I am seriously sick of Jace. Every single set. You can't FORCE people to like something. STOP PRINTING A MILLION VERSIONS OF HIM.
In other news, this is a card. And it has the most frustrating ultimate ever. I hope it won't happen often.
But honestly. They want everyone to like Jace. If everyone starts playing with this card, NO ONE will like Jace anymore. Especially new players who will feel that this game is about doing nothing. (Autocard won't work for some reason)
The ult is auto-scoop by opponent unless they already have lethal on board. The +1 is amazing.
Also, You're probably only thinking that Jace is everywhere because his Origins card is going for $80+ (unnecessarily high, IMO, but whatever). He's not as pervasive as you believe.
Of course this set would have had Jace. He's one of the main five characters, and a favorite of most players. I actually like that this card isn't overpowered like some prior iterations. Usable abilities and reasonable cost. I also like that the other walkers in this set are more interesting than Jace.
Next set we will get a strong Liliana, next block we will see Gideon again and probably Nissa/Chandra. Wizards said the stories of the 5 from Origins will set up the ongoing future for magic sets. Don't act so surprised or complain when you see these walkers get the majority of the cards.
Of course this set would have had Jace. He's one of the main five characters, and a favorite of most players. I actually like that this card isn't overpowered like some prior iterations. Usable abilities and reasonable cost. I also like that the other walkers in this set are more interesting than Jace.
Next set we will get a strong Liliana, next block we will see Gideon again and probably Nissa/Chandra. Wizards said the stories of the 5 from Origins will set up the ongoing future for magic sets. Don't act so surprised or complain when you see these walkers get the majority of the cards.
Six, just like Chandra. The others from the original five have seen either four (just Liliana) or five (Ajani and Garruk). They're the longest-standing planeswalkers, and you play a game where blue is a pretty popular color. There's no denying that Jace has been a posterboy for the game for a while, but I think the numbers show that Wizards has stayed their hand quite a bit actually.
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Let's not look at core sets for a second (core sets were meant for new players, and not for enfranchised players), and instead look at story/expert sets:
SoI - Jace
BfZ - No Jace
Magic Origins - Jace
Khans - No Jace
Theros - No Jace
RtR - Jace
Innistrad - No Jace
Scars of Mirrodin - No Jace
Zendikar - Jace
Compare to:
SoI - No Gideon
BfZ - Gideon
Magic Origins - Gideon
Khans - No Gideon
Theros - No Gideon
RtR - Gideon
Innistrad - No Gideon
Scars of Mirrodin - No Gideon
Zendikar - Gideon
Oh look, the same amount!
This incessant whining over the saturation of Jace has no basis whatsoever and it's all echo chamber nonsense from a minute magic community. Most players like Jace and the recent stories have made Jace a really enjoyable character to read.
Most importantly: They do not print Jace because they want to make the magic community like Jace, they print Jace because the magic community at large already likes him. You are the vocal minority, get over it.
Let's not look at core sets for a second (core sets were meant for new players, and not for enfranchised players), and instead look at story/expert sets:
SoI - Jace
BfZ - No Jace
Magic Origins - Jace
Khans - No Jace
Theros - No Jace
RtR - Jace
Innistrad - No Jace
Scars of Mirrodin - No Jace
Zendikar - Jace
Compare to:
SoI - No Gideon
BfZ - Gideon
Magic Origins - Gideon
Khans - No Gideon
Theros - No Gideon
RtR - Gideon
Innistrad - No Gideon
Scars of Mirrodin - No Gideon
Zendikar - Gideon
Oh look, the same amount!
This incessant whining over the saturation of Jace has no basis whatsoever and it's all echo chamber nonsense from a minute magic community. Most players like Jace and the recent stories have made Jace a really enjoyable character to read.
Most importantly: They do not print Jace because they want to make the magic community like Jace, they print Jace because the magic community at large already likes him. You are the vocal minority, get over it.
Jace was already the most visible character when no one knew him (or the others for that matter.)
Also, he happens to be the best PW in Arena of the PWs. By a wide margin. Probably a coincidence. And why not look at core sets? ANd how do you know that people who dislike or don't care about Jace are a minority?
