I love this guy. Delirium is kind of hard to achieve early, so he`ll be 2/2 a lot of the time, but the filtering is just insane in a deck that`s packing enough removal to let him connect. I think he might be modern playable in the right deck.
Please use this thread to discuss uses for the card, not to complain about its rarity. I think we all agree that it should have been a rare, no need to rile each other up any more over it.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
for standard:
I have no clue, don't have enough money to play that format.
for Legacy:
I want to try this in my Shardless deck. Triggering delirium is no problem (and it's not a big deal if you don't have it asap I think) and this plays GREAT with Shardless Agent, Sylvan Library and Brainstorm. Legacy also doesn't have that many blockers to plow through. I think it can be really good here.
for Modern:
I think it's an interesting card but not sure whether it is good enough.
I don't think this cuts it in my Abzan midrange deck or in a Jund deck. These decks get delirium too slowly and most decks can reliably get out a T3 blocker to stop this thing. I guess he is most useful vs decks that don't play to the board quickly like tron and various combo decks. This thing can keep the disruption flowing. But on the other hand it might do this too slowly. Best case scenario is drop this T2, swing T3 and trigger ability digging for something, T4 draw what you "scried" to the top. This seems mighty slow. At least in Legacy I can play brainstorm or shardless after combat to get that hymn to tourach on T3. It is a great topdeck though, which is an important requirement for a creature in a BGx deck.
I doubt dredge wants this as it turns on spot removal and can't be recursed from the yard, but I'm not an expert on the deck.
I think if this will be heavily played in modern it'll be in a new dedicated delirium deck.
I'd love to try this in a sultai midrange delirium deck but whether that will ever be good enough seems very, very doubtfull. This deck enables delirium very easily and is the grindiest of the BGx flavors but struggles with aggro decks like zoo, burn, merfolk,.. because of its crappy removal options (no path, no bolt). Gnarlwood Dryad should help against the likes of zoo but I doubt that will be enough.
A straight up BG delirium deck might be interesting as well. But enablers like Grisly Salvage are probably too slow. I suppose a Jund deck with faithless looting could get this to work.
Not nearly as good as it looks. It looks like wizards tried to shift delirium somewhat towards aggro with cheap enablers and creatures and it just doesn't work.
A bear is a terrible place to be in this standard. People laughed at stormkirk mystic because he would rarely give a pseudo draw, and this is just as bad in the early game.
Basically any humans play stops him from attacking. Inspector into Thalia's lieutenant, most of the two drops with first strike. Sylvan freaking advocate. Practically every three drop.
Zombie token. Any other bear. Removal. The dream of connecting early in the game is just that: a dream. Any other creature can stonewall him, making the trample trinket text. He's no lotleth troll, let alone voice of resurgence. Going for way too much for a guy goinginto a deck that doesn't exist yet that is a vanilla bear most of the time.
As a 4/4 late in the game, he's better. But not obscenely better. Just better. He'll get in some attacks at this point, but he can still be stonewalled by larger creatures.
I think this guy is good. I'm not sure about Standard because I don't play it. I think this guy is Modern playable but the problem is that if you want him for the card advantage, just play Bob. If you want him for the body, just play Goyf. That's his barrier to entry, why not just play something that is going to be better at each individual thing he does. Trample I think is what sets this guy over the edge honestly. If you play him over Bob its because of the better body. If you play it over Goyf its because of the Evasion + card advantage.
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A land in graveyard is easy, instant is easy, sorcery is pretty easy depending on how many 1cc discard spells you're running.
So as long as you have a decent creature concentration it should be a 4/4 pretty often the first time it connects. Liliana's plus can also chuck a spare card if needed.
With delerium he wins combat with kalitas, tramples over tokens unlike goyf, smooths the draws
I think this guy is Modern playable but the problem is that if you want him for the card advantage, just play Bob. If you want him for the body, just play Goyf. That's his barrier to entry, why not just play something that is going to be better at each individual thing he does.
Well... I completely agree, but you can only run 4 Bobs and 4 Goyfs. Grym is the perfect middle ground - card advantage, although only virtual card advantage, and that isn't comparable to Bob in power level, but stapled onto a body that isn't quite as big as Goyf, and can't reliably come down as fatty in the first three or four turns, but is still a 4/4 for two mana. You get a mash-up, a flexible middle ground. He should be great alongside them. He even has some synergy with them, kind of - he gets big from the same thing that grows Goyf, and he makes Bob less painful.
I can also see him considered over Bob, but next to Goyf of course, in Delver/Grow decks. Those decks excel in getting attackers through, so making him connect shouldn't be a problem, and hitting for 4 over Bobs 2 should make a huge difference in playability because you want to win with the lowest number of connects possible.
So a buddy jammed a couple in his modern Jund deck and it plays very well. Pretty much Jund grinds you into a top decking war and with this guy on the field he just wins. It made his goyfs bigger, it made his Bob's hit exactly what he wanted, and its trample was relevant because I couldn't toss snappys or cliques in front of it. It's out of bolt range fairly fast and dealing 4 damage a swing is tough. I'm going to go ahead and say this card is made for Jund.
