As we all know the commons are the defining feature of limited, its useful to get an idea of how good all of the commons are. Please go through the cards and select the cards that you think will be good in limited. Images are in the spoiler below. A justification for the poll format is found beneath that.
I've made these threads before for previous sets, and someone always comes along and wants to argue about the poll itself. I have no interest in doing so, so I am attempting to head off debate with this passage. The typical argument against this poll format amounts to complaining that 'good' is poorly defined, that it isn't obviously clear what it means to be 'good in limited'. What the argument fails to realize is that the indeterminacy of the definition of 'good' is a feature, not a flaw. Ultimately, this poll asks each person who takes it to separate out the cards into two sets, with cards in the 'good' set being better in limited than the cards belonging to the not 'good' set. Because each person has a different definition of good, we end up with many unique set partitions giving us information on the relative playability of each card individually. If, on the other hand, 'good' was well defined and understood by everyone, or the poll question was rephrased as to remove the indeterminacy, we would all end up making equivalent or virtually identical set partitions giving us little to no information on how the cards within each set compare. In other words, we would all agree that Eldrazi Skyspawner and Clutch of Currents are both good, but would have no idea of whether or not clutch is better than Skyspawner.
Links to the other Limited Ratings threads will/can be found below...
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
The 4/1 (with pseudo flash) and the 5/2 in decks with things ways to punch through is what RU and RW seem to be all about doing.
Remove a blocker.
+1/+0 and flying
+1/+1 and flying
Tap two blockers and investigate.
Tap one blocker and investigate.
Tap a blocker for two turns.
Indestructible every turn.
+1/+1 and double strike.
Deal damage equal to power to a blocker. (and then attack)
Gain control of a blocker.
Remove all blockers without flying.
All the normal GetIn spells, but even besides that, it just naturally doesn't get stopped by the 4-toughness blockers of the format, either by trading to get them off of the board, or by simply just making them unviable blockers.
4/1 + one of the flying auras + +1/+1 and double strike: 13 damage from one combat, threatening to do 6 the following turn. That's from 3 cards. And the creature can be dropped into play on endstep with madness. And it can be dropped with madness as a surprise 4/1 blocker. It does nearly everything you want.
The Madness +2/+2 aura is probably going to be similarly underrated. If you can combat trick it, it's going to be insane.
The 4/1 (with pseudo flash) and the 5/2 in decks with things ways to punch through is what RU and RW seem to be all about doing.
Remove a blocker.
+1/+0 and flying
+1/+1 and flying
Tap two blockers and investigate.
Tap one blocker and investigate.
Tap a blocker for two turns.
Indestructible every turn.
+1/+1 and double strike.
Deal damage equal to power to a blocker. (and then attack)
Gain control of a blocker.
Remove all blockers without flying.
All the normal GetIn spells, but even besides that, it just naturally doesn't get stopped by the 4-toughness blockers of the format, either by trading to get them off of the board, or by simply just making them unviable blockers.
4/1 + one of the flying auras + +1/+1 and double strike: 13 damage from one combat, threatening to do 6 the following turn. That's from 3 cards. And the creature can be dropped into play on endstep with madness. And it can be dropped with madness as a surprise 4/1 blocker. It does nearly everything you want.
The Madness +2/+2 aura is probably going to be similarly underrated. If you can combat trick it, it's going to be insane.
If you have all these tools. Realisticly, most mid size creatures, like howlpack wolf would do the job. Without the drawback of dying to dual shot. The fact that it requires support at all is a drawback in itself. A case can be made for any card to be good if you have cards X and Y along with it.
If you have all these tools. Realisticly, most mid size creatures, like howlpack wolf would do the job. Without the drawback of dying to dual shot. The fact that it requires support at all is a drawback in itself. A case can be made for any card to be good if you have cards X and Y along with it.
This is true. The good enablers are the ones that are harder to interchange/replace.
To some degree, I still think 4/1 is more valuable in the vacuum than 2/3 or 3/2 if you're trying to attack in this set, though I suppose that still depends on the actual matchup.
The OP's question is which red commons are good. Seems everyone agrees Fiery Temper is good - but that's not even close to the end of the discussion. It's not.
If you have all these tools. Realisticly, most mid size creatures, like howlpack wolf would do the job. Without the drawback of dying to dual shot. The fact that it requires support at all is a drawback in itself. A case can be made for any card to be good if you have cards X and Y along with it.
This is true. The good enablers are the ones that are harder to interchange/replace.
To some degree, I still think 4/1 is more valuable in the vacuum than 2/3 or 3/2 if you're trying to attack in this set, though I suppose that still depends on the actual matchup.
Voldaren duelist and magmatic chasm are both common. So you might be able to pull it off if you really wanted to focus your deck on it. However, it's not very a fast strategy. But it could catch opponents that hickup between turn 2-3 or 3-4. Rush of adrenalin gives it trample, but only brings one extra point of toughness. Without your support cards, you'll be on the defensive though, which red isn't very good at usually. But sanguinary mage changes the status quo. And Magmatic chasm isn't a card that people will pick often. So you can pick them up late easily.
The 2/3 stat isn't the do or die stat that it has been in other limited environments full of 2 drops. (Not a lot of 2/2s this time around) But it's important against tokens (Both zombies and devils, so you can block either without loss). But a 4 mana 2/3 is a lot less desirable.
In the early game, Ember-Eye Wolf is a turn-2 Monastery Swiftspear without any prowess tricks. By the middle of the game, it is at least a 3/2 with the possibility of being larger if backed up by some "wolves matter" cards like Howlpack Resurgence.
If you can back it up with support like Ashmouth Blade or Haunted Cloak--or, ideally, *both* of them like I had in the last game from last night--then Gatstaf Arsonists/Gatstaf Ravagers is a wonderfully aggressive card. 6/5 menace? Sounds good, even without all the extra buffs I had given it.
After playing in the prerelease. Don't underestimate Ember-Eye Wolf. Although the card seems mediocre, it basically always trades and is very easy on your curve while providing some serious tempo.
I've made these threads before for previous sets, and someone always comes along and wants to argue about the poll itself. I have no interest in doing so, so I am attempting to head off debate with this passage. The typical argument against this poll format amounts to complaining that 'good' is poorly defined, that it isn't obviously clear what it means to be 'good in limited'. What the argument fails to realize is that the indeterminacy of the definition of 'good' is a feature, not a flaw. Ultimately, this poll asks each person who takes it to separate out the cards into two sets, with cards in the 'good' set being better in limited than the cards belonging to the not 'good' set. Because each person has a different definition of good, we end up with many unique set partitions giving us information on the relative playability of each card individually. If, on the other hand, 'good' was well defined and understood by everyone, or the poll question was rephrased as to remove the indeterminacy, we would all end up making equivalent or virtually identical set partitions giving us little to no information on how the cards within each set compare. In other words, we would all agree that Eldrazi Skyspawner and Clutch of Currents are both good, but would have no idea of whether or not clutch is better than Skyspawner.
Links to the other Limited Ratings threads will/can be found below...
If you have any comments about or corrections to the poll, please let me know.
- Manite
The 4/1 (with pseudo flash) and the 5/2 in decks with things ways to punch through is what RU and RW seem to be all about doing.
Remove a blocker.
+1/+0 and flying
+1/+1 and flying
Tap two blockers and investigate.
Tap one blocker and investigate.
Tap a blocker for two turns.
Indestructible every turn.
+1/+1 and double strike.
Deal damage equal to power to a blocker. (and then attack)
Gain control of a blocker.
Remove all blockers without flying.
All the normal GetIn spells, but even besides that, it just naturally doesn't get stopped by the 4-toughness blockers of the format, either by trading to get them off of the board, or by simply just making them unviable blockers.
4/1 + one of the flying auras + +1/+1 and double strike: 13 damage from one combat, threatening to do 6 the following turn. That's from 3 cards. And the creature can be dropped into play on endstep with madness. And it can be dropped with madness as a surprise 4/1 blocker. It does nearly everything you want.
The Madness +2/+2 aura is probably going to be similarly underrated. If you can combat trick it, it's going to be insane.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
If you have all these tools. Realisticly, most mid size creatures, like howlpack wolf would do the job. Without the drawback of dying to dual shot. The fact that it requires support at all is a drawback in itself. A case can be made for any card to be good if you have cards X and Y along with it.
To some degree, I still think 4/1 is more valuable in the vacuum than 2/3 or 3/2 if you're trying to attack in this set, though I suppose that still depends on the actual matchup.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
The OP's question is which red commons are good. Seems everyone agrees Fiery Temper is good - but that's not even close to the end of the discussion. It's not.
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsVoldaren duelist and magmatic chasm are both common. So you might be able to pull it off if you really wanted to focus your deck on it. However, it's not very a fast strategy. But it could catch opponents that hickup between turn 2-3 or 3-4. Rush of adrenalin gives it trample, but only brings one extra point of toughness. Without your support cards, you'll be on the defensive though, which red isn't very good at usually. But sanguinary mage changes the status quo. And Magmatic chasm isn't a card that people will pick often. So you can pick them up late easily.
The 2/3 stat isn't the do or die stat that it has been in other limited environments full of 2 drops. (Not a lot of 2/2s this time around) But it's important against tokens (Both zombies and devils, so you can block either without loss). But a 4 mana 2/3 is a lot less desirable.
In the early game, Ember-Eye Wolf is a turn-2 Monastery Swiftspear without any prowess tricks. By the middle of the game, it is at least a 3/2 with the possibility of being larger if backed up by some "wolves matter" cards like Howlpack Resurgence.
If you can back it up with support like Ashmouth Blade or Haunted Cloak--or, ideally, *both* of them like I had in the last game from last night--then Gatstaf Arsonists/Gatstaf Ravagers is a wonderfully aggressive card. 6/5 menace? Sounds good, even without all the extra buffs I had given it.