Six, just like Chandra. The others from the original five have seen either four (just Liliana) or five (Ajani and Garruk). They're the longest-standing planeswalkers, and you play a game where blue is a pretty popular color. There's no denying that Jace has been a posterboy for the game for a while, but I think the numbers show that Wizards has stayed their hand quite a bit actually.
For Chandra it's understandable. Players liked her even though she wasn't always "in your face" but her cards weren't very good, despite the character being liked. Chandra Nalaar and Chandra ablaze were more or less ignored. (The latter more than the former). And I don't remember chandra the firebrand having much impact either.
So they kept trying to get her right. People really liked Garruk as well. He got some attention, though not as much as Jace. A lot of good stories can be made with a hunter that can track you through planes, has access to huge amounts of mana, and has creatures bend to his will on any plane.
There was Venser, but they killed him. And not much is known about Tamyo. A shapeshifter PW would be cool. Hell, I'd love to See Crovax come back as a Black PW. And they could make Teferi a non-commander only char. Wonder if he's still alive.
Rhada was half keldon half elf. And she was dangerous as hell before she started using her spark. would make a greatGR PW. "Starts Rhada daydream"
Just a single source of many, but market research done by WotC tells them that jace is the most popular planeswalker among the playerbase, however Chandra is catching up on him. People who dislike him are definitely the minority of players. Just like how Kamigawa is popular plane among a vocal minority of players, but market research showed that most of the magic populous did not like the setting.
WotC relies on market research to try and put out products that make them money. They would not prop up a character that was not well liked because that is counterintuitive from a business standpoint. People want Jace cards, so they print Jace cards, end of story.
im not very anti jace and i like new planeswalkers more than copies of the main ones but i think the frequency of jaces is fine and somewhat exaggerated here. i don't really find these 'formulaic' planeswalkers like this jace with abilities modeled after other cards to be boring or lazy either. not every planeswalker can or should be very unique, plus the spell-like abilities are more flavorful.
the same way we get iterations of spells, we get iterations of planeswalkers. you just happen to not like this particular character.
Just a single source of many, but market research done by WotC tells them that jace is the most popular planeswalker among the playerbase, however Chandra is catching up on him. People who dislike him are definitely the minority of players. Just like how Kamigawa is popular plane among a vocal minority of players, but market research showed that most of the magic populous did not like the setting.
WotC relies on market research to try and put out products that make them money. They would not prop up a character that was not well liked because that is counterintuitive from a business standpoint. People want Jace cards, so they print Jace cards, end of story.
im not very anti jace and i like new planeswalkers more than copies of the main ones but i think the frequency of jaces is fine and somewhat exaggerated here. i don't really find these 'formulaic' planeswalkers like this jace with abilities modeled after other cards to be boring or lazy either. not every planeswalker can or should be very unique, plus the spell-like abilities are more flavorful.
the same way we get iterations of spells, we get iterations of planeswalkers. you just happen to not like this particular character.
I never said I didn't like Jace. I said I was tired of seeing him.
I liked goblins too. But at some point I got sick of every other red creature being a goblin. Thankfully they toned that down.
I feel like Jace is somewhat lacking in personality. I actually really liked his origins story though. The best I got from his character is him being horribly naive, which is at least 1 negative personality trait. But they don't emphasises it enough. He needs more dimensions to be a good character. He is just a blank slate that we are supposed to imprint ourselves onto.
Off topic. Nissa would of been 100 times better if she kept the racist stuff from before, with the context of her friend being killed by vampires so she hates them and then allow her to have a change of heart rather than erase it. much more compelling story.
Anyway the card.. is probably worse than Ob Nixis, The +1 is better but the -2 is worse although he can use it twice. It is a medicore card but it might see some sideboard play. You can use him to lock out a mid range opponent quite easily, actually maybe I convinced my self he is good. If a control deck Languish turn 4 then play Jace then bounce the opponents last play it's looking pretty good.
