And don't even get me started with the "too broken in limited draft to make it a rare" argument. If that were the case, then don't even put it into the card pool. So many other cards could've taken that spot but it was given instead to Worldgorger Dragon. Thanks, WotC!
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It would be better at rare so that Wizards could put an expensive card at mythic if it was a card they weren't willing to put at rare. It could have been Blood Moon or Imperial Recruiter.
Just how many mythic rares have you pulled? And how many of these are foil?
In all my carrer (3 years of magic packs) I've pulled only a Drana, Liberator of Malakir foil, so shut up! We can't do nothing!
Well you see, obviously there must be some worthless junk Mythics in a $10 MSRP low print run set. It's quite simple really, Hasbro has our best intentions with this product. It's for the good of the game. And limited balance and such, or something. You'd have to be a complete scrub to not see it, it's so clear. The reason is, because *farts*
It would be better at rare so that Wizards could put an expensive card at mythic if it was a card they weren't willing to put at rare. It could have been Blood Moon or Imperial Recruiter.
So are you saying that you'd rather open twice as many worldgorger dragons?
Each box is limited to a few mythics. If every mythic was like Worldgorger level I pretty sure the spikes would love it. But Wizards won't care how we like it.
Remember: There's someone out there somewhere that pulled a foil Archangel's Light. That guy still sobs himself to sleep every night.
Even still, I'd rather have a foil Worldgorger Dragon rather than no foil at all.
It would be better at rare so that Wizards could put an expensive card at mythic if it was a card they weren't willing to put at rare. It could have been Blood Moon or Imperial Recruiter.
So are you saying that you'd rather open twice as many worldgorger dragons?
Yes, I'd rather have a chance of opening a mythic that's actually worth something. There are enough rares that are worth $20 or less that I would feel less bad about opening a Worldgorger Dragon as my rare. If I opened it as my mythic then I'd be pissed off that it could have been a Force of Will or any other high priced mythic.
So are you saying that you'd rather open twice as many worldgorger dragons?
That's so clearly not the point he was making that I can't help but feel like you're being intentionally obtuse.
Well then what point was he making? He clearly doesn't want Worldgorger dragon in his pack, but his contempt of the "too broken in limited draft to make it a rare" argument seems to indicate that he wouldn't mind so much if it were in the rare slot.
The "too powerful for limited" is the reason people have for cards like Control Magic be rare now instead of uncommon and Sensei's Divining Top being rare, etc. (though curiously, Counterspell is common - joy!). However, if the purpose of it becoming mythic is because having it be more likely to appear as a rare will be somehow warping, then it should've just been excluded, period. Imperial Recruiter could have easily taken up that mythic spot. That's my point. I don't want to spend $10 a booster to crack open a Worldgorger Dragon at mythic rare. This is a limited run product with a ridiculous price tag - even more so for drafting. Who's gonna choose 1st pick that card when drafting? No one.
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It would be better at rare so that Wizards could put an expensive card at mythic if it was a card they weren't willing to put at rare. It could have been Blood Moon or Imperial Recruiter.
I rather looks on the bright side. They could print wasteland at mythic and print Worldgorger Dragon at rare. Thanks god.
There's the current (as of a couple of minutes ago at least) expected value of packs of EMA. The EV is way higher than MSRP (and will of course go down as more cards are spoiled) but while Worldgorger Dragon is a bum mythic (Balance is worse), the EV is crazy high. SOME card has to be the worst, and as cards go it's kind of fun.
So are you saying that you'd rather open twice as many worldgorger dragons?
That's so clearly not the point he was making that I can't help but feel like you're being intentionally obtuse.
Well then what point was he making? He clearly doesn't want Worldgorger dragon in his pack, but his contempt of the "too broken in limited draft to make it a rare" argument seems to indicate that he wouldn't mind so much if it were in the rare slot.
Those are completely contradictory notions.
