I believe this is one of the best cards spoiled so far in the set and from what I've seen everyone is talking about Sin Prodder and not the better 3 drop spoiled today.
Lets look at what the card actually does, investigate for playing a land. This is by far the easiest way to get clues into play that we have seen so far without having to dump mana or jump through any hoops. All you have to do is play magic and these triggers happen. Not only does it get bigger by crackling those clues but your drawing a card or multiple cards if this guy isn't killed.
Although it would be broken with fetchlands, without them it is still a strong 3 drop that will see a ton of play in human tribe and even in non human decks especially Collected Company decks. You still have access to Evolving Wilds which you might want to play for other cards like Matter Reshaper in collected company.
I want to see what others think of this card and am I just overvaluing how good this card will be in standard.
I guess Tamiyo's Journal doesn't exist. This is on curve and once the journal comes out, you will be swinging for 6/5 turn 5. Add that with all the other early clue cards and you have a Bant Clues deck. I'm making one and I'm gonna make that archetype and name it in standard.
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"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
I guess Tamiyo's Journal doesn't exist. This is on curve and once the journal comes out, you will be swinging for 6/5 turn 5. Add that with all the other early clue cards and you have a Bant Clues deck. I'm making one and I'm gonna make that archetype and name it in standard.
Not if I make my Mystery Machine deck first.
EDIT:
Ulvenwald mysteries seems like a solid addition. Tamiyo's journal gives 3 1/1's...
The best part about all these clue cards is that they actually get better in multiples.
I guess Tamiyo's Journal doesn't exist. This is on curve and once the journal comes out, you will be swinging for 6/5 turn 5. Add that with all the other early clue cards and you have a Bant Clues deck. I'm making one and I'm gonna make that archetype and name it in standard.
I think Tamiyo's Journal will see some amount of play in a very control heavy style deck that draws a bunch of cards and eventually tutors for its kill condition. I just don't think that these two cards go into the same type of deck since they aren't trying to do the same thing.
I'm surprised to see so little chatter, and what little discussion there is seems to be preoccupied with the Clue mechanic. By all means, enjoy your theme decks, but stockpiling clues by pairing this with even slower, less impactful cards would emphasize this card's weaknesses rather than compensate for them. If Tamiyo's Journal sees any constructed play, it will be in control sideboards. Speaking of control vs control sideboarding, Seer's Sundial saw some fringe play way back when, and I think that bodes well for Tireless Tracker.
The strengths of Tireless Tracker are many. It's self-contained, so you don't need to build around it. Just run efficiently costed, impactful stuff. As a source of card advantage it could not be more flexible. You can harvest at your convenience, as an instant - even after it's dead. If your opponent is holding an answer, you still come out way ahead just by following up with a land, which cannot be disrupted. And it starts out with a significant body before growing into a potential finisher.
This is a very strong card, and I'll be disappointed if Standard is too fast for it to see maindeck play. At the very least, it will be an attractive sideboard option.
Real shame this will never see play with the fetch lands. You'd be able to play it on turn three, follow up with turn 4 fetch, Crack for two clues, sac both to draw two cards, then attack with a 5/4. Would have been great in standard
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying tireless tracker is bad without fetchlands, but it is a lot worse. As is, I still expect it to see play in CoCo decks. Also, this card won't see play with Tamayo's Journal, they just don't belong in the same decks. None of the clue synergies we've seen are strong enough to consider putting them in the same decks.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I believe this is one of the best cards spoiled so far in the set and from what I've seen everyone is talking about Sin Prodder and not the better 3 drop spoiled today.
Lets look at what the card actually does, investigate for playing a land. This is by far the easiest way to get clues into play that we have seen so far without having to dump mana or jump through any hoops. All you have to do is play magic and these triggers happen. Not only does it get bigger by crackling those clues but your drawing a card or multiple cards if this guy isn't killed.
Although it would be broken with fetchlands, without them it is still a strong 3 drop that will see a ton of play in human tribe and even in non human decks especially Collected Company decks. You still have access to Evolving Wilds which you might want to play for other cards like Matter Reshaper in collected company.
I want to see what others think of this card and am I just overvaluing how good this card will be in standard.