Just a single source of many, but market research done by WotC tells them that jace is the most popular planeswalker among the playerbase, however Chandra is catching up on him. People who dislike him are definitely the minority of players. Just like how Kamigawa is popular plane among a vocal minority of players, but market research showed that most of the magic populous did not like the setting.
WotC relies on market research to try and put out products that make them money. They would not prop up a character that was not well liked because that is counterintuitive from a business standpoint. People want Jace cards, so they print Jace cards, end of story.
Jace has been pushed from the start.
All of the Lorwyn 5 had the same start. The original Garruk was probably the most played of the bunch if I recollect correctly, and is actually still played in fringe Modern decks like Death Cloud. However, more players liked Jace as a concept, so they pushed Jace. That's not exactly a hard concept to get behind.
The title for the most powerful planeswalker is even up for debate, as Liliana contests Jace in Legacy (as do Tezzeret, Karn, Ugin...).
I'm also pretty sure you're selectively forgetting that both Chandra and Garruk had their time as the face of magic, with two of the core sets that pushed them to the forefront. Garruk even had a whole event after himself, challenge deck, cardboard cutout, physical axe and all! Jace can't claim that. Not to mention prior to SoI, Garruk and Jace were tied for numbers of planeswalker cards, and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Garruk...
I don't think the problem is with printing Jace, the problem is lack of character development in Jace. The blowback against Jace is due to players getting bored by him, not players disliking Jace. Garruk is interesting because his character is actually changing, albeit only due to the influence of the Chain Veil. Chandra is developing as a character and is growing to accept her responsibilities. Gideon has come to value intelligence gathering and strategy far more than any pure white planeswalker has any real right to. We've barely seen sarkhan and we've his character has gone through way more than any of the rest. Jace is still just Jace.
EDIT: Also, planeswalker design seems to have gotten a bit stale. When SoI releases, we will have three 5 cmc planewalkers, all of whom have (+1: draw a card, -K: protect planeswalker, ult) as their abilities
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
All of the Lorwyn 5 had the same start. The original Garruk was probably the most played of the bunch if I recollect correctly, and is actually still played in fringe Modern decks like Death Cloud. However, more players liked Jace as a concept, so they pushed Jace. That's not exactly a hard concept to get behind.
The problem is that, as far as I can remember, Jace is the only planeswalker to reach $100 while in Standard. Twice (I'm rounding a little, but close enough). Every version of Jace has seen moderate to format-warping amounts of play except Jace, the Living Guildpact. People don't hate Jace simply because he's printed too much, or because he's blue, or whatever other weird reason people come up with. The simple fact is people are tired of Jace because he's a dynasty -- every Standard format has a Jace that falls higher than average on the playable-to-extremely-broken scale compared to any other Planeswalker.
Jace is to M:tG as the Patriots are to the NFL. And nobody likes the Patriots.
Once Origins rotates out and we no longer get a guaranteed Jace every year to go with the ones that show up in blocks, I wouldn't be surprised if Jace Fatigue loses a bit of its edge. Especially if Tamiyo joins the avengers, so we can start seeing another mono-U walker on a regular basis.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
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I am seriously sick of Jace. Every single set. You can't FORCE people to like something. STOP PRINTING A MILLION VERSIONS OF HIM.
In other news, this is a card. And it has the most frustrating ultimate ever. I hope it won't happen often.
But honestly. They want everyone to like Jace. If everyone starts playing with this card, NO ONE will like Jace anymore. Especially new players who will feel that this game is about doing nothing. (Autocard won't work for some reason)
Also, You're probably only thinking that Jace is everywhere because his Origins card is going for $80+ (unnecessarily high, IMO, but whatever). He's not as pervasive as you believe.
Next set we will get a strong Liliana, next block we will see Gideon again and probably Nissa/Chandra. Wizards said the stories of the 5 from Origins will set up the ongoing future for magic sets. Don't act so surprised or complain when you see these walkers get the majority of the cards.
How many times was a Jace printed versus,.... any other PW?
Who said I was surprised?
Ajani - 5
Chandra - 6
Jace - 7
Garruk - 5
Gideon - 4
Liliana 4
Nissa - 4
So Jace is printed the most by 1. Not really that extreme considering he is the "face" of the game.