He obviously doesn't want Worldgorger Dragons at Mythic rarity. Do you honestly not understand the desire to have a card that is valuable at the extra-rare rarity level? If there was some burning desire to include Worldgorger Dragon it could have been done at rare while replacing the mythic slot with something that actually deserves it. Or better yet, leave the Dragon out entirely as the card is readily available, in low demand, and doesn't even contribute to an interesting Limited format. It's like if they had decided to bump up Llanowar Elves to rare and you responded with "well at least now you'll open fewer Llanowar Elves!"
But we all know the truth. Wizards needed to include a few dud mythics because humans are suckers for gambling and the all-or-nothing thrill of opening packs entices people to open more.
So are you saying that you'd rather open twice as many worldgorger dragons?
That's so clearly not the point he was making that I can't help but feel like you're being intentionally obtuse.
Well then what point was he making? He clearly doesn't want Worldgorger dragon in his pack, but his contempt of the "too broken in limited draft to make it a rare" argument seems to indicate that he wouldn't mind so much if it were in the rare slot.
Those are completely contradictory notions.
He obviously doesn't want Worldgorger Dragons at Mythic rarity. Do you honestly not understand the desire to have a card that is valuable at the extra-rare rarity level? If there was some burning desire to include Worldgorger Dragon it could have been done at rare while replacing the mythic slot with something that actually deserves it. Or better yet, leave the Dragon out entirely as the card is readily available, in low demand, and doesn't even contribute to an interesting Limited format. It's like if they had decided to bump up Llanowar Elves to rare and you responded with "well at least now you'll open fewer Llanowar Elves!"
But we all know the truth. Wizards needed to include a few dud mythics because humans are suckers for gambling and the all-or-nothing thrill of opening packs entices people to open more.
I can understand why people might not want it to be printed at all at any rarity, but when you also include talk about prices and rarity, it really doesn't make sense.
If you spend a lot of money on a pack, you want that pack to have a large expected value. If you swapped the rarities of say... wasteland and worldgorger dragon, the the expected value goes down, not up.
Some people seem to be operating under the assumption that swapping the rarities of a crappy mythic and a good rare make the EV go up, but that's just plain wrong.
The dragon should not have been printed in this set at all. To have this at the same level of rarity as Jace, the Mind Sculptor is insulting, no matter the argument. If you wanna make a limited format with these kinds of cards then put it in a supplemental product like Commander, where the actual printed rarity of a card means nothing.
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I got a foil Comet Storm in MM15, and a foil Ryusi from MM13. It happens. Yeah, it sucks, but it does happen. If every card was a big money card, then vendors would have jacked up the prices even harder faster.
If vendors jacked up prices, people would just buy it elsewhere. If a store sells it at $15 a pack, which is 150% MSRP; then I'd just go to the store that sells it for cheaper or get it online. It happens with the FTV; I simply avoid buying them at stores where they inflate the price and buy them at stores that respect the MSRP. If most people did this than vendors wouldn't spike prices on products with an disclosed and established MSRP because then they wouldn't sell the product and lose money in the long run.
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The dragon should not have been printed in this set at all. To have this at the same level of rarity as Jace, the Mind Sculptor is insulting, no matter the argument. If you wanna make a limited format with these kinds of cards then put it in a supplemental product like Commander, where the actual printed rarity of a card means nothing.
This doesn't make sense. Limited format = sealed or draft. And in these formats the rarity does matter. The rarity determines how often the cards are opened. Which directly affects the draft/sealed pool.
If vendors jacked up prices, people would just buy it elsewhere. If a store sells it at $15 a pack, which is 150% MSRP; then I'd just go to the store that sells it for cheaper or get it online. It happens with the FTV; I simply avoid buying them at stores where they inflate the price and buy them at stores that respect the MSRP. If most people did this than vendors wouldn't spike prices on products with an disclosed and established MSRP because then they wouldn't sell the product and lose money in the long run.
If the value of the cards in the pack far exceed the msrp of the packs, then a couple of things happen:
They sell at msrp, then, given the limited supply, they are immediately sold out (see problem with True-name Nemesis Commander deck)
They sell at higher than msrp, which some people will justify and buy anyway (see FTV)
They don't bother selling the packs and crack open the packs themselves and sell singles, since based on the pack EV they would profit more doing this
Remember this is not being distributed at big box stores.
Yeah, my mistake for saying limited format instead of constructed format - thanks for catching that.
As for the argument of justifying the rarity with it's probability occurence in limited, just don't print the card for the set and leave that slot for another card.
If WotC were to make an Eternal Masters 2, then I could accept these decisions and they could probbaly reprint all these great cards again like they do with Tarmagoyf in Modern Masters amd then add other cards to support other archetypes.
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There's the current (as of a couple of minutes ago at least) expected value of packs of EMA. The EV is way higher than MSRP (and will of course go down as more cards are spoiled) but while Worldgorger Dragon is a bum mythic (Balance is worse), the EV is crazy high. SOME card has to be the worst, and as cards go it's kind of fun.
As of right now, only 2 mythics aren't really worth the price of admission (based on MSRP), only 1 has yet to be spoiled. There's a 1/120 chance of getting a particular mythic in a pack, so even if the final mythic is a turd, you're only going to see one of the "*****ty" mythics in every 40 packs. Or, put another way one every 2 boxes. That's pretty damn good. As of right now, the average rare card is worth more than MSRP. And even just your uncommon and common load (together) add up to over MSRP (this will CERTAINLY go down - especially as reprints lower the prices of some of these).
But here's another thing: Worldgorger Dragon is not worth a lot from a financial perspective - but for the people who might WANT that card, there may be plenty of people who wouldn't go on the internet and buy it. It should at least be decent trade bait. Balance, at a lower price, is still pretty freaking cool and is awesome in black border.
Most of the rares that aren't worth much will be worth more than expected as they are seeing their first foil printing (or first outside of extremely limited products) and so will have a premium on them. And there are at least 2 uncommons so far that are worth more than MSRP right out of the gate. I can see how people are worried that this will suck - but really I think its looking really nice.
But here's another thing: Worldgorger Dragon is not worth a lot from a financial perspective - but for the people who might WANT that card, there may be plenty of people who wouldn't go on the internet and buy it. It should at least be decent trade bait.
Not really likely, Worldgorger is pretty much only played in Vintage and if you're in Vintage a $2 rare probably won't be much of a hindrance. Worldgorger makes up about 0.0004% of the price of the deck. I've had a Worldgorger in my binder for years. No one wanted it before, no one wants it now.
Most of the rares that aren't worth much will be worth more than expected as they are seeing their first foil printing (or first outside of extremely limited products) and so will have a premium on them. And there are at least 2 uncommons so far that are worth more than MSRP right out of the gate. I can see how people are worried that this will suck - but really I think its looking really nice.
You can currently prebuy any spoiled EMA uncommon at SCG for less than $10. The most expensive one is Cabal Therapy at $8. I wouldn't be surprised if this fell further.
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I guess I just opened this thread to see if anyone else shares my frustration over the possibility of paying $10 a booster of EMN and pulling out a Worldgorger Dragon. Imagine now pulling out a foil Worldgorger Dragon. Not a foil Mana Crypt or a foil Jace, the Mind Sculptor. No, but a foil Worldgorger Dragon.
And don't even get me started with the "too broken in limited draft to make it a rare" argument. If that were the case, then don't even put it into the card pool. So many other cards could've taken that spot but it was given instead to Worldgorger Dragon. Thanks, WotC!
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That way, you'll be pulling it twice as often.
It would be better at rare so that Wizards could put an expensive card at mythic if it was a card they weren't willing to put at rare. It could have been Blood Moon or Imperial Recruiter.
In all my carrer (3 years of magic packs) I've pulled only a Drana, Liberator of Malakir foil, so shut up! We can't do nothing!
Modern: UB Zombie hunt UB - WR Boros tokens WR - BGW Treefolk tribal BGW
Commander: UR Mizzix, a Storm of spells UR (Decklist)
So are you saying that you'd rather open twice as many worldgorger dragons?
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Even still, I'd rather have a foil Worldgorger Dragon rather than no foil at all.
Yes, I'd rather have a chance of opening a mythic that's actually worth something. There are enough rares that are worth $20 or less that I would feel less bad about opening a Worldgorger Dragon as my rare. If I opened it as my mythic then I'd be pissed off that it could have been a Force of Will or any other high priced mythic.
That's so clearly not the point he was making that I can't help but feel like you're being intentionally obtuse.
Well, I disagree. I actually don't want to open more worldgorger dragons. I want to open fewer of them. That way, I get more of the good cards.
Well then what point was he making? He clearly doesn't want Worldgorger dragon in his pack, but his contempt of the "too broken in limited draft to make it a rare" argument seems to indicate that he wouldn't mind so much if it were in the rare slot.
Those are completely contradictory notions.
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I rather looks on the bright side. They could print wasteland at mythic and print Worldgorger Dragon at rare. Thanks god.
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There's the current (as of a couple of minutes ago at least) expected value of packs of EMA. The EV is way higher than MSRP (and will of course go down as more cards are spoiled) but while Worldgorger Dragon is a bum mythic (Balance is worse), the EV is crazy high. SOME card has to be the worst, and as cards go it's kind of fun.
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He obviously doesn't want Worldgorger Dragons at Mythic rarity. Do you honestly not understand the desire to have a card that is valuable at the extra-rare rarity level? If there was some burning desire to include Worldgorger Dragon it could have been done at rare while replacing the mythic slot with something that actually deserves it. Or better yet, leave the Dragon out entirely as the card is readily available, in low demand, and doesn't even contribute to an interesting Limited format. It's like if they had decided to bump up Llanowar Elves to rare and you responded with "well at least now you'll open fewer Llanowar Elves!"
But we all know the truth. Wizards needed to include a few dud mythics because humans are suckers for gambling and the all-or-nothing thrill of opening packs entices people to open more.
And just as importantly, you'd be getting a presumably mythic-worthy card that is currently rare at mythic rates instead.
I can understand why people might not want it to be printed at all at any rarity, but when you also include talk about prices and rarity, it really doesn't make sense.
If you spend a lot of money on a pack, you want that pack to have a large expected value. If you swapped the rarities of say... wasteland and worldgorger dragon, the the expected value goes down, not up.
Some people seem to be operating under the assumption that swapping the rarities of a crappy mythic and a good rare make the EV go up, but that's just plain wrong.
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My YouTube Channel:
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BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
If the value of the cards in the pack far exceed the msrp of the packs, then a couple of things happen:
As for the argument of justifying the rarity with it's probability occurence in limited, just don't print the card for the set and leave that slot for another card.
If WotC were to make an Eternal Masters 2, then I could accept these decisions and they could probbaly reprint all these great cards again like they do with Tarmagoyf in Modern Masters amd then add other cards to support other archetypes.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
As of right now, only 2 mythics aren't really worth the price of admission (based on MSRP), only 1 has yet to be spoiled. There's a 1/120 chance of getting a particular mythic in a pack, so even if the final mythic is a turd, you're only going to see one of the "*****ty" mythics in every 40 packs. Or, put another way one every 2 boxes. That's pretty damn good. As of right now, the average rare card is worth more than MSRP. And even just your uncommon and common load (together) add up to over MSRP (this will CERTAINLY go down - especially as reprints lower the prices of some of these).
But here's another thing: Worldgorger Dragon is not worth a lot from a financial perspective - but for the people who might WANT that card, there may be plenty of people who wouldn't go on the internet and buy it. It should at least be decent trade bait. Balance, at a lower price, is still pretty freaking cool and is awesome in black border.
Most of the rares that aren't worth much will be worth more than expected as they are seeing their first foil printing (or first outside of extremely limited products) and so will have a premium on them. And there are at least 2 uncommons so far that are worth more than MSRP right out of the gate. I can see how people are worried that this will suck - but really I think its looking really nice.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
Not really likely, Worldgorger is pretty much only played in Vintage and if you're in Vintage a $2 rare probably won't be much of a hindrance. Worldgorger makes up about 0.0004% of the price of the deck. I've had a Worldgorger in my binder for years. No one wanted it before, no one wants it now.
You can currently prebuy any spoiled EMA uncommon at SCG for less than $10. The most expensive one is Cabal Therapy at $8. I wouldn't be surprised if this fell further.