Right now my biggest issues with this set is that I think this missed an opportunity to reprint the "Inspire" mechanic from Theros. Untap matter creatures would have worked nicely with vehicles.
Yes, it will, and no is being pedantic that a Birds has a sword, that's not a design fail of the game. But when I gave to tell little Billy that his Sky Skiff can't attack me unless he uses the Crew ability, and he has no actual creatures in his deck just more Vehicles, he is going to be mad.
This isn't about enfranchised oldhead players, this is of course about newer, younger, & less informed folks. They are going to see the box, think its a creature, cause hey look, it has flying, it has trample, it must be a creature...
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Wanted -Zombie Foils and older expensive Zombie stuff. High Priority- Beta Z Master/ Int. Collector's Edition.
I hate Vehicles, both their concept and their design. Come on, cars in Magic: The Gathering?
But no male Angels because that's too much for a fantasy game.
I have no problems with male or female angels, so I don't really know why you say that to me.
I think he meant Wizards with that statement. In his opinion male angels shouldn't be that much of a no-go if cars are made for it. I don't really see the connection by the way, this is a aethersteampunk setting in which such a (commonly requested) mechanic makes sense. I don't see any particular need besides player demand (which doesn't seem to be high, sorry Jenrik) for male angels.
I like Vehicles as a mechanic, but I'm not sure how well they will play. I guess we will have to wait and see. Energy counters are an interesting mechanic, hope they found a way to reduce its seeming parasitism. Having most if not all energy related cards be enabler and consumer is a good first step. Fabricate is in my opinion quite necessary as a base mechanic and synergizes with the artifact theme and the vehicles. None of the mechanics seem to be bad per se.
I hate Vehicles, both their concept and their design. Come on, cars in Magic: The Gathering?
But no male Angels because that's too much for a fantasy game.
I have no problems with male or female angels, so I don't really know why you say that to me.
I think he meant Wizards with that statement. In his opinion male angels shouldn't be that much of a no-go if cars are made for it. I don't really see the connection by the way, this is a aethersteampunk setting in which such a (commonly requested) mechanic makes sense. I don't see any particular need besides player demand (which doesn't seem to be high, sorry Jenrik) for male angels.
I like Vehicles as a mechanic, but I'm not sure how well they will play. I guess we will have to wait and see. Energy counters are an interesting mechanic, hope they found a way to reduce its seeming parasitism. Having most if not all energy related cards be enabler and consumer is a good first step. Fabricate is in my opinion quite necessary as a base mechanic and synergizes with the artifact theme and the vehicles. None of the mechanics seem to be bad per se.
There isn't any real need for male angels, but there isn't any real obvious harm in making them, so it does seem like an odd thing to avoid.
And Energy counters don't seem that parasitic. Each card that uses them being able to generate energy seems like a good way to avoid it, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two that don't work that way.
Honestly, it's hitting a lot of Ravnica for me: Specifically the first set in the original Ravnica block, before Guildpact or Dissention. I don't think it'll be a bad set, but I think that it will run into the issue Rav did of wonderful flavor and good cards, but mostly useless mechanics that are either useful on one card (ie: Convoke) or totally worthless (ie: Radiance), with one that'll probably be format warping (ie: Dredge).
that's what it feels like to me. Great flavour but underwhelming mechanics.
I hate Vehicles, both their concept and their design. Come on, cars in Magic: The Gathering?
But no male Angels because that's too much for a fantasy game.
I have no problems with male or female angels, so I don't really know why you say that to me.
I think he meant Wizards with that statement. In his opinion male angels shouldn't be that much of a no-go if cars are made for it. I don't really see the connection by the way, this is a aethersteampunk setting in which such a (commonly requested) mechanic makes sense. I don't see any particular need besides player demand (which doesn't seem to be high, sorry Jenrik) for male angels.