Are you equally upset by Chandra having more printings then every non-jace walker?
+2: Ponder.
-3: Withdraw.
-10: Eye of the Storm.
5
+1: Thought Scour.
-2: Polymorph.
-X: Stroke of Genius.
4
i got a million combinations easy.
........................
SoI - Jace
BfZ - No Jace
Magic Origins - Jace
Khans - No Jace
Theros - No Jace
RtR - Jace
Innistrad - No Jace
Scars of Mirrodin - No Jace
Zendikar - Jace
Compare to:
SoI - No Gideon
BfZ - Gideon
Magic Origins - Gideon
Khans - No Gideon
Theros - No Gideon
RtR - Gideon
Innistrad - No Gideon
Scars of Mirrodin - No Gideon
Zendikar - Gideon
Oh look, the same amount!
This incessant whining over the saturation of Jace has no basis whatsoever and it's all echo chamber nonsense from a minute magic community. Most players like Jace and the recent stories have made Jace a really enjoyable character to read.
Most importantly: They do not print Jace because they want to make the magic community like Jace, they print Jace because the magic community at large already likes him. You are the vocal minority, get over it.
Jace was already the most visible character when no one knew him (or the others for that matter.)
Also, he happens to be the best PW in Arena of the PWs. By a wide margin. Probably a coincidence. And why not look at core sets? ANd how do you know that people who dislike or don't care about Jace are a minority?
For Chandra it's understandable. Players liked her even though she wasn't always "in your face" but her cards weren't very good, despite the character being liked. Chandra Nalaar and Chandra ablaze were more or less ignored. (The latter more than the former). And I don't remember chandra the firebrand having much impact either.
So they kept trying to get her right. People really liked Garruk as well. He got some attention, though not as much as Jace. A lot of good stories can be made with a hunter that can track you through planes, has access to huge amounts of mana, and has creatures bend to his will on any plane.
There was Venser, but they killed him. And not much is known about Tamyo. A shapeshifter PW would be cool. Hell, I'd love to See Crovax come back as a Black PW. And they could make Teferi a non-commander only char. Wonder if he's still alive.
Rhada was half keldon half elf. And she was dangerous as hell before she started using her spark. would make a greatGR PW. "Starts Rhada daydream"
WotC relies on market research to try and put out products that make them money. They would not prop up a character that was not well liked because that is counterintuitive from a business standpoint. People want Jace cards, so they print Jace cards, end of story.
the same way we get iterations of spells, we get iterations of planeswalkers. you just happen to not like this particular character.
Jace has been pushed from the start.
I never said I didn't like Jace. I said I was tired of seeing him.
I liked goblins too. But at some point I got sick of every other red creature being a goblin. Thankfully they toned that down.
Off topic. Nissa would of been 100 times better if she kept the racist stuff from before, with the context of her friend being killed by vampires so she hates them and then allow her to have a change of heart rather than erase it. much more compelling story.
Anyway the card.. is probably worse than Ob Nixis, The +1 is better but the -2 is worse although he can use it twice. It is a medicore card but it might see some sideboard play. You can use him to lock out a mid range opponent quite easily, actually maybe I convinced my self he is good. If a control deck Languish turn 4 then play Jace then bounce the opponents last play it's looking pretty good.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
All of the Lorwyn 5 had the same start. The original Garruk was probably the most played of the bunch if I recollect correctly, and is actually still played in fringe Modern decks like Death Cloud. However, more players liked Jace as a concept, so they pushed Jace. That's not exactly a hard concept to get behind.
The title for the most powerful planeswalker is even up for debate, as Liliana contests Jace in Legacy (as do Tezzeret, Karn, Ugin...).
I'm also pretty sure you're selectively forgetting that both Chandra and Garruk had their time as the face of magic, with two of the core sets that pushed them to the forefront. Garruk even had a whole event after himself, challenge deck, cardboard cutout, physical axe and all! Jace can't claim that. Not to mention prior to SoI, Garruk and Jace were tied for numbers of planeswalker cards, and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Garruk...
EDIT: Also, planeswalker design seems to have gotten a bit stale. