So Jace is printed the most by 1. Not really that extreme considering he is the "face" of the game.
Are you equally upset by Chandra having more printings then every non-jace walker?
Let's not pretend we don't get what this person is saying.
Isn't it remarkable that even though he doesn't lead by the most card printings, Jace is still in the vast majority of promotional material, card arts, flavor texts etc? Isn't it also remarkable that he has more tournament-viable cards than any other walker.
Perception is reality, and he feels like he's there more because of the aforementioned remarkable things.
Jace is still in the vast majority of promotional material, card arts, flavor texts etc?
Have you compiled the data to support this claim? I agree Jace certainly leads in planeswalker cards, but does he really represent the vast majority of promotional material, card arts, and flavor texts?
Screw Jace, I want a new main character/poster child not that... saturday morning cartoon good guy.
To be fair, while Jace has his problems, he isn't a Saturday morning cartoon kind of "poster child". Mind games and illusions aren't really standard fare for Saturday morning cartoon protags at all. If I'm not wrong, some kind of fire or special energy abilities are far more common among that type of character. Moreover, those characters tend to be plucky, brash, and optimistic. None of which are really Jace's thing.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Western culture sees intellect as a male value and empathy as a female value. These are the suggested qualities of Jace and Chandra respectively in an above sig. If people see the walkers like this, it isn't surprising to me that more people like Jace. Dudes, who seem to be the majority of magic players, would likely choose to identify with intellect. Combine that with the fact that blue seems to be one of the most popular colors and represents magic or mages in general, I get why this would work well for WOtC. My main idea is dudes want to identify with logic and reason and not with culturally female qualities (note: the qualities themselves have no basis in gender, and I don't necessarily see Chandra as exhibiting empathy)
Western culture sees intellect as a male value and empathy as a female value. These are the suggested qualities of Jace and Chandra respectively in an above sig. If people see the walkers like this, it isn't surprising to me that more people like Jace. Dudes, who seem to be the majority of magic players, would likely choose to identify with intellect. Combine that with the fact that blue seems to be one of the most popular colors and represents magic or mages in general, I get why this would work well for WOtC. My main idea is dudes want to identify with logic and reason and not with culturally female qualities (note: the qualities themselves have no basis in gender, and I don't necessarily see Chandra as exhibiting empathy)
I just want to put it on record that somehow assigning those qualities to certain genders was not my intention for the sig. The assignment of qualities in my sig is my choice of my favored quality of each color. The planeswalkers are there simply because they are the current poster children for each respective color and I also commissioned the sig directly before the release of Oath. I personally see that supposed dichotomy of those qualities along gender lines to be sexist(though I do realize that is not necessarily your stance).
Although, the reason that Jace works so well as the face of Magic is Magic's largest demographic. Male "nerds". A community of individuals that tends to prize logic and rationality as well as intellectualism(now whether that is present on an individual level will have to be evaluated, well, individually). There is also the obvious power fantasy of being a master of mental manipulation, being a character who utilizes brain over brawn, Jace's hooded, brooding, mysterious persona, etc.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Since the inception of planeswalker cards, Jace and Chandra have not left standard.The only difference is jade has had more powerful cards than Chandra.Illusions are supposed to be jace's thing but none of his cards have shown that.His cards have card draw,bounce,and mill,leaving very little space for future mono colored blue walkers,that's one of my big gripes with him,he's taking too much of blue's slice of pie.
Since the inception of planeswalker cards, Jace and Chandra have not left standard.The only difference is jade has had more powerful cards than Chandra.Illusions are supposed to be jace's thing but none of his cards have shown that.His cards have card draw,bounce,and mill,leaving very little space for future mono colored blue walkers,that's one of my big gripes with him,he's taking too much of blue's slice of pie.
Except the slice he's supposed to take. I mean none of his abilities have yet to drop Illusion creature tokens.
In fact, given that he's a mind mage, who's to say he's not simply doing a Lockheart?
In story he makes illusions all the time,he is a mind mage as well,but ask yourself what blue can do,now try to make another mono blue walker that doesn't step on what jace already has in his arsenal.Planeswalkers have the least design space,thus it's fair to say he is taking too much of what a blue walker can do.It feels insulting that his innistrad ultimate is a call back to a card that had to do with the soritami,which is what Tamiyo is.
I'm going to be as constructive in this debate without being biased. While some say that Jace is around too much and other say his presence is justified, one fact is undeniable. Aside from having the most planeswalker cards, at seven and counting, Jace and Jace-related cards have also been present in more sets and products then any other planeswalker.
Since there is no overlap between any of these cards (meaning that no two were printed in the same products), this means that there are 18 different, distinct products with a Jace planeswalker card included, ranging from Lorwyn to the current set, and in all kinds of products - from Duel Decks and Media Inserts to regular sets and promotional versions. While some planeswalkers, most notably Chandra, have almost as much distinct cards as Jace, none of them come even close to being printed so many different times and in so many different sets and products. But this is not all. Apart from just being omnipresent as a planeswalker, Jace has almost as much cards related to him - with 7 cards directly associated with him, being depicted in a whopping 34 cards and quoted or refereed to on 20 cards. Furthermore, storyline-wise, since Jace's introduction, he has been present in the independent stories of Agents of Artifice, Test of Metal and Purifying Fire, as well as main stories of Zendikar, Return to Ravnica, Battle for Zendikar and the present Shadows over Innistrad set. This not even getting to the fact that the current standard MTG font is called Beleren and that the character is a "Living Guildpact", ie. a fabric of law and order on what is perhaps the most popular plane in Magic. Finally, as the Gatewatch has been established as the set of "main characters" in Magic's creative universe, this trend is unlikely to cease.
So, what's the verdict? While a number of people enjoy Jace, this number is steadily declining as a result of the general unlikeability of his character and sheer overexposure. He is present in a great variety of Magic sets and merchandise, and is thus causing over-saturation of his image and character. Meanwhile, a great deal of actually popular and interesting characters are left in the background and Jace doesn't seem like he'll soon disappear from our sets. Sooner then later, he'll become a character like Ash Ketchum, a caricature of his former self and a joke in the minds of long-time fans. His character rarely, if ever goes through significant development. Wouldn't you like to see more characters like Tibalt, Domri, Tamiyo, Tezzeret, Vraska and Nicol Bolas, rather then the single, non-changing, non-relatable nancyboy that is Jace's character? Magic's storyline is not aimed at ten year-old children like the Pokemon anime is. Magic players are, I hope, adult enough to see their characters change, evolve, and finally, adult enough to see more of them, less repetition and less overexposure of a single character. For the sake of this game and its story, I hope we can move on from the Gatewatch quad as soon as possible and see more planeswalkers, on more worlds, on more different, varied quests. Just like Christian's Bale's Batman, they had their story. They need an end to it.
Completely agree,he has what I like to call the John cena effect.
"our market research indicates that Jace is the most popular" = we had a focus group with a bunch of 12 year old boys who all think Jace is the most badassest
All of the Lorwyn 5 had the same start. The original Garruk was probably the most played of the bunch if I recollect correctly, and is actually still played in fringe Modern decks like Death Cloud. However, more players liked Jace as a concept, so they pushed Jace. That's not exactly a hard concept to get behind.
The problem is that, as far as I can remember, Jace is the only planeswalker to reach $100 while in Standard. Twice (I'm rounding a little, but close enough). Every version of Jace has seen moderate to format-warping amounts of play except Jace, the Living Guildpact. People don't hate Jace simply because he's printed too much, or because he's blue, or whatever other weird reason people come up with. The simple fact is people are tired of Jace because he's a dynasty -- every Standard format has a Jace that falls higher than average on the playable-to-extremely-broken scale compared to any other Planeswalker.
Jace is to M:tG as the Patriots are to the NFL. And nobody likes the Patriots.
this is about as perfect explanation as I could possibly hope for
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
Western culture sees intellect as a male value and empathy as a female value. These are the suggested qualities of Jace and Chandra respectively in an above sig. If people see the walkers like this, it isn't surprising to me that more people like Jace. Dudes, who seem to be the majority of magic players, would likely choose to identify with intellect. Combine that with the fact that blue seems to be one of the most popular colors and represents magic or mages in general, I get why this would work well for WOtC. My main idea is dudes want to identify with logic and reason and not with culturally female qualities (note: the qualities themselves have no basis in gender, and I don't necessarily see Chandra as exhibiting empathy)
We have Liliana for female intellect, and Gideon for male empathy though.
And I definitely see Chandra as being empathetic. She doesn't like to feel "shackled" by it, but she is aware of what others feel.
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MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
Since the inception of planeswalker cards, Jace and Chandra have not left standard.The only difference is jade has had more powerful cards than Chandra.Illusions are supposed to be jace's thing but none of his cards have shown that.His cards have card draw,bounce,and mill,leaving very little space for future mono colored blue walkers,that's one of my big gripes with him,he's taking too much of blue's slice of pie.
I think the -X/-0 stuff is the "illusion" magic. Thats what I viewed it as anyways.
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MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
Since the inception of planeswalker cards, Jace and Chandra have not left standard.The only difference is jade has had more powerful cards than Chandra.Illusions are supposed to be jace's thing but none of his cards have shown that.His cards have card draw,bounce,and mill,leaving very little space for future mono colored blue walkers,that's one of my big gripes with him,he's taking too much of blue's slice of pie.
Except the slice he's supposed to take. I mean none of his abilities have yet to drop Illusion creature tokens.
In fact, given that he's a mind mage, who's to say he's not simply doing a Lockheart?
I would LOVE to see a Jace that better embodies exactly this. Something like:
Jace, Mental Master 1UU
+1: Tap target creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. (Confusion/Mind Magic).
-1: Put a 1/1 blue Illusion creature token with Flying onto the battlefield. It has, "When this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it." (Illusions)
-7: Draw 7 cards. You get an emblem with "You have no maximum hand size". (Insight and Intelligence)
2 Loyalty
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The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
Since the inception of planeswalker cards, Jace and Chandra have not left standard.The only difference is jade has had more powerful cards than Chandra.Illusions are supposed to be jace's thing but none of his cards have shown that.His cards have card draw,bounce,and mill,leaving very little space for future mono colored blue walkers,that's one of my big gripes with him,he's taking too much of blue's slice of pie.
Except the slice he's supposed to take. I mean none of his abilities have yet to drop Illusion creature tokens.
In fact, given that he's a mind mage, who's to say he's not simply doing a Lockheart?
I would LOVE to see a Jace that better embodies exactly this. Something like:
Jace, Mental Master 1UU
+1: Tap target creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. (Confusion/Mind Magic).
-1: Put a 1/1 blue Illusion creature token with Flying onto the battlefield. It has, "When this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it." (Illusions)
-7: Draw 7 cards. You get an emblem with "You have no maximum hand size". (Insight and Intelligence)
2 Loyalty
This illustrates my one complaint with Jace (he's alright, I guess, otherwise.)
It isn't his cards giving him to broad of a range of abilities; its his character. He, in story, can do pretty much everything that a mono-blue character can do. The only space he doesn't eat up is the elemental side of blue, which is pretty narrow to begin with.
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MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
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Let's not pretend we don't get what this person is saying.
Isn't it remarkable that even though he doesn't lead by the most card printings, Jace is still in the vast majority of promotional material, card arts, flavor texts etc? Isn't it also remarkable that he has more tournament-viable cards than any other walker.
Perception is reality, and he feels like he's there more because of the aforementioned remarkable things.
End.
Your mods are terrified of me.
The Goggles are not Chandra's. It says who's they are on the card.
-Chandra Nalaar
Although, the reason that Jace works so well as the face of Magic is Magic's largest demographic. Male "nerds". A community of individuals that tends to prize logic and rationality as well as intellectualism(now whether that is present on an individual level will have to be evaluated, well, individually). There is also the obvious power fantasy of being a master of mental manipulation, being a character who utilizes brain over brawn, Jace's hooded, brooding, mysterious persona, etc.
-Chandra Nalaar
In story he makes illusions all the time,he is a mind mage as well,but ask yourself what blue can do,now try to make another mono blue walker that doesn't step on what jace already has in his arsenal.Planeswalkers have the least design space,thus it's fair to say he is taking too much of what a blue walker can do.It feels insulting that his innistrad ultimate is a call back to a card that had to do with the soritami,which is what Tamiyo is.
Completely agree,he has what I like to call the John cena effect.
I mean his flavor text dialogue is tacky and his art is cheesy, but there isn't one Planeswalker where both those aren't true.
Except Fblthp.
this is about as perfect explanation as I could possibly hope for
We have Liliana for female intellect, and Gideon for male empathy though.
And I definitely see Chandra as being empathetic. She doesn't like to feel "shackled" by it, but she is aware of what others feel.
I think the -X/-0 stuff is the "illusion" magic. Thats what I viewed it as anyways.
I would LOVE to see a Jace that better embodies exactly this. Something like:
Jace, Mental Master 1UU
+1: Tap target creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. (Confusion/Mind Magic).
-1: Put a 1/1 blue Illusion creature token with Flying onto the battlefield. It has, "When this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it." (Illusions)
-7: Draw 7 cards. You get an emblem with "You have no maximum hand size". (Insight and Intelligence)
2 Loyalty
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
This illustrates my one complaint with Jace (he's alright, I guess, otherwise.)
It isn't his cards giving him to broad of a range of abilities; its his character. He, in story, can do pretty much everything that a mono-blue character can do. The only space he doesn't eat up is the elemental side of blue, which is pretty narrow to begin with.