I like Vehicles as a mechanic, but I'm not sure how well they will play. I guess we will have to wait and see. Energy counters are an interesting mechanic, hope they found a way to reduce its seeming parasitism. Having most if not all energy related cards be enabler and consumer is a good first step. Fabricate is in my opinion quite necessary as a base mechanic and synergizes with the artifact theme and the vehicles. None of the mechanics seem to be bad per se.
There isn't any real need for male angels, but there isn't any real obvious harm in making them, so it does seem like an odd thing to avoid.
And Energy counters don't seem that parasitic. Each card that uses them being able to generate energy seems like a good way to avoid it, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two that don't work that way.
Exactly. Angels are also the second most popular creature type. Sad to see so much new ground covered when a fantasy game has mechanical vehicles but can't have male angels or other awkwardly forbidden things.
The vehicle card template pisses me off. I understand they aren't Creatures. But only Creatures should get a Power/Toughness box. This is going to bite the butt for Wizards so hard Maro will shame himself on the next State of Design article.
This. This is going to cause confusion to not just newer player but experienced players as well. We've all been trained from the start that if you see a P/T box its a creature. Now you see it and think its a creature but its not. So much removal and burn is going to be aimed at these when there not creature its not even funny.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Right now my biggest issues with this set is that I think this missed an opportunity to reprint the "Inspire" mechanic from Theros. Untap matter creatures would have worked nicely with vehicles.
As far as the subject is concerned, I'm reserving judgment until I see more dwarves, Vehicles, Pilots... okay, more of every new mechanic in general. I'm putting money down on 'Dwarf tribal' being the same as 'tapping Dwarves does stuff', like Merfolk in Lorwyn.
The only good thing is that a Judge should allow a player to 'take back' the casting/targeting of the burn spell. Since it isn't a legal target, I mean. I'm not a judge, so, please don't take my word as law.
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Wanted -Zombie Foils and older expensive Zombie stuff. High Priority- Beta Z Master/ Int. Collector's Edition.
The worst part is, whenever mechanics are a flop, they seem to be in settings I enjoy. Ulgortha, Kamigawa, Kaladesh...
I don't think many blocks have universally appealing mechanics, but we still can return to them. Kaladesh should be fine, especially since it doesn't seem like any of the three mechanics are really bad. Vehicles might confuse people, but I think people will get used to them.
The vehicle card template pisses me off. I understand they aren't Creatures. But only Creatures should get a Power/Toughness box. This is going to bite the butt for Wizards so hard Maro will shame himself on the next State of Design article.
This. This is going to cause confusion to not just newer player but experienced players as well. We've all been trained from the start that if you see a P/T box its a creature. Now you see it and think its a creature but its not. So much removal and burn is going to be aimed at these when there not creature its not even funny.
This is just doomsaying. It's the same thing that happened with double-faced cards. You'll get used to it, and you'll get over it.
Disappointed by saheeli, pretty hyped otherwise. And if we look at it, how couldn't one be? This set has cool cards, wacky new mechanics, great flavor, vibrant quality art, enemy fastlands and most likely even more that I forgot. We'll see how the set goes on in the next days, but you can't say they did a poor job with this one, it feels incredibly fresh.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
So far the set looks like complete trash. Saheeli can't protect herself at all. She's worse than Tibalt. Vehicles are completely lame. I'd rather attack with my creatures then tap them to ride a car which will drive right into my opponent's removal spell. Instead of a reprint of Zendikar fetches, we get the enemy Scars of Mirrodin lands. Woo freakin hoo. And because like most good players I don't care about flavor, the flavor is not an excuse for trash cards. Also, look at Inventor's Fair. It has metalcraft! But noooooo too "confusing" for newbie players to have a returning mechanic. We've seen less than a quarter of the set and it already is confirmed how dumbed down it is.
The Supreme Verdict: Kaladesh is trash.
And I have a right to my opinion.
Enemy fastlands are a bigger deal to a lot of people than reprinting fetches. This reshapes a lot of modern manabases.
Literally your biggest complaint is not every card is an eternal staple?
