Why aren't more people discussing/geeking out about Stensia Innkeeper ? People have been complaining about WotC moving away from land destruction which favors ramp, but land destruction can definitely induce feel ads.
So Wizards is testing the waters with this land-freeze effect. Freeze effects are almost always blue, but shifting this to red caring about lands is brilliant in my opinion. It's a way for red to hate on lands without being too drastic, and if done right could lead to new lines of play for red.
What do you guys think of the mechanic? (And not the specific card, as it's pretty much the opposite of being pushed... pulled?)
I was pretty happy to set yet more design space opened for red. It needs it, and this is a cool way to do it. It also could use more 'opponents stuff enters tapped'
I think it is better than people give it credit for. Even on Innkeeper, following up a turn 3 Molten Rain / Stone Rain / Pillage / etc with this on turn 4 would be hard to come back from.
If we can't get cheap direct land destruction then I think this is worth exploring.
Very happy about this. I've been hoping for a while that Mana Short type effects would be colorshifted to blue, and this is the first step. It's a fine replacement for Stone Rain, and there's lots of flavorful ways to represent it: messing with the earth elementally, drying up the mana from a land, burning or salting it. Looking forward to seeing more this effect.
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The flavor of Stensia Innkeeper is wacky and awkward (she traps you in a room so you can't go outside and access mana from the land?), so I'm not a fan of this card, but I agree with dustmop that there are some smoother flavor-ways to bring in the mechanic. I like the "burning and salting" the land idea as a way to temporarily dry up the mana. Flavor-wise, in general I would like to see more depiction on cards of the connection between the land and casting spells. It seems like I only ever see mana being drawn from the land on green cards, but every wizard/planeswalker/mage is supposed to be calling forth mana from the land, aren't they?
Does anyone have other ideas for new directions for red, either colorshifting or completely new mechanics?
I didn't see this card before but I love this. I've had a replacement mechanic for Red's old land destruction since BFZ (It was reffered to as "wasting" a land and it meant that you flipped your opponent's land face down for some time and during that time it could only produce colorless.).
I just hope that this can be expanded on. I love that Red has been getting more attention on its other abilities rather than strictly burn recently.
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actually, I was just talking about this card in the new cards discussion best 10 commons thread. speaking with someone about calling the mechanic "drought" or something like it. if they push this as a mechanic, the way they push the "act on impulse" exile the top card thing onto at least one rare or mythic per set, it would see a lot of play. just imagine abbot of the keral keep (2\1 prowess for 2) and put this effect on and drop the act on impulse, it would see even more play than the actual abbot did. that would be bonkers good
Stensia Innkeeper could be better but she is actually weaker than her predecessors in this department. Predecessors? Well right now I would rather have a Mana Leech or a Mana Skimmer. If she was a 2/2 for 1R and had this same ability as she does now she would actually be more interesting. This is a fault on WOTC for being conservative with how strong they make a card as they should have pushed this innkeeper. Also those two leeches I mentioned? They are only rated 2.5/5 stars as they are considered weaker than actual land destruction.
This mechanic has potential in red as red has been historically all about anti-ramp in MTG's history. But it needs a bigger push to be stronger. As the Innkeeper is marginally better than a Demolish if only because of the body it puts down instead of destroying a land.
I think it was the right call to cost it cautiously since it's a test. If it works out fine, we might see cheaper land tap effects in the future.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
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If she was a 2/2 for 1R and had this same ability as she does now she would actually be more interesting.
She'd be pants on head insane printed that way at common, especially in limited. A bear that also denies mana like that would be a pretty pushed card; I don't know if they'd even print that at rare. Think about what that could do in Standard or even Modern with Eerie Interlude (and Ghostway in Modern).
If she was a 2/2 for 1R and had this same ability as she does now she would actually be more interesting.
She'd be pants on head insane printed that way at common, especially in limited. A bear that also denies mana like that would be a pretty pushed card; I don't know if they'd even print that at rare. Think about what that could do in Standard or even Modern with Eerie Interlude (and Ghostway in Modern).
And Mana Skimmer was good in limited. Bad outside of it due its mana cost.
Think of Stensia Innkeeper this way: In the type of deck you would play this in, this is a Demolish + a free Hill Giant. Considering you are going to be playing other disruption spells along with it this is a fair deal. If Stone Rain also gave you a 1/1 Elemental token it would be one of the best spells of all time. A disruption spell that also provides a clock for your opponent isn't a bad deal at all.
Bonus points if you can recast / flicker / reanimate the Innkeeper. The card isn't pushed but the mechanic shows a lot of promise even in this form.
its not being discussed because its kind of *****.
its not really all that new of a design space given how many red cards blow up lands, or keep you from playing lands, or punish you for playing lands, or turn your lands into mountains.
at 4 mana even as a 3/3, its still *****. even at a casual table, would you run this which just delays for a turn (maybe) and eats removal (or gets ignored), or just blow up a land and prevent them from doing something instead? if it were under 3 mana maybe, if it had some other effect, maybe. considering petravark barely sees play casually (forgetting competitively), this won't either. so don't expect something great here.
i expect to be flamed because how dare you say a card is bad.
its not being discussed because its kind of *****.
its not really all that new of a design space given how many red cards blow up lands, or keep you from playing lands, or punish you for playing lands, or turn your lands into mountains.
at 4 mana even as a 3/3, its still *****. even at a casual table, would you run this which just delays for a turn (maybe) and eats removal (or gets ignored), or just blow up a land and prevent them from doing something instead? if it were under 3 mana maybe, if it had some other effect, maybe. considering petravark barely sees play casually (forgetting competitively), this won't either. so don't expect something great here.
i expect to be flamed because how dare you say a card is bad.
Blowing up lands/turning them into mountains/etc is a lot more permanent than tapping down, which means Wizards can put tap effects on more cards at better CMC (theoretically).
Re: the card, I noted it was obviously not competitive, which is why I focused in the potential for that mechanic. Being a less permanent form of mana denial means they should he able to use it a little more freely.
its not being discussed because its kind of *****.
its not really all that new of a design space given how many red cards blow up lands, or keep you from playing lands, or punish you for playing lands, or turn your lands into mountains.
at 4 mana even as a 3/3, its still *****. even at a casual table, would you run this which just delays for a turn (maybe) and eats removal (or gets ignored), or just blow up a land and prevent them from doing something instead? if it were under 3 mana maybe, if it had some other effect, maybe. considering petravark barely sees play casually (forgetting competitively), this won't either. so don't expect something great here.
i expect to be flamed because how dare you say a card is bad.
Blowing up lands/turning them into mountains/etc is a lot more permanent than tapping down, which means Wizards can put tap effects on more cards at better CMC (theoretically).
Re: the card, I noted it was obviously not competitive, which is why I focused in the potential for that mechanic. Being a less permanent form of mana denial means they should he able to use it a little more freely.
that its not competitive, by definition, is why no one is talking about it.
when a competitive card with this type of effect is printed, then we'll be talking about it. until then we can file it under 'what if'
like what if wotc printed an all beeble set, or a dinosaur legend. it doesn't matter until it happens.
its not being discussed because its kind of *****.
its not really all that new of a design space given how many red cards blow up lands, or keep you from playing lands, or punish you for playing lands, or turn your lands into mountains.
at 4 mana even as a 3/3, its still *****. even at a casual table, would you run this which just delays for a turn (maybe) and eats removal (or gets ignored), or just blow up a land and prevent them from doing something instead? if it were under 3 mana maybe, if it had some other effect, maybe. considering petravark barely sees play casually (forgetting competitively), this won't either. so don't expect something great here.
i expect to be flamed because how dare you say a card is bad.
Blowing up lands/turning them into mountains/etc is a lot more permanent than tapping down, which means Wizards can put tap effects on more cards at better CMC (theoretically).
Re: the card, I noted it was obviously not competitive, which is why I focused in the potential for that mechanic. Being a less permanent form of mana denial means they should he able to use it a little more freely.
that its not competitive, by definition, is why no one is talking about it.
when a competitive card with this type of effect is printed, then we'll be talking about it. until then we can file it under 'what if'
like what if wotc printed an all beeble set, or a dinosaur legend. it doesn't matter until it happens.
You're not wrong, but then again people talked about a werewolf legend for a long time, years actually, and one didn't exist. People badly wanted to see it, some to the point of whining "why don't I have it yet!?" Wizards eventually responded by not only giving them said legend, but a planeswalker too. You see, WotC is a business first and foremost and i guarantee have a market research team. If no one ever talks about this card, even though it has an interesting mechanic, just because it's not competitive, then wizards may never have a reason to print a competitive version. Act on impulse was terrible, because it cost 3 and no one played it, but they tried again and put the ability on a Chandra. They saw people only played the Chandra for the exile ability. Viola, it ends up being printed on a mythic or rare red creature in nearly every set since that happened. Some of us want to see this land freeze mechanic become a thing, because we are sick of red sucking and being ***** on every set. So if we talk about this, maybe, just MAYBE some of those market research people will say "hey, they kinda like this idea, let's put it on a playable card and see what happens"
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So Wizards is testing the waters with this land-freeze effect. Freeze effects are almost always blue, but shifting this to red caring about lands is brilliant in my opinion. It's a way for red to hate on lands without being too drastic, and if done right could lead to new lines of play for red.
What do you guys think of the mechanic? (And not the specific card, as it's pretty much the opposite of being pushed... pulled?)
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If we can't get cheap direct land destruction then I think this is worth exploring.
that Blue is clearly the smartest student in class,
and Red is clearly the most industrious cheater in class.
I'll agree that Red needs new things,
but I'd *love* to see these new things come
from any color that isn't Blue.
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Does anyone have other ideas for new directions for red, either colorshifting or completely new mechanics?
I didn't see this card before but I love this. I've had a replacement mechanic for Red's old land destruction since BFZ (It was reffered to as "wasting" a land and it meant that you flipped your opponent's land face down for some time and during that time it could only produce colorless.).
I just hope that this can be expanded on. I love that Red has been getting more attention on its other abilities rather than strictly burn recently.
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I'm quite certain red didn't get reach from blue.
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As Red only has 4 cards at all with reach we shouldn't really use that as any kind of example (Yes I know MaRo says they're starting with Red Reach).
This mechanic has potential in red as red has been historically all about anti-ramp in MTG's history. But it needs a bigger push to be stronger. As the Innkeeper is marginally better than a Demolish if only because of the body it puts down instead of destroying a land.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
She'd be pants on head insane printed that way at common, especially in limited. A bear that also denies mana like that would be a pretty pushed card; I don't know if they'd even print that at rare. Think about what that could do in Standard or even Modern with Eerie Interlude (and Ghostway in Modern).
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if you are looking for the opposite of pushed, as it has to do with the game of magic, I believe the correct term is "red card". seems to always fit
And Mana Skimmer was good in limited. Bad outside of it due its mana cost.
Bonus points if you can recast / flicker / reanimate the Innkeeper. The card isn't pushed but the mechanic shows a lot of promise even in this form.
its not really all that new of a design space given how many red cards blow up lands, or keep you from playing lands, or punish you for playing lands, or turn your lands into mountains.
at 4 mana even as a 3/3, its still *****. even at a casual table, would you run this which just delays for a turn (maybe) and eats removal (or gets ignored), or just blow up a land and prevent them from doing something instead? if it were under 3 mana maybe, if it had some other effect, maybe. considering petravark barely sees play casually (forgetting competitively), this won't either. so don't expect something great here.
i expect to be flamed because how dare you say a card is bad.
Blowing up lands/turning them into mountains/etc is a lot more permanent than tapping down, which means Wizards can put tap effects on more cards at better CMC (theoretically).
Re: the card, I noted it was obviously not competitive, which is why I focused in the potential for that mechanic. Being a less permanent form of mana denial means they should he able to use it a little more freely.
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that its not competitive, by definition, is why no one is talking about it.
when a competitive card with this type of effect is printed, then we'll be talking about it. until then we can file it under 'what if'
like what if wotc printed an all beeble set, or a dinosaur legend. it doesn't matter until it happens.
You're not wrong, but then again people talked about a werewolf legend for a long time, years actually, and one didn't exist. People badly wanted to see it, some to the point of whining "why don't I have it yet!?" Wizards eventually responded by not only giving them said legend, but a planeswalker too. You see, WotC is a business first and foremost and i guarantee have a market research team. If no one ever talks about this card, even though it has an interesting mechanic, just because it's not competitive, then wizards may never have a reason to print a competitive version. Act on impulse was terrible, because it cost 3 and no one played it, but they tried again and put the ability on a Chandra. They saw people only played the Chandra for the exile ability. Viola, it ends up being printed on a mythic or rare red creature in nearly every set since that happened. Some of us want to see this land freeze mechanic become a thing, because we are sick of red sucking and being ***** on every set. So if we talk about this, maybe, just MAYBE some of those market research people will say "hey, they kinda like this idea, let's put it on a playable card and see what happens"