I consider Sin prodder better. No setup required. No mana to invest and it's a threat right now. This doesn't have menace to deal good damage by itself even if nothing goes right. Even late game, this guy provides less value unless youy already have a bunch of clues in play
I consider Sin prodder better. No setup required. No mana to invest and it's a threat right now. This doesn't have menace to deal good damage by itself even if nothing goes right. Even late game, this guy provides less value unless youy already have a bunch of clues in play
I think you're totally wrong; playing lands does not constitute setup. Nor do you need a lot of clues to get value out of her; the first clue you sac makes her a 4/3, which is comparable to a 3/2 Menace. Every land drop you make guarantees a card and a pump, unlike Sin Prodder, who can't guarantee damage or cards consistently. But let's not also let this discussion sidetrack into talking about that devil.
Tracker isn't going to be great in aggro decks, because the card advantage is slow. But a midrange deck that wants to ramp and grind the game out will be very happy to have a card that not only turns lands into more cards, but also can be boosted into a game ending threat by itself. If there's a deck in Standard that wants to cast Explosive Vegetation, casting that the turn after Tracker nets you 3 clues. Even without whatever you're ramping into, that lets you draw 3 next turn and attack with a 6/5. For a 3 drop, that's a lot of late game potential and a lot of flexibility.
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DCI Level 2 Judge
If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
I consider Sin prodder better. No setup required. No mana to invest and it's a threat right now. This doesn't have menace to deal good damage by itself even if nothing goes right. Even late game, this guy provides less value unless youy already have a bunch of clues in play
I think people will be surprised by how adequate Tireless Tracker is on the offensive. Don't underestimate the threat of activation.
Suppose you cast her on turn three and subsequently hit your fourth land drop. Your opponent has to block as if she were a 4/3, even if you have better things to do than crack the Clue.
Tireless Tracker also fills in for a four drop in your curve rather nicely. Just follow up with a land, and then drop another land on turn five before you attack. Now she's an implied 5/4.
As you can see, this card doesn't require any further investment to attack well. Having clues is enough to make blocking difficult. This threat of activation dynamic also makes her better in multiples, since you can potentially hold off on cracking Clues until your second copy hits the board. And let's take a moment to admire how well this card works in multiples.
This is not to say that Tireless Tracker is an aggressive card. As others have rightly theorized, she seems most at home in midrange. But as always, whether you play aggressively or defensively depends on the matchup. Against an aggressive opponent, Tireless Tracker allows you to sit back and try to win through card advantage - assuming you can stabilize. When you're the beatdown, she hits rather hard for a three drop - especially one that also functions as a strictly superior Seer's Sundial, a card that only control decks fear. In fact, if this card somehow survives against a control deck, you and your opponent might not know who the beatdown is anymore. Against combo though, she'd better solve that mystery in a hurry.
I like Sin Prodder, but it belongs on the aggressive side of the spectrum because it works best when your opponent is under pressure. A more subtle reason that these cards won't be competing for the same slot in midrange is that Tireless Tracker plays better against removal. If you drop a land after casting Tireless Tracker, you're ahead. If your devil gets dealt with, it's parity.
This card is obviously quite good. I'm not surprised it's seeing Standard play. It's definitely more of a threat than Sin Prodder, which is quite meh. Cards like that come along all the time, people get really hyped, and then it has no impact because it's inconsistent. Tracker is a card advantage engine and a finisher in itself. I'd probably even run this in Commander.
Sorry if this question is misplaced or sounds silly: if I'm not mistsking if you play Tireless Tracker turn 4, you'll have priority to play a land. The land will trigger Tracker's ability and the opponent can respond to it by killing Tracker. The question is: do you still get a clue or not?
Thanks!
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I believe this is one of the best cards spoiled so far in the set and from what I've seen everyone is talking about Sin Prodder and not the better 3 drop spoiled today.
Lets look at what the card actually does, investigate for playing a land. This is by far the easiest way to get clues into play that we have seen so far without having to dump mana or jump through any hoops. All you have to do is play magic and these triggers happen. Not only does it get bigger by crackling those clues but your drawing a card or multiple cards if this guy isn't killed.
Although it would be broken with fetchlands, without them it is still a strong 3 drop that will see a ton of play in human tribe and even in non human decks especially Collected Company decks. You still have access to Evolving Wilds which you might want to play for other cards like Matter Reshaper in collected company.
I want to see what others think of this card and am I just overvaluing how good this card will be in standard.
Not if I make my Mystery Machine deck first.
EDIT:
Ulvenwald mysteries seems like a solid addition. Tamiyo's journal gives 3 1/1's...
The best part about all these clue cards is that they actually get better in multiples.