The vehicle card template pisses me off. I understand they aren't Creatures. But only Creatures should get a Power/Toughness box. This is going to bite the butt for Wizards so hard Maro will shame himself on the next State of Design article.
This. This is going to cause confusion to not just newer player but experienced players as well. We've all been trained from the start that if you see a P/T box its a creature. Now you see it and think its a creature but its not. So much removal and burn is going to be aimed at these when there not creature its not even funny.
This is just doomsaying. It's the same thing that happened with double-faced cards. You'll get used to it, and you'll get over it.
This isn't remotely close to what players complained about for DFC's. Players complained that DFC's ruined drafting. DFC's didn't lead to confusion of board state due to portraying something they actually were not. DFC's state what they are in their states. Skin Invasion doesn't have a p/t box just because it can transform into a creature, it only gets that once it transforms into a creature. Also combat is going to be muddled since players have to note specifically which creatures are attacking and which ones are just tapped to crew a vehicle.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
So far the set looks like complete trash. Saheeli can't protect herself at all. She's worse than Tibalt. Vehicles are completely lame. I'd rather attack with my creatures then tap them to ride a car which will drive right into my opponent's removal spell. Instead of a reprint of Zendikar fetches, we get the enemy Scars of Mirrodin lands. Woo freakin hoo. And because like most good players I don't care about flavor, the flavor is not an excuse for trash cards. Also, look at Inventor's Fair. It has metalcraft! But noooooo too "confusing" for newbie players to have a returning mechanic. We've seen less than a quarter of the set and it already is confirmed how dumbed down it is.
The Supreme Verdict: Kaladesh is trash.
And I have a right to my opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion, yes, but you are not entitled to call it a supreme verdict nor can't we criticize it. And it's quite arrogant of you to call yourself a good player AND implying that all good players think like you do. Saheeli worse than Tibalt? Zendikar Fetches? Vehicles not your thing? I don't see any real objective criticism here. If you don't like the mechanics just say it. But it doesn't make the set bad.
I don't play competitively, but I think Saheeli will be fun. She is a three mana planeswalker; she scrys; her -2 gives me a copy of an elder deep fiend to tap permanents, then sac for emerge; if I need metal craft and am one artful at off, I can make a token; her ultimate grabs blightsteel in modern. Red has been known to remove pesky creatures that might try killing your planeswalkers, and blue can bounce or nerf them long enough to make use of her. Vehicles will allow me to make use of my theros tap creatures and shadowmoor untap creatures. The plane itself isn't regurgitated like the last two. All in all I am excited for this set.
Love the OP, thanks for sniping the inevitable Why don't we just have a sticky "Complain about new set" post every spoiler season, akin to the "complain about card prices" sections ?
Anyway, I love what I've seen so far. Finally a plane that has a positive, colorful vibe again. Feels like it's been since Lorwyn (though Bant counts in its own way). Not saying every set needs to be fluffy, but it's a nice change of pace after all the conflicts, apocalypse scenarios, etc.
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Modern
Affinity
UW Control
Commander
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Dragonlord Ojutai
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
The Ur-Dragon
I have often been critical of new sets. I fact I refuse to by any Eldritch Moon packs or draft that crap. And guess what I am excited as hell for Kaladesh. The new energy resource especially. It looks very flexible and it is rare we get an honest new resource to care about. Their last attempt, processors, was under powered and completely parasitic and had repetitively few cards in only one set. This looks like it will be given enough support to matter. Plus there isn't a lame eldrazi anywhere to be found. I can take or leave the other mechanics but when I seen energy part of me jumped for joy. I am extremely excited about this set.
My own thoughts given the spoilers we've seen is that Kaladesh is a set you want to pick your long term library cards out of like a hawk and bin as much of the draft and limited cards asap. Unlike Shadows over Innistrad block, which has mechanics that work with a common historical resource (the graveyard), Kaladesh works with completely new resources that bare some resemblance to things we know, but otherwise only synergize with Kaladesh itself. I'm making up a buy list right now for the cards I want as it's an artifact set and those are always special in my heart next to gothic horror.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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However I like battleships. So I want to use Skysovereign, Consul Flagship in a deck. They idea of my commander Lazav, Dimir Mastermind sitting in this and scheming sounds cool.
