox Opal
4x Izzet Signet
4x Talisman of Progress
4x Paradox Engine
Instant(8):
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Paradoxical Outcome
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Faithless Looting
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
2x Grapeshot
3x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
2x Island
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Steam Vents
4 Hedron Crawler
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Metalwork Colossus
3 Emrakul, the Promised End
Artifacts:16
4 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
4 Cultivator's Caravan
4 Hedron Archive
4 Paradox Engine
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
4 Paradoxical Outcome
Lands:24
3 Inventors' Fair
4 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Blighted Cataract
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium
2 Mirrorpool
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
7 Island
I dunno...I was thinking accelerate out Metalwork and Engine...triggers making mana via the mana rocks and crawler, crack a sanctum to get a kozilk? draw cards when you hard cast it with your extra mana. Use outcome to draw + ramp (if enough mana rocks) Archive is free to cast (free draw spell). Metalwork can be bounced and played for free. If we get enough storm we can win with a reservoir or just use the acceleration to beat down with 10/10s or cast eldrazi
I posted this in the main thread too: Sprout Swarm + Paradox Engine + 5 creatures.
As soon as you have 5 creatures, the spell becomes free to cast and allows you to loop infinitely, netting you infinite Saprolings. And if any of your original 5 creatures have no-mana tap abilities, they'll go infinite too. Cathartic Adept, Blightspeaker, Mana dorks, whatever you want.
The main problem though is redundancy, since Paradox Engine / Sprout Swarm are unique. Intruder Alarm can fill in as PE for SS, but that's it.
[Idea 2]
Diregraf Colossus + Gravecrawler + sac = infinite zombies
[Idea 3]
Cloudstone Curio + Burning-Tree Emissary x2 + tap-effect creatures.
//
The trouble is setting up casting loops, there's various ways to do that, it just depends on how fragile they are.
Additionally, since PE costs 5, it's hard to cast it and start any loops during the same turn.
Soul of the Harvest (yes in Standard), Quicksmith Genius, Trail of Evidence, Zendikar Resurgent
Honestly, Soul of the Harvest, Paradox Engine, tons and tons and tons of cheap mana dorks (Beastcaller Savant), maybe Hanweir Battlements for haste and Chandra, Flamecaller for some drawing power: you could cast most of a deck pretty fast, and have the ramp to use a 5-mana artifact anyways.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
2 Quicksmith Rebel
4 Foundry Inspector
4 Herald of Kozilek
4 Paradoxical Outcome
mana rocks
4 Cultivator's Caravan
4 Magnifying Glass
4 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
2 Aetherflux Reservoir
4 Cogworker's Puzzleknot
2 Cogworker's Puzzleknot
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
No, it's not an insta-win. It looks to me like you're thinking PE says "untap all permanents", but it says "nonland permanents"
Now with a few mana dorks on the field, you're in business.
About Mindslaver rulings:
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
From http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/766738-jules-robins-twitter-spoiler-greenbelt-rampager?page=2
Seriously. I honestly think that could be reasonable combo in standard -- Servant is ramp to get out Engine, this endlessly loops. Maybe Territorial Gorger or something as win-con?
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
About Mindslaver rulings:
Aye, this was more about the last part of the quote from Manite: the new Greenbelt Rampager + Servant of the Conduit + Paradox Engine is infinite casts and untaps.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Ex.,
Turn 1- play a forest and an [[arbor elf]]
Turn 2- play a 2nd forest, tap one to put [[utopia sprawl]] on the other forest, use [[arbor elf]] to untap forest to net 4 mana, play [[Lifecrafter's Bestiary]], maybe keep the mana in reserve for [[vines of vastwood]] or to play another [[arbor elf]] or [[utopia sprawl]]
Turn 3- play forest #3, play [[Paradox Engine]], keep drawing and playing hasty threats
So broken in EDH. IDK about other formats, but this thing is astounding. I'm butthurt on behalf of my playgroup that must endure this when I play Silas Renn.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