Between the new Demon, Chandra(s), Liliana, Diabolic Tutor, Unlicensed Disintegration, and various burn spells, does anyone else feel like there's a decent Rakdos control deck to be made in standard?
This is my second favorite time of the magic year. First is naturally spoilers and then is this part where everyone comes out to show just how bad at evaluating cards that are.
This is my second favorite time of the magic year. First is naturally spoilers and then is this part where everyone comes out to show just how bad at evaluating cards that are.
You could offer constructive criticism. Which evacuation do you disagree with? Obviously there are cards that are just trash but as far as standard and limited are concerned, it really depends how the meta shakes out. For exaple I said desecration demon was unplayable because of lingering souls, but after souls rotated it became a staple.
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The trick with Dubious Challenge is to have 2 playsets of cards like Reflector Mage and Fairgrounds Warden. You have about a 90% chance at least one of those 2 cards is in your choices. Then you put a really good creature as the other choice. If they choose the good creature, then you either bounce the card back to your hand or you exile it until your card leaves the battlefield and the exiled card comes back under your control. So, they have to chose the reflector mage or Fairgrounds Warden. You then bounce that card back to your hand or into exile and onto the battlefield under your control reactivating the ETB trigger.
in standard almost all uncommon multicolor cycle is severely underated, trust me that at least 1 of those will a staple of a tier 1 archtype in the near future.
Wow, somehow missed gearseeker serpent. Legitimately insane, like this is myr enforcer but +1/+2 and ability to be unblockable, all for the low cost of UU.
Yeah, there are ways to make dubious challenge good. Just like there are ways to make lich's tomb good. Being a sorcery hurts the chances quite a lot as well as needing to hit specific cards that you are not guaranteed to hit.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
some sweet cards all around, but I think I was a bit too hyped, as the set strikes me once again as being too focused on safe-standard-design with some niche edh cards here and there. Nothing wrong with that, basically any set from now on will be like this, it's the safe way without breaking formats.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Aetherworks Marvel I didn't realize how crazy stupid this card is when built around.
How crazy stupid? Good in Standard stupid? Playable in Modern stupid? If it's powerful enough, I'd love to see your deck!
Turn 4 with ability to potentially cast Emrakul on opponents turn at instant speed without using any mana stupid. It is cast any card out of the six. I can't seem to get the deck tags to work. It always shows up as an empty deck box. There are many combos but the deck needs to be built around green so you have other big options early. I prefer UG because I can use Attune with Aether which is 1 cost 2 energy it lets me fetch a land (so I can play with less in deck and thin it out) Thriving Turtle which gets 2 energy for 1 mana and provides an early blocker and improves odds of having a 1 cost 2 energy producer. Longtusk Cub so you have a pumpable target for energy in the 2 spot that could swing on turn 3 and be anything from a 2/2 to 5/5 depending on how opponent blocks and just grow from there. Servant of the Conduit provides energy and allows for ramp. Aether Meltdown and Aether Theorist are also candidates for a 2 drop spot. Then a few Architect of the Untamed to put a 6/6 beast on board by turn 4 if no better options (like the Aetherworks Marvel). Then whatever big stuff and removal you want. If Marvel is in hand by turn 3 and you played a Servant on turn 2, you can play it then if you are in OK board state and can get to 6 energy on turn 4 while still leaving mana open on turn 4 or simply wait until turn 4 and play it. If it hits the board on turn 3 or turn 4 then you wait until opponents turn. Either in combat phase or end of their turn you tap pay 6 energy and now you get to cast whatever card you want from the 6 you look at without using any mana. Removal, creature, or Plainswalker take your pick.
UG Marvel won't be a real deck, because a single counterspell ruins your day.
But if U control decks are unplayable (the fast aggro decks are not bad in this format), it may pray on the slower midrange style decks.
Not really. If you are playing against control you go to 4 of negates. Even if your Marvel is countered, then you pump the Cub or create 6/6 beast tokens with the Architect. The Cub lets you pump at instant speed whenever you want and green lets you run or sideboard blossoming defense so against black or blue you save energy and only pump after you have spell protection for it or opponent is tapped out and you have a good opportunity. You also run sorcery, instant, enchantment (Aether Meltdown), artifact, creature, and plainswalker card types in to help cast Emrakul. I'm thinking you run 2 or possibly 3 Rashmi (insane card draw), 1 or 2 Nissa, 2 Gearhulks (2 of either or 1 of each) and 2 Emrakuls. Maindeck or sideboard turtles against aggro. A 0/3 or 1/4 slows down aggro early game as does Aether Meltdown and both feed your energy (if you leave the turtle as a 1/3) and then pairs with Aether Tradewinds which you leave a couple of in sideboard. I'm also thinking you either maindeck or sideboard at least a couple copies of Nature's claim or Larger than life.
It might work, but the downfall of these kind of decks is that you play a lot of otherwise mediocre cards just to create energy and roll over and die if you don't draw your energy pay-off cards or your opponent removes them. It also fails if you spend 6 energy to reveal no game-winning free spell.
So, fragile, inconsistent, and lots of support cards needed.
(In contrast, collected company worked well because CC didn't need other spell to go off and the free spells you got were good by themselves *and* cheap to cast by themselves. see the unwritten looked at more cards, for a higher cost, granted, and yet never took off.)
It might work, but the downfall of these kind of decks is that you play a lot of otherwise mediocre cards just to create energy and roll over and die if you don't draw your energy pay-off cards or your opponent removes them. It also fails if you spend 6 energy to reveal no game-winning free spell.
So, fragile, inconsistent, and lots of support cards needed.
(In contrast, collected company worked well because CC didn't need other spell to go off and the free spells you got were good by themselves *and* cheap to cast by themselves. see the unwritten looked at more cards, for a higher cost, granted, and yet never took off.)
You may be right, but I don't see the other cards as being that fragile. Sure a few are, but most have upside
Attune with Aether lets you play less lands in the deck and is an early 1 drop that replaces itself, thins land out further, and insures you have other mana source you need Longtusk Cub is just a power card. Your opponent does not want to see that sitting on the board in an energy deck Servant of the Conduit is a bear that can mana fix and ramp two times self sustained. Architect of the Untamed is only a 2/3 body on a 3 drop, but provides energy over the long haul and is a great outlet for the energy Rashmi, Eternities Crafter is a 2/3 body on a 4 drop, but nobody wants to see that card staying on the board and another lightning rod for opponents removal that I would gladly cast off the Marvel
Sure you run 2 Emrakuls which can't be cast early, but you run enough card types you can afford to sit on 1 if it ends up in your hand or if you want to play it a little safer run Sphinx of the Final Word.
The rest of your deck is support but they aren't bad cards and you craft using sideboard to fit your needs after game 1.
Blossoming Defense +2/+2 and hexproof for 1, I'm main decking at least 2 and maybe 4 but I will definitely have the entire playset somewhere. Negate a staple and will be useful against virtually every deck. Main deck 2 and sideboard 2. Aether Meltdown main deck 0-2 but have a full playset between main deck and sideboard and chose how many based on opponents deck Thriving Turtle (yes this is a weak card but gives great synergy) main deck 2 and run 2 in sideboard against aggressive decks. 2 energy early slows down aggro Nature's Waymain deck 1 or 2 and run more in sideboard for midrange decks or decks that run fliers because that is your biggest weakness. Aether Tradewinds sideboard 3 for aggro decks where you run the turtles and the Meltdowns.
I'm not that great a magic player, so I'm sure there are huge flaws in my thinking, but that said I'm not that good of a magic player and even I am thinking of ways to abuse this so no telling what the really good magic players will come up with.
Aetherworks Marvel I didn't realize how crazy stupid this card is when built around.
How crazy stupid? Good in Standard stupid? Playable in Modern stupid? If it's powerful enough, I'd love to see your deck!
Here is what I finally came up with. I'm still sure a better player can come up with improvements.
Maybe go Temur and use Servant of the Conduit, Attune with Aether, and Aether Hub then only run 22 lands?
4x Attune with Aether
3x Blossoming Defense
3x Negate
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Aether Theorist
4x Decoction Module
4x Whirler Virtuoso
2x Aethertorch Renegade
3x Panharmonicon
3x Aetherworks Marvel
2x Confiscation Coup
2x Emrakul, the Promised End
4x Aether Hub
4x Spirebuff Canal
4x Botanical Sanctum
2x Game Trail
3x Mountain
3x Forest
2x Island
Once the Marvel goes off the first time you are hoping to hit Panharmonicon (which you would play before you set the Marvel off if possible) or Emrakul but it isn't terrible if you miss. If Panharmonicon is already on the board, then hitting Virtuoso, Renegade, or Theorist gets you enough energy to set off the marvel on the next turn. If not it gets you 1/2 way to refilling your energy and you will probably be able to generate enough etb on next turn to set the marvel off again on the next turn. Drawing into confiscation coup lets you steal something that might win the game or at least extend it and if panharmonicon is out you should be close to setting marvel off again next turn. Any scry from a theorist is a bonus. The hope is also that after 2 or 3 times you are going to hit Emrakul or be able to play both decoction modules for your infinite combo. Blossoming defense and Negate are to defend your combo pieces.
Against Aggro sideboard in Harnessed Lightning and Aether Meltdown to replace blossoming defense and negate. Longtusk Cub to replace the Servant. Rashmi, Eternities Crafter to replace Confiscation Coup or Emrakul. 15th sideboard is an island.
I'm pretty high on Scrapheap Scrounger. It costs 1 more to initially get out than Bloodsoaked Champion (a good card in its own right), but there's a big difference between a 2/1 that keeps coming back and a 3/2 that keeps coming back.
I'm pretty high on Scrapheap Scrounger. It costs 1 more to initially get out than Bloodsoaked Champion (a good card in its own right), but there's a big difference between a 2/1 that keeps coming back and a 3/2 that keeps coming back.
between 3/2 and 2/1 alone not really: there is BIG difference because one need board presence and the other dont (against sweepers) and one have a specific timing and the other can be used even at EOT of the opponent!
I'm pretty high on Scrapheap Scrounger. It costs 1 more to initially get out than Bloodsoaked Champion (a good card in its own right), but there's a big difference between a 2/1 that keeps coming back and a 3/2 that keeps coming back.
between 3/2 and 2/1 alone not really: there is BIG difference because one need board presence and the other dont (against sweepers) and one have a specific timing and the other can be used even at EOT of the opponent!
Just got back from our local PR. Didn't expect to 4-0 the competition with the help of Night Market Lookout. This card plus a cheap vehicle like Sky Skiff puts pressure early on and most likely overwhelms before any opponent can drop their bombs. I can't say if this will see play in Standard though since RW seems to be the color of choice for vehicle themed decks.
I'm investing a good bit of money on Panharmonicon, looking from an Eternal format point of view. Every 187 creature ever doubles, Isochron Scepter can cast two Instants for two mana (double Boomerang on lands much?), it's relevant in Standard because charge counters 187 on half the creatures/artifacts, and EDH would do well to tutor it as much as possible. And all of that is on ***** you control- you could gain an advantage from your opponent without even planning on it.
I pre-ordered a few things I'm confident will see play- Dovin Baan( couple regs and a foil- I bet he looks purdy in foil), Cataclysmic Gearhulk & Fumigate. Also took a chance on Aetherstorm Roc foils and Skyship Stalker. Those two are so cheap it won't matter if I lose
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. I can't wait till I can play my bicycle land out, thus making me heckbent, while I have Nessie on the field. You know, so I can attack with my Pervert.
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Gearseeker is actually really useful - good cost reduction and can break board states without any outside help.
My other picks would be
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Smuggler's Copter
Insidious Will
Torrential Gearhulk (both artworks are great + "Fatcaster" ability)
Angel of Invention (great artwork and cool abilities, although its probably not that strong)
Aethersquall Ancient (see Angel)
Fumigate (good Wrath variant!)
Glimmer of Genius (neat spell, feels like so much value)
Spark of Creativity (really creative effect)
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter (Commander!)
