We could really see a Bant Spirits deck rise right now, because the tribe has so much power and this one + Spectral Shepherd is simply gas! I'll try and get a set as soon as possible.
It is indeed really weird that they used the old templating for this card. In fact it might have been an oversight.
Honestly I'm not convinced it's that amazing for bant CoCo. Part of why CoCo is good is because it has no timing restriction. I don't think it's worth waiting to for a spell to maybe hit this off of CoCo so quite often it will be the worst creature you could hit. It is redeemed by having flash so you can represent this or coco and then cast the other so it probably still warrants a spot, but I don't think it will be the best card in the deck. I think it will have a much bigger impact on Spirit tribal, or even WU humans.
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We could really see a Bant Spirits deck rise right now, because the tribe has so much power and this one + Spectral Shepherd is simply gas! I'll try and get a set as soon as possible.
It is indeed really weird that they used the old templating for this card. In fact it might have been an oversight.
It's not an oversight, it's just that the new wording doesn't work for spells, or at least that making it work for spells would involve a whole lot of messy rules tweaks. Hypothetically, if they printed a card with "exile target spell until this leaves the battlefield", aka the new template, they'd have to define rules for what it means to put a spell back onto the stack from exile. Since typically something entering a zone is considered a new object, it would be difficult to preserve information such as targets, X costs, other additional costs paid, Converge count and other such things across the two castings, so a lot of those would get reset to zero as a default. Using "May cast without paying the mana cost" relates it back to something most players already know, and avoids trickiness with targetting.
The "give your opponent a free spell" part really bothers me.
But it wasn't free, they still paid for it.
It's free when they get it back. So they get both the spell and their tempo back. Killing SQ completely negates what it did. Except in a few corner cases. There's no 3/* or 4/* spirit if my memory's right. Most of them are 2 power, so there's little reason to target something else. Especially if the spell you get back is removal, so you still remove two targets.
The "give your opponent a free spell" part really bothers me.
But it wasn't free, they still paid for it.
It's free when they get it back. So they get both the spell and their tempo back. Killing SQ completely negates what it did. Except in a few corner cases. There's no 3/* or 4/* spirit if my memory's right. Most of them are 2 power, so there's little reason to target something else. Especially if the spell you get back is removal, so you still remove two targets.
The tempo your opponent gets back when s/he kills Spell Queller is more devastating than you might think at first blush. Kill Spell Queller with an instant and that Spell Queller can't even stop counterspells. (At least Delay hosed counterspells.)
The "give your opponent a free spell" part really bothers me.
But it wasn't free, they still paid for it.
It's free when they get it back. So they get both the spell and their tempo back. Killing SQ completely negates what it did. Except in a few corner cases. There's no 3/* or 4/* spirit if my memory's right. Most of them are 2 power, so there's little reason to target something else. Especially if the spell you get back is removal, so you still remove two targets.
So the opponent invested the original cost of the spell, and a kill spell and its cost, to return the original spell, and not at the time they cast it, which is presumably when that original spell was desired most. Meanwhile, you've been ahead this entire time by delaying that spell and having a 2/2 flyer on the board. It's a win IMO, especially if that original spell returning with no targets, or at a crappy time for them making resolving it meaningless or less beneficial.
The "give your opponent a free spell" part really bothers me.
But it wasn't free, they still paid for it.
It's free when they get it back. So they get both the spell and their tempo back. Killing SQ completely negates what it did. Except in a few corner cases. There's no 3/* or 4/* spirit if my memory's right. Most of them are 2 power, so there's little reason to target something else. Especially if the spell you get back is removal, so you still remove two targets.
So the opponent invested the original cost of the spell, and a kill spell and its cost, to return the original spell, and not at the time they cast it, which is presumably when that original spell was desired most. Meanwhile, you've been ahead this entire time by delaying that spell and having a 2/2 flyer on the board. It's a win IMO, especially if that original spell returning with no targets, or at a crappy time for them making resolving it meaningless or less beneficial.