I think Tamiyo's Journal will see some amount of play in a very control heavy style deck that draws a bunch of cards and eventually tutors for its kill condition. I just don't think that these two cards go into the same type of deck since they aren't trying to do the same thing.
T1: Forest, Traverse The Ulvenwald
T2: Plains, Corrupted Grafstone
T3: Tireless Tracker, Plains, Thraben Inspector
T4: Forest, Tamiyo's Journal, activate Journal, Attack with a 5/6 on 4 with a solid play available on 5
(of course I am open to upgrading the lands or even adding a 3rd color)
I'm surprised to see so little chatter, and what little discussion there is seems to be preoccupied with the Clue mechanic. By all means, enjoy your theme decks, but stockpiling clues by pairing this with even slower, less impactful cards would emphasize this card's weaknesses rather than compensate for them. If Tamiyo's Journal sees any constructed play, it will be in control sideboards. Speaking of control vs control sideboarding, Seer's Sundial saw some fringe play way back when, and I think that bodes well for Tireless Tracker.
The strengths of Tireless Tracker are many. It's self-contained, so you don't need to build around it. Just run efficiently costed, impactful stuff. As a source of card advantage it could not be more flexible. You can harvest at your convenience, as an instant - even after it's dead. If your opponent is holding an answer, you still come out way ahead just by following up with a land, which cannot be disrupted. And it starts out with a significant body before growing into a potential finisher.
This is a very strong card, and I'll be disappointed if Standard is too fast for it to see maindeck play. At the very least, it will be an attractive sideboard option.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying tireless tracker is bad without fetchlands, but it is a lot worse. As is, I still expect it to see play in CoCo decks. Also, this card won't see play with Tamayo's Journal, they just don't belong in the same decks. None of the clue synergies we've seen are strong enough to consider putting them in the same decks.
- Manite
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I consider Sin prodder better. No setup required. No mana to invest and it's a threat right now. This doesn't have menace to deal good damage by itself even if nothing goes right. Even late game, this guy provides less value unless youy already have a bunch of clues in play
I think you're totally wrong; playing lands does not constitute setup. Nor do you need a lot of clues to get value out of her; the first clue you sac makes her a 4/3, which is comparable to a 3/2 Menace. Every land drop you make guarantees a card and a pump, unlike Sin Prodder, who can't guarantee damage or cards consistently. But let's not also let this discussion sidetrack into talking about that devil.
Tracker isn't going to be great in aggro decks, because the card advantage is slow. But a midrange deck that wants to ramp and grind the game out will be very happy to have a card that not only turns lands into more cards, but also can be boosted into a game ending threat by itself. If there's a deck in Standard that wants to cast Explosive Vegetation, casting that the turn after Tracker nets you 3 clues. Even without whatever you're ramping into, that lets you draw 3 next turn and attack with a 6/5. For a 3 drop, that's a lot of late game potential and a lot of flexibility.
If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
Suppose you cast her on turn three and subsequently hit your fourth land drop. Your opponent has to block as if she were a 4/3, even if you have better things to do than crack the Clue.
Tireless Tracker also fills in for a four drop in your curve rather nicely. Just follow up with a land, and then drop another land on turn five before you attack. Now she's an implied 5/4.
As you can see, this card doesn't require any further investment to attack well. Having clues is enough to make blocking difficult. This threat of activation dynamic also makes her better in multiples, since you can potentially hold off on cracking Clues until your second copy hits the board. And let's take a moment to admire how well this card works in multiples.
This is not to say that Tireless Tracker is an aggressive card. As others have rightly theorized, she seems most at home in midrange. But as always, whether you play aggressively or defensively depends on the matchup. Against an aggressive opponent, Tireless Tracker allows you to sit back and try to win through card advantage - assuming you can stabilize. When you're the beatdown, she hits rather hard for a three drop - especially one that also functions as a strictly superior Seer's Sundial, a card that only control decks fear. In fact, if this card somehow survives against a control deck, you and your opponent might not know who the beatdown is anymore. Against combo though, she'd better solve that mystery in a hurry.
I like Sin Prodder, but it belongs on the aggressive side of the spectrum because it works best when your opponent is under pressure. A more subtle reason that these cards won't be competing for the same slot in midrange is that Tireless Tracker plays better against removal. If you drop a land after casting Tireless Tracker, you're ahead. If your devil gets dealt with, it's parity.
It's a very powerful card in G/W humans deck and the Bant CoCo decks.
Thanks!
You still get a clue, because that triggered ability does not care about the creature; even if the creature is dead, it resolves.