So a buddy jammed a couple in his modern Jund deck and it plays very well. Pretty much Jund grinds you into a top decking war and with this guy on the field he just wins. It made his goyfs bigger, it made his Bob's hit exactly what he wanted, and its trample was relevant because I couldn't toss snappys or cliques in front of it. It's out of bolt range fairly fast and dealing 4 damage a swing is tough. I'm going to go ahead and say this card is made for Jund.
Out of sheer curiosity, can you get your buddy's list for us? How many flayers is he running? What did he cut for them? Jund just seems like such a tight squeeze, I would think a straight BG deck would be the answer. But of course, I play Grixis, so I'm not very well versed on the various BGx decks in modern.
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Standard
Meh
Modern BUWEsper ControlWUB BRUGrixis DelverURB WRBGKiki ChordGBRW WBGAbzan MidrangeGBW BRGJundGRB
Legacy UBRGrixis DelverRBU
Commander
Also meh
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I love this guy. Delirium is kind of hard to achieve early, so he`ll be 2/2 a lot of the time, but the filtering is just insane in a deck that`s packing enough removal to let him connect. I think he might be modern playable in the right deck.
Please use this thread to discuss uses for the card, not to complain about its rarity. I think we all agree that it should have been a rare, no need to rile each other up any more over it.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I have no clue, don't have enough money to play that format.
for Legacy:
I want to try this in my Shardless deck. Triggering delirium is no problem (and it's not a big deal if you don't have it asap I think) and this plays GREAT with Shardless Agent, Sylvan Library and Brainstorm. Legacy also doesn't have that many blockers to plow through. I think it can be really good here.
for Modern:
I think it's an interesting card but not sure whether it is good enough.
I don't think this cuts it in my Abzan midrange deck or in a Jund deck. These decks get delirium too slowly and most decks can reliably get out a T3 blocker to stop this thing. I guess he is most useful vs decks that don't play to the board quickly like tron and various combo decks. This thing can keep the disruption flowing. But on the other hand it might do this too slowly. Best case scenario is drop this T2, swing T3 and trigger ability digging for something, T4 draw what you "scried" to the top. This seems mighty slow. At least in Legacy I can play brainstorm or shardless after combat to get that hymn to tourach on T3. It is a great topdeck though, which is an important requirement for a creature in a BGx deck.
I doubt dredge wants this as it turns on spot removal and can't be recursed from the yard, but I'm not an expert on the deck.
I think if this will be heavily played in modern it'll be in a new dedicated delirium deck.
I'd love to try this in a sultai midrange delirium deck but whether that will ever be good enough seems very, very doubtfull. This deck enables delirium very easily and is the grindiest of the BGx flavors but struggles with aggro decks like zoo, burn, merfolk,.. because of its crappy removal options (no path, no bolt). Gnarlwood Dryad should help against the likes of zoo but I doubt that will be enough.
A straight up BG delirium deck might be interesting as well. But enablers like Grisly Salvage are probably too slow. I suppose a Jund deck with faithless looting could get this to work.
A bear is a terrible place to be in this standard. People laughed at stormkirk mystic because he would rarely give a pseudo draw, and this is just as bad in the early game.
Basically any humans play stops him from attacking. Inspector into Thalia's lieutenant, most of the two drops with first strike. Sylvan freaking advocate. Practically every three drop.
Zombie token. Any other bear. Removal. The dream of connecting early in the game is just that: a dream. Any other creature can stonewall him, making the trample trinket text. He's no lotleth troll, let alone voice of resurgence. Going for way too much for a guy goinginto a deck that doesn't exist yet that is a vanilla bear most of the time.
As a 4/4 late in the game, he's better. But not obscenely better. Just better. He'll get in some attacks at this point, but he can still be stonewalled by larger creatures.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
Meh
Modern
BUWEsper ControlWUB
BRUGrixis DelverURB
WRBGKiki ChordGBRW
WBGAbzan MidrangeGBW
BRGJundGRB
Legacy
UBRGrixis DelverRBU
Commander
Also meh
So as long as you have a decent creature concentration it should be a 4/4 pretty often the first time it connects. Liliana's plus can also chuck a spare card if needed.
With delerium he wins combat with kalitas, tramples over tokens unlike goyf, smooths the draws
I can also see him considered over Bob, but next to Goyf of course, in Delver/Grow decks. Those decks excel in getting attackers through, so making him connect shouldn't be a problem, and hitting for 4 over Bobs 2 should make a huge difference in playability because you want to win with the lowest number of connects possible.
Yeah I gotcha Just clarifying for the sake of it I guess.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Out of sheer curiosity, can you get your buddy's list for us? How many flayers is he running? What did he cut for them? Jund just seems like such a tight squeeze, I would think a straight BG deck would be the answer. But of course, I play Grixis, so I'm not very well versed on the various BGx decks in modern.
Meh
Modern
BUWEsper ControlWUB
BRUGrixis DelverURB
WRBGKiki ChordGBRW
WBGAbzan MidrangeGBW
BRGJundGRB
Legacy
UBRGrixis DelverRBU
Commander
Also meh