& to be honest, she seems weak d:(
+1 for only Scry 1 & a random damage ? Should be at least Scry 2
-2 is more interesting. But seems only useful with ETB triggers & for an additional attack.
-7 is really nice with huge artifacts. Should be game ending.
what bothers me is that she can not defend herself at all & her abilities dont Combine either.
Really, the only Shell i can imagine her in is Aggro, where her +1 filters draws & adds additional damage & her -2 adds more attackers.
First off I like to state that I think This set is going to be very Johnny like which means a lot of fun for me
So I think this you'll be good and commander and she is definitely competing for eternal formats with Dak.
Also and standard I think that she will pair good with the legendary creature that is Bluegreen that allows you to cascade all of your first spelled each turn
Temur will continue to be stong on the comeback train
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I'm alittle demon short and stout, this is my pitchfork, this is my mouth When I get all steamed up here me shout Bite your head off suck your soul out
& to be honest, she seems weak d:(
+1 for only Scry 1 & a random damage ? Should be at least Scry 2
-2 is more interesting. But seems only useful with ETB triggers & for an additional attack.
-7 is really nice with huge artifacts. Should be game ending.
what bothers me is that she can not defend herself at all & her abilities dont Combine either.
Really, the only Shell i can imagine her in is Aggro, where her +1 filters draws & adds additional damage & her -2 adds more attackers.
Personally I think she seems modern playable. I'll be trying her out in Jeskai and a buddy of mine is thinking of trying her in Grixis. She seems especially good in jeskai. -2 copy a resto, flicker snapcaster sounds pretty sweet.
she's pretty bad to protect herself, you're going to need a deck that can protect her.
that said... her +1 can prevent most planeswalkers from building loyalty and does that while doing a important card filter.
-2 might be very powerful, replicates ETBs, gives pseudo haste to a dude you just played (and leaves actual dude untapped and happy to block), can generate small ramp effects if you copy a mana rock and the utility goes on and on. Pretty powerful ability that will play very well in the deck you already need to have so she can be useful.
-7 is not being used... EVER. If you manage to keep a 3 mana walker for 5 turns without her taking damage and never needing to activate that -2 you should already have won because your opponent isn't doing a thing.
She's as powerful as the support for her is. Great utility walker for 3 mana, still I think she might be less powerful than Domri Rade or Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in a vacuum.
Thinking along the lines of a Fevered Visions Counter/Burn style deck. +1 Scry away useless card for optimal next draw while adding a ping, coupled with Visions pings adds up quick. -2 Copy a Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Reflector Mage, Thought-Knot Seer, Reality Smasher or a man land so as not to lose an actual land in combat, so many options here it is a pretty cool mechanic for sure. -7 could be an option in a long grindy control matchup and depending on what monster Artifacts are to come it may become a relevant option i.e. Nahiri, the Harbinger. I for one look forward to running her in some way or another in the coming Standard and she slots into my Fevered Dragon Visions deck when Ojutai and Thunderbreak rotate.
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
I agree, this walker seems outright horrible. Her +1 keeps enemy walkers down and scries, which is certainly nice, but she can't protect herself with it. Minus effect would be amazing if it could either copy your opponents stuff, or if the token stayed instead of exiling itself eot. In edh sure, potential enough there, but in other formats? I really can't wrap my head around what deck would even want her. I was instantly convinced by emn lili and bfz gideon, but I'd say this is our first 'face' walker who doesn't deserve to be the face of the set.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Everyone's saying "she costs 3" as a counterargument to "her abilities are weak." I'm not sure that really works. Yes, 3-mana planeswalkers do get cut a break, but I'm not sure it's enough.
She doesn't protect herself, and she doesn't generate any card advantage (unless you have some sick ETB trigger already in play). She also doesn't fit in an aggro deck. Every other 3-mana planeswalker can do one of those things.
I really like Saheeli Rai, but I don't see casting her on turn 3 to be a good play most of the time. It's her -2 that you want to focus on, and you probably need a Wurmcoil Engine in play before it's worth it. That said, there may be many more cards in this set that makes her worth playing. But I find it hard to imagine we'll get a 2-mana card that makes playing her on turn 3 worthwhile. And because of that, the fact that she costs 3 doesn't count for a whole lot.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
I am aware, yeah, I just mean that attacking with a 6/6 lifelink would be pretty good. I probably should have picked a better example, like Inferno Titan or something.
Guys, this is the new Liliana. Everyone is going on about how weak it is, then in the PT, the pros find a way to make it awesome, then it goes up to ~50 bucks. 20 bucks pre-order right now? Sign me up!
Think about this R/U modern: turn 1 delver. Turn 2(flip lil' D), stormchaser. Turn 3 get in a prowess trigger, 1 dmg, scry if: god forbid, delver hasn't flipped yet, if he's already flipped just minus 2 and get in for 8? That seems pretty good because in those colours you have bolt, along with a plethora of 3 dmg spells, worst case: they kill Ria because the threat of copy chaser, unload my hand, kill you on turn 4, if not just ping em and get the scry to smooth out draws... I've been playing modern U/R/b(sideboard and bump in the night) prowess for a while now and this card is a STRICT UPGRADE from baby Jace(Jace is a removal magnet, obviously). Could push this deck to a "real" (tier 2) contender rather than a spike deck! I'm excited AF
Honestly I don't see this being better than Chandra, the Face Burner in thermo-thing, both are great cards but I'm not sure Saheeli fits in the deck unless they print another fiery impulse, likely turn three I'm going to be playing my other tapped land such as Fumarole or Highland Lake and either burning something or leaving up counters... I think she's more or a sidboard card that maybe replaces 1negate and fiery impulse, but not many cards have been previewed yet so I could be wrong,
The deck only loses baby Jace ×2 and fiery impulse ×3 jace seems to switch to Chandra, mind sculpter, impulse at this point seems to turn into galvanic bombardment... Decks still awesome, but Saheeli doesn't seem a good fit(yet)
[quote from="dothack3355 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/new-card-discussion/754345-saheeli-rai?comment=14"]Two words. Thermo alchemist.[/quoteHonestly I don't see this being better than Chandra, the Face Burner in thermo-thing, both are great cards but I'm not sure Saheeli fits in the deck unless they print another fiery impulse, likely turn three I'm going to be playing my other tapped land such as Fumarole or Highland Lake and either burning something or leaving up counters... I think she's more or a sidboard card that maybe replaces 1negate and fiery impulse, but not many cards have been previewed yet so I could be wrong,
The deck only loses baby Jace ×2 and fiery impulse ×3 jace seems to switch to Chandra, mind sculpter, impulse at this point seems to turn into galvanic bombardment... Decks still awesome, but Saheeli doesn't seem a good fit(yet)
Saheeli will be good in tempo or aggro, if the proper shell comes together. She doesn't necessarily need to protect herself if she puts your opponent so far on the back foot that they can't afford to commit attacks toward her.
She could see play in a creature-heavy deck that goes
Turn 2 creature
Turn 3 Saheeli, +1 to ping and smooth out your next draw
Turn 4 haste creature (like Lathnu Hellion or something), -2 Saheeli to copy it and bash for a bunch of damage
Turn 5 creature or removal, -2 Saheeli again to copy your best creature and bash again
Or we could see her in a spell-heavy deck with Thing in the Ice where we land an early Thing in the Ice, monitor the opponent's plays with instants and sorceries, then flip Awoken Horror and copy it with Saheeli to get in 14 damage in a single turn. Combined with burn spells and pings from Saheeli's +1, we could just kill our opponent in a single flashy turn.
I can't say what the meta will look like post-rotation, but these are just some possibilities.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Do you mean that the wurmcoil is good with her to get some value out of it? Because you won't get those tokens, saheelis copy exiles itself eot.
It exiles at end of turn. I think the idea is to trade the token in combat or sacrifice it for value before end of turn and trigger its ability that way.
In the set itself there are also plenty of ETB triggered abilities e. g. on the gearhulks and the white-blue uncommon making a Mulldrifter impression. I think there will be plenty of small synergies adding up to enough options to make the ability worth it.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Literally the only reason to run this card in any format is her -2's synergy with Liquidmetal Coating.
She is bad, she has no synergy with herself and terribly weak abilities.
Scry 1 is on par with "Gain 2 life" and "Gravescry 2" as one of the worst non-Tibalt plus abilities in the history of magic. Yeah, I said it. Literally pick any random planeswalker, 3 CMC or not, and you'll find a plus that is better. She is one of EXTREMELY few that neither add cards to your hand nor impact the board in any way. As she has NO way to protect herself, her plus reads: End Your Turn. Destroy This Planeswalker, because you decided to spend 1UR to cast this silly card instead of Murdering your opponents creature." And her minus neither makes up for that nor impacts the board, nor does anything without another card, nor draws you cards, nor ...