This isn't about enfranchised oldhead players, this is of course about newer, younger, & less informed folks. They are going to see the box, think its a creature, cause hey look, it has flying, it has trample, it must be a creature...
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
I have no problems with male or female angels, so I don't really know why you say that to me.
I think he meant Wizards with that statement. In his opinion male angels shouldn't be that much of a no-go if cars are made for it. I don't really see the connection by the way, this is a aether
steampunk setting in which such a (commonly requested) mechanic makes sense. I don't see any particular need besides player demand (which doesn't seem to be high, sorry Jenrik) for male angels.I like Vehicles as a mechanic, but I'm not sure how well they will play. I guess we will have to wait and see. Energy counters are an interesting mechanic, hope they found a way to reduce its seeming parasitism. Having most if not all energy related cards be enabler and consumer is a good first step. Fabricate is in my opinion quite necessary as a base mechanic and synergizes with the artifact theme and the vehicles. None of the mechanics seem to be bad per se.
Actually loking forward for this set, looks fun on limited!
There isn't any real need for male angels, but there isn't any real obvious harm in making them, so it does seem like an odd thing to avoid.
And Energy counters don't seem that parasitic. Each card that uses them being able to generate energy seems like a good way to avoid it, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two that don't work that way.
that's what it feels like to me. Great flavour but underwhelming mechanics.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
This. This is going to cause confusion to not just newer player but experienced players as well. We've all been trained from the start that if you see a P/T box its a creature. Now you see it and think its a creature but its not. So much removal and burn is going to be aimed at these when there not creature its not even funny.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
https://youtu.be/55stWuskD1E?t=1201
Bless you, GLaDOS.
As far as the subject is concerned, I'm reserving judgment until I see more dwarves, Vehicles, Pilots... okay, more of every new mechanic in general. I'm putting money down on 'Dwarf tribal' being the same as 'tapping Dwarves does stuff', like Merfolk in Lorwyn.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
I don't think many blocks have universally appealing mechanics, but we still can return to them. Kaladesh should be fine, especially since it doesn't seem like any of the three mechanics are really bad. Vehicles might confuse people, but I think people will get used to them.
i love me some Filigreed Familiar
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
This is just doomsaying. It's the same thing that happened with double-faced cards. You'll get used to it, and you'll get over it.
Enemy fastlands are a bigger deal to a lot of people than reprinting fetches. This reshapes a lot of modern manabases.
Literally your biggest complaint is not every card is an eternal staple?
This isn't remotely close to what players complained about for DFC's. Players complained that DFC's ruined drafting. DFC's didn't lead to confusion of board state due to portraying something they actually were not. DFC's state what they are in their states. Skin Invasion doesn't have a p/t box just because it can transform into a creature, it only gets that once it transforms into a creature. Also combat is going to be muddled since players have to note specifically which creatures are attacking and which ones are just tapped to crew a vehicle.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Not sure where this ranks yet. Have to see the whole set first. I like the energy mechanic so far.
You are entitled to your opinion, yes, but you are not entitled to call it a supreme verdict nor can't we criticize it. And it's quite arrogant of you to call yourself a good player AND implying that all good players think like you do. Saheeli worse than Tibalt? Zendikar Fetches? Vehicles not your thing? I don't see any real objective criticism here. If you don't like the mechanics just say it. But it doesn't make the set bad.
Anyway, I love what I've seen so far. Finally a plane that has a positive, colorful vibe again. Feels like it's been since Lorwyn (though Bant counts in its own way). Not saying every set needs to be fluffy, but it's a nice change of pace after all the conflicts, apocalypse scenarios, etc.
Affinity
UW Control
Commander
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Dragonlord Ojutai
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
The Ur-Dragon
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!