Cloudblazer (artwork is lacking a bit, but very nice ability)
Panharmonicon (just completely bonkers with so many cards ... will probably come to hate it haha)
Aradara Express (running over your opponent with a train is hilarious)
You could offer constructive criticism. Which evacuation do you disagree with? Obviously there are cards that are just trash but as far as standard and limited are concerned, it really depends how the meta shakes out. For exaple I said desecration demon was unplayable because of lingering souls, but after souls rotated it became a staple.
Yeah, there are ways to make dubious challenge good. Just like there are ways to make lich's tomb good. Being a sorcery hurts the chances quite a lot as well as needing to hit specific cards that you are not guaranteed to hit.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Chandra, torch of defiance (standard & modern, cube superstar)
smuggler's copter
aether hub
scrapheap scrounger (modern dredge?)
Toolcraft exemplar (could inspire white based affinity in modern)
blooming marsh and friends
Aetherworks marvel (huge potential in standard alone)
Rashmi, eternities crafter (might be a popular edh general)
panharmonicon (if not banned in edh after a while, this is basically guaranteed to be a 5$ card in a few years)
Nissa, Vital Force (I think this walker is massively underrated)
ceremonious rejection (legacy & vintage)
are the cards that pique my interest.
How crazy stupid? Good in Standard stupid? Playable in Modern stupid? If it's powerful enough, I'd love to see your deck!
Turn 4 with ability to potentially cast Emrakul on opponents turn at instant speed without using any mana stupid. It is cast any card out of the six. I can't seem to get the deck tags to work. It always shows up as an empty deck box. There are many combos but the deck needs to be built around green so you have other big options early. I prefer UG because I can use Attune with Aether which is 1 cost 2 energy it lets me fetch a land (so I can play with less in deck and thin it out) Thriving Turtle which gets 2 energy for 1 mana and provides an early blocker and improves odds of having a 1 cost 2 energy producer. Longtusk Cub so you have a pumpable target for energy in the 2 spot that could swing on turn 3 and be anything from a 2/2 to 5/5 depending on how opponent blocks and just grow from there. Servant of the Conduit provides energy and allows for ramp. Aether Meltdown and Aether Theorist are also candidates for a 2 drop spot. Then a few Architect of the Untamed to put a 6/6 beast on board by turn 4 if no better options (like the Aetherworks Marvel). Then whatever big stuff and removal you want. If Marvel is in hand by turn 3 and you played a Servant on turn 2, you can play it then if you are in OK board state and can get to 6 energy on turn 4 while still leaving mana open on turn 4 or simply wait until turn 4 and play it. If it hits the board on turn 3 or turn 4 then you wait until opponents turn. Either in combat phase or end of their turn you tap pay 6 energy and now you get to cast whatever card you want from the 6 you look at without using any mana. Removal, creature, or Plainswalker take your pick.
Edit: Even better is if you have Aether Meltdown in hand, 4 energy and at least 2 mana open with Aetherworks Marvel on board. Flash in Aether Meltdown and then tap the Marvel.
Not really. If you are playing against control you go to 4 of negates. Even if your Marvel is countered, then you pump the Cub or create 6/6 beast tokens with the Architect. The Cub lets you pump at instant speed whenever you want and green lets you run or sideboard blossoming defense so against black or blue you save energy and only pump after you have spell protection for it or opponent is tapped out and you have a good opportunity. You also run sorcery, instant, enchantment (Aether Meltdown), artifact, creature, and plainswalker card types in to help cast Emrakul. I'm thinking you run 2 or possibly 3 Rashmi (insane card draw), 1 or 2 Nissa, 2 Gearhulks (2 of either or 1 of each) and 2 Emrakuls. Maindeck or sideboard turtles against aggro. A 0/3 or 1/4 slows down aggro early game as does Aether Meltdown and both feed your energy (if you leave the turtle as a 1/3) and then pairs with Aether Tradewinds which you leave a couple of in sideboard. I'm also thinking you either maindeck or sideboard at least a couple copies of Nature's claim or Larger than life.
So, fragile, inconsistent, and lots of support cards needed.
(In contrast, collected company worked well because CC didn't need other spell to go off and the free spells you got were good by themselves *and* cheap to cast by themselves. see the unwritten looked at more cards, for a higher cost, granted, and yet never took off.)
You may be right, but I don't see the other cards as being that fragile. Sure a few are, but most have upside
Attune with Aether lets you play less lands in the deck and is an early 1 drop that replaces itself, thins land out further, and insures you have other mana source you need
Longtusk Cub is just a power card. Your opponent does not want to see that sitting on the board in an energy deck
Servant of the Conduit is a bear that can mana fix and ramp two times self sustained.
Architect of the Untamed is only a 2/3 body on a 3 drop, but provides energy over the long haul and is a great outlet for the energy
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter is a 2/3 body on a 4 drop, but nobody wants to see that card staying on the board and another lightning rod for opponents removal that I would gladly cast off the Marvel
Sure you run 2 Emrakuls which can't be cast early, but you run enough card types you can afford to sit on 1 if it ends up in your hand or if you want to play it a little safer run Sphinx of the Final Word.
The Verdurous Gearhulk and Nissa, Vital Force are only 5 drops.
The rest of your deck is support but they aren't bad cards and you craft using sideboard to fit your needs after game 1.
Blossoming Defense +2/+2 and hexproof for 1, I'm main decking at least 2 and maybe 4 but I will definitely have the entire playset somewhere.
Negate a staple and will be useful against virtually every deck. Main deck 2 and sideboard 2.
Aether Meltdown main deck 0-2 but have a full playset between main deck and sideboard and chose how many based on opponents deck
Thriving Turtle (yes this is a weak card but gives great synergy) main deck 2 and run 2 in sideboard against aggressive decks. 2 energy early slows down aggro
Nature's Waymain deck 1 or 2 and run more in sideboard for midrange decks or decks that run fliers because that is your biggest weakness.
Aether Tradewinds sideboard 3 for aggro decks where you run the turtles and the Meltdowns.
I'm not that great a magic player, so I'm sure there are huge flaws in my thinking, but that said I'm not that good of a magic player and even I am thinking of ways to abuse this so no telling what the really good magic players will come up with.
Here is what I finally came up with. I'm still sure a better player can come up with improvements.
Maybe go Temur and use Servant of the Conduit, Attune with Aether, and Aether Hub then only run 22 lands?
4x Attune with Aether
3x Blossoming Defense
3x Negate
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Aether Theorist
4x Decoction Module
4x Whirler Virtuoso
2x Aethertorch Renegade
3x Panharmonicon
3x Aetherworks Marvel
2x Confiscation Coup
2x Emrakul, the Promised End
4x Aether Hub
4x Spirebuff Canal
4x Botanical Sanctum
2x Game Trail
3x Mountain
3x Forest
2x Island
Once the Marvel goes off the first time you are hoping to hit Panharmonicon (which you would play before you set the Marvel off if possible) or Emrakul but it isn't terrible if you miss. If Panharmonicon is already on the board, then hitting Virtuoso, Renegade, or Theorist gets you enough energy to set off the marvel on the next turn. If not it gets you 1/2 way to refilling your energy and you will probably be able to generate enough etb on next turn to set the marvel off again on the next turn. Drawing into confiscation coup lets you steal something that might win the game or at least extend it and if panharmonicon is out you should be close to setting marvel off again next turn. Any scry from a theorist is a bonus. The hope is also that after 2 or 3 times you are going to hit Emrakul or be able to play both decoction modules for your infinite combo. Blossoming defense and Negate are to defend your combo pieces.
Against Aggro sideboard in Harnessed Lightning and Aether Meltdown to replace blossoming defense and negate. Longtusk Cub to replace the Servant. Rashmi, Eternities Crafter to replace Confiscation Coup or Emrakul. 15th sideboard is an island.
between 3/2 and 2/1 alone not really: there is BIG difference because one need board presence and the other dont (against sweepers) and one have a specific timing and the other can be used even at EOT of the opponent!
Scrapheap Scrounger can be pretty crazy with arcbound ravager
I like Bomat Courier with Scourge Wolfand Distemper of the Blood
The stick is specifically mentioned in how Panharmonicon works.