She goes in NO deck. For starters, she is a two-color walker. Yeah, people talk about Liliana and Nissa. Aside from the fact that they simply have stronger pluses, minuses and ultimates, they can go in any green or black deck that isn't hard-aggro (and none are). Being a two-color walker eliminates that. She can only be run in UR and URx decks, and no URx wants her. Ashiok made the cut because a slow grindy walker was acceptable in those colors, and even though it was weak against aggro midrange was enough of the format that she would often lack uncontested and T4 a big green creature. Saheeli doesn't find herself in a similar niche for UR, which in this meta and with these decks can't waste a T3 (and gets far less benefit; a one turn 4-drop you have to pay mana for <<< a free 4-drop).
Aggro? You do NOT win aggro games by time-walking yourself and playing a "do-nothing" T3 planeswalker. At least Chandra closed out games and impacted the board far more as a flip-walker, and she was still barely run. And Saheeli's minus gets worse and worse when you are playing 2/1s and 3/2s instead of 6/6s and 6/5s. Completely does not fit into aggro in any form.
Midrange? Congrats, you died turn 4. You want to lose to aggro? Play a planeswalker that does nothing to board. Ever have fun skipping your turn with Narset? This is much worse; at least Narset lived through a turn of being useless. Narset got a 2.5 rating for limited from ChannelFireball, and this is almost strictly worse as a card. If your midrange strategy involves not interacting with your opponent and hoping to somehow randomly Heat Shimmer a Gearhulk despite that ... you are simply being unreasonably optimistic. Would you EVER play a Heat Shimmer in constructed? If anything this is WORSE, because it wants to land on the battlefield first which means giving up your crucial time to disrupt your opponent.
Control? She does not generate advantage. I repeat, she does nothing at all to generate card advantage. Card advantage she does not generate. Generate not, card advantage she does. 1UR, gain 4 life scry 1 is not a serious card. Heat Shimmer is not a serious card. Darksteel Pendant is not a serious card.
She is bad enough that even as a planeswalker I would have to already be deep in UR to consider running her. And to be clear, I'm talking in my sealed pool. She is not a standard playable card, she's a slightly weaker Sigiled Starfish for limited. It is a joke that she is a 2-color walker, that are supposed to be stronger than their 1-color competitors, when she is so much weaker than Liliana and Nissa it isn't even funny. The more I think of it, the more I almost feel insulted that she saw print as-is.
She clearly was a 2 CMC walker at some point in testing, as these abilities make sense for a 2 CMC walker that would have less need to protect herself or generate cards like a real planeswalker. As is she needs an ultra-specific deck that is not only UR, but UR with super value ETB effects or artifacts far stronger than what we have seen that can still manage to fit in a lot of removal (which has no native synergy with Saheeli at all) as well as cheap creatures to gum up the boards. I'll give you a hint: That deck doesn't exist.
At least she'll see looks in Modern for her combo, just as Narset saw some modern looks for her interaction with extra-turn spells. But as a weaker Narset she'll see exactly the same amount of standard play: Zero. The only reason she's at nearly $20 now is because people don't want to miss the next Liliana and generally are running high on Kaladesh, but with the Inventions and fastlands in the set she'll be a $5 or less planeswalker in the near future.
Unless I'm missing some insane Lupine Prototype/Fleetwheel Cruiser aggro deck I am extremely confidant she is simply a bad card. In general you can't say "Well Liliana is just a Weaken/Raise Dead hybrid and those are bad cards, so she is bad." You can't do that because there is hidden value in doing those things multiple times without using multiple cards and planning your deck around the board state they create. But when your repeated effects don't actually recoup that initial card, there is no such gain. Especially when those repeated effects don't help enable their own repetition. Too often this will be 1UR: Play 1/3 of Mystic Speculation.
Seriously, how did a 2-C walker with no card advantage or board impact make it to print? Was there a bet over at R&D that they could make a terrible 3 CMC walker?
Oh, and she's likely the reason the UR Izzet Steampunk Artifact Wonderland set doesn't have a UR Artifact-Matters legend. Just as a parting gift, not only is she bad but her very presence actually makes the set fail to meet fan expectations, like a random sweeper taking the place of Damnation in FTV: Annihilation literally made the product worse.
Everyone needs to cool their jets. She is a combo walker through and through. Her +1 filters your deck, -2 copies an artifact or creature that you need another for a combo, and her ult obviously says win the game with some weird ass combo of your choice. She won't belong in aggro, midrange, or control, she has one and only purpose, combo. Which makes sense as Red/Blue seem to be the only combo colors that Wizards accept for standard.
I think this gonna have to be a wait and see. Some people have compared her to Liliana but I see bit of a difference. Liliana came out in a set where all her abilities had potential due to the all the zombies and mechanics around those zombies. It was obvious of where Liliana was meant to go. It wasn't a matter (at least to me) if she had potential, it was a matter of HOW MUCH potential she had.