You may be ahead, or you may not. Thought-knot seer gives the opponent a card back. But you took away their best spell at that moment in time, which they are unlikely to get back with the draw. SQ doesn't do that. You lose mana and a card when it's played, then when it dies, you get that card back for free. And unless your opponent is stupid, he/she will kill SQ when that spell will be the most beneficial.
I think we can agree that the situations where the opponent cannot possibly benefit from the spell they get back is extremely unlikely. If it's a removal spell with no target, it means you have no board position. If it was a discard spell with no target, you're probably top decking etc.
With the two creatures in play Displace them in response to opponent's spell. They return. Spell Queller's trigger exiles the spell then Reclaimer's trigger processes the spell to return Displace. Then the next time Spell Queller is displaced there is no spell exiled for opponent to cast free.
I think the stacking and timing of triggers can be done yes? Are Displace and the opponent's spell where they need to be in time to be targeted / processed by Reclaimer?
With the two creatures in play Displace them in response to opponent's spell. They return. Spell Queller's trigger exiles the spell then Reclaimer's trigger processes the spell to return Displace. Then the next time Spell Queller is displaced there is no spell exiled for opponent to cast free.
I think the stacking and timing of triggers can be done yes? Are Displace and the opponent's spell where they need to be in time to be targeted / processed by Reclaimer?
I'd probably use something other than reclaimer for that. Also, there'S already a spell i exile so you don't need to blink SQ.
If you put SQ's ability on the stack last, it will resolve first and the spell will indeed be in exile though.
I think people forget the fact it doesn't have to be your opponent. You go cast company an it gets hit with a counterspell than in response you play spell queller targeting YOUR company spell an if that resolves you basically have a 2/3 flyer that when it either dies, gets exiled, or flickered etc. you get to cast that company for free. Being able to cast that free company an than another company could just end games lol. Is like pseudo flashback. Its not unreasonable for this combo to happen either in the late game. I mean this works for any card thats 4 cost an under.
This seems like one of the most busted cards they could print for bant company and might push it to just being better then bant humans
Exiling any spell with this is such a huge swing + if you hit it off CoCo and exile an opponents spell I just don't see a way they can win.
I think this might be top 3 if not the best card in the set for standard.
It is indeed really weird that they used the old templating for this card. In fact it might have been an oversight.
with either spectral shepherd or eldrazi displacer this card is basically a counterspell with buyback for 5 mana or 6.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Note that the trigger is not optional, so it doesn't actually combo with Displacer (unless you add some processors into the mix).
Ah yes indeed, tx
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
It's free when they get it back. So they get both the spell and their tempo back. Killing SQ completely negates what it did. Except in a few corner cases. There's no 3/* or 4/* spirit if my memory's right. Most of them are 2 power, so there's little reason to target something else. Especially if the spell you get back is removal, so you still remove two targets.
The tempo your opponent gets back when s/he kills Spell Queller is more devastating than you might think at first blush. Kill Spell Queller with an instant and that Spell Queller can't even stop counterspells. (At least Delay hosed counterspells.)
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
You may be ahead, or you may not. Thought-knot seer gives the opponent a card back. But you took away their best spell at that moment in time, which they are unlikely to get back with the draw. SQ doesn't do that. You lose mana and a card when it's played, then when it dies, you get that card back for free. And unless your opponent is stupid, he/she will kill SQ when that spell will be the most beneficial.
I think we can agree that the situations where the opponent cannot possibly benefit from the spell they get back is extremely unlikely. If it's a removal spell with no target, it means you have no board position. If it was a discard spell with no target, you're probably top decking etc.
With the two creatures in play Displace them in response to opponent's spell. They return. Spell Queller's trigger exiles the spell then Reclaimer's trigger processes the spell to return Displace. Then the next time Spell Queller is displaced there is no spell exiled for opponent to cast free.
I think the stacking and timing of triggers can be done yes? Are Displace and the opponent's spell where they need to be in time to be targeted / processed by Reclaimer?
I'd probably use something other than reclaimer for that. Also, there'S already a spell i exile so you don't need to blink SQ.
If you put SQ's ability on the stack last, it will resolve first and the spell will indeed be in exile though.
Custom Set
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If it was a 2/2 maybe - but there are so many removals that being 2/3 just narrowly escapes.