Saheeli is more difficult to see. Kaladesh is very artifact heavy but given her colors, IDK. She may be trash, she may be good, or she could be really great. I just get the feeling this is going to be a sink or swim scenario.
So the first Planeswalker is there.
& to be honest, she seems weak d:(
+1 for only Scry 1 & a random damage ? Should be at least Scry 2
-2 is more interesting. But seems only useful with ETB triggers & for an additional attack.
-7 is really nice with huge artifacts. Should be game ending.
what bothers me is that she can not defend herself at all & her abilities dont Combine either.
Really, the only Shell i can imagine her in is Aggro, where her +1 filters draws & adds additional damage & her -2 adds more attackers.
YEa, she Fails hard for me
So I think this you'll be good and commander and she is definitely competing for eternal formats with Dak.
Also and standard I think that she will pair good with the legendary creature that is Bluegreen that allows you to cascade all of your first spelled each turn
Temur will continue to be stong on the comeback train
When I get all steamed up here me shout Bite your head off suck your soul out
Everything else is gravy
She only costs 3 dude. It's a pretty good deal.
Jund
Kiki Chord
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Pauper:
Kuldotha Jeskai
she's pretty bad to protect herself, you're going to need a deck that can protect her.
that said... her +1 can prevent most planeswalkers from building loyalty and does that while doing a important card filter.
-2 might be very powerful, replicates ETBs, gives pseudo haste to a dude you just played (and leaves actual dude untapped and happy to block), can generate small ramp effects if you copy a mana rock and the utility goes on and on. Pretty powerful ability that will play very well in the deck you already need to have so she can be useful.
-7 is not being used... EVER. If you manage to keep a 3 mana walker for 5 turns without her taking damage and never needing to activate that -2 you should already have won because your opponent isn't doing a thing.
She's as powerful as the support for her is. Great utility walker for 3 mana, still I think she might be less powerful than Domri Rade or Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in a vacuum.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
She doesn't protect herself, and she doesn't generate any card advantage (unless you have some sick ETB trigger already in play). She also doesn't fit in an aggro deck. Every other 3-mana planeswalker can do one of those things.
I really like Saheeli Rai, but I don't see casting her on turn 3 to be a good play most of the time. It's her -2 that you want to focus on, and you probably need a Wurmcoil Engine in play before it's worth it. That said, there may be many more cards in this set that makes her worth playing. But I find it hard to imagine we'll get a 2-mana card that makes playing her on turn 3 worthwhile. And because of that, the fact that she costs 3 doesn't count for a whole lot.
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
The deck only loses baby Jace ×2 and fiery impulse ×3 jace seems to switch to Chandra, mind sculpter, impulse at this point seems to turn into galvanic bombardment... Decks still awesome, but Saheeli doesn't seem a good fit(yet)
The deck only loses baby Jace ×2 and fiery impulse ×3 jace seems to switch to Chandra, mind sculpter, impulse at this point seems to turn into galvanic bombardment... Decks still awesome, but Saheeli doesn't seem a good fit(yet)
She could see play in a creature-heavy deck that goes
Turn 2 creature
Turn 3 Saheeli, +1 to ping and smooth out your next draw
Turn 4 haste creature (like Lathnu Hellion or something), -2 Saheeli to copy it and bash for a bunch of damage
Turn 5 creature or removal, -2 Saheeli again to copy your best creature and bash again
Or we could see her in a spell-heavy deck with Thing in the Ice where we land an early Thing in the Ice, monitor the opponent's plays with instants and sorceries, then flip Awoken Horror and copy it with Saheeli to get in 14 damage in a single turn. Combined with burn spells and pings from Saheeli's +1, we could just kill our opponent in a single flashy turn.
I can't say what the meta will look like post-rotation, but these are just some possibilities.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
It exiles at end of turn. I think the idea is to trade the token in combat or sacrifice it for value before end of turn and trigger its ability that way.
In the set itself there are also plenty of ETB triggered abilities e. g. on the gearhulks and the white-blue uncommon making a Mulldrifter impression. I think there will be plenty of small synergies adding up to enough options to make the ability worth it.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
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Read up on Red Flags & NWO
She is bad, she has no synergy with herself and terribly weak abilities.
Scry 1 is on par with "Gain 2 life" and "Gravescry 2" as one of the worst non-Tibalt plus abilities in the history of magic. Yeah, I said it. Literally pick any random planeswalker, 3 CMC or not, and you'll find a plus that is better. She is one of EXTREMELY few that neither add cards to your hand nor impact the board in any way. As she has NO way to protect herself, her plus reads: End Your Turn. Destroy This Planeswalker, because you decided to spend 1UR to cast this silly card instead of Murdering your opponents creature." And her minus neither makes up for that nor impacts the board, nor does anything without another card, nor draws you cards, nor ...
She goes in NO deck. For starters, she is a two-color walker. Yeah, people talk about Liliana and Nissa. Aside from the fact that they simply have stronger pluses, minuses and ultimates, they can go in any green or black deck that isn't hard-aggro (and none are). Being a two-color walker eliminates that. She can only be run in UR and URx decks, and no URx wants her. Ashiok made the cut because a slow grindy walker was acceptable in those colors, and even though it was weak against aggro midrange was enough of the format that she would often lack uncontested and T4 a big green creature. Saheeli doesn't find herself in a similar niche for UR, which in this meta and with these decks can't waste a T3 (and gets far less benefit; a one turn 4-drop you have to pay mana for <<< a free 4-drop).
Aggro? You do NOT win aggro games by time-walking yourself and playing a "do-nothing" T3 planeswalker. At least Chandra closed out games and impacted the board far more as a flip-walker, and she was still barely run. And Saheeli's minus gets worse and worse when you are playing 2/1s and 3/2s instead of 6/6s and 6/5s. Completely does not fit into aggro in any form.
Midrange? Congrats, you died turn 4. You want to lose to aggro? Play a planeswalker that does nothing to board. Ever have fun skipping your turn with Narset? This is much worse; at least Narset lived through a turn of being useless. Narset got a 2.5 rating for limited from ChannelFireball, and this is almost strictly worse as a card. If your midrange strategy involves not interacting with your opponent and hoping to somehow randomly Heat Shimmer a Gearhulk despite that ... you are simply being unreasonably optimistic. Would you EVER play a Heat Shimmer in constructed? If anything this is WORSE, because it wants to land on the battlefield first which means giving up your crucial time to disrupt your opponent.
Control? She does not generate advantage. I repeat, she does nothing at all to generate card advantage. Card advantage she does not generate. Generate not, card advantage she does. 1UR, gain 4 life scry 1 is not a serious card. Heat Shimmer is not a serious card. Darksteel Pendant is not a serious card.
She is bad enough that even as a planeswalker I would have to already be deep in UR to consider running her. And to be clear, I'm talking in my sealed pool. She is not a standard playable card, she's a slightly weaker Sigiled Starfish for limited. It is a joke that she is a 2-color walker, that are supposed to be stronger than their 1-color competitors, when she is so much weaker than Liliana and Nissa it isn't even funny. The more I think of it, the more I almost feel insulted that she saw print as-is.
She clearly was a 2 CMC walker at some point in testing, as these abilities make sense for a 2 CMC walker that would have less need to protect herself or generate cards like a real planeswalker. As is she needs an ultra-specific deck that is not only UR, but UR with super value ETB effects or artifacts far stronger than what we have seen that can still manage to fit in a lot of removal (which has no native synergy with Saheeli at all) as well as cheap creatures to gum up the boards. I'll give you a hint: That deck doesn't exist.
At least she'll see looks in Modern for her combo, just as Narset saw some modern looks for her interaction with extra-turn spells. But as a weaker Narset she'll see exactly the same amount of standard play: Zero. The only reason she's at nearly $20 now is because people don't want to miss the next Liliana and generally are running high on Kaladesh, but with the Inventions and fastlands in the set she'll be a $5 or less planeswalker in the near future.
Unless I'm missing some insane Lupine Prototype/Fleetwheel Cruiser aggro deck I am extremely confidant she is simply a bad card. In general you can't say "Well Liliana is just a Weaken/Raise Dead hybrid and those are bad cards, so she is bad." You can't do that because there is hidden value in doing those things multiple times without using multiple cards and planning your deck around the board state they create. But when your repeated effects don't actually recoup that initial card, there is no such gain. Especially when those repeated effects don't help enable their own repetition. Too often this will be 1UR: Play 1/3 of Mystic Speculation.
Seriously, how did a 2-C walker with no card advantage or board impact make it to print? Was there a bet over at R&D that they could make a terrible 3 CMC walker?
Oh, and she's likely the reason the UR Izzet Steampunk Artifact Wonderland set doesn't have a UR Artifact-Matters legend. Just as a parting gift, not only is she bad but her very presence actually makes the set fail to meet fan expectations, like a random sweeper taking the place of Damnation in FTV: Annihilation literally made the product worse.
Rant out.
Saheeli is more difficult to see. Kaladesh is very artifact heavy but given her colors, IDK. She may be trash, she may be good, or she could be really great. I just get the feeling this is going to be a sink or swim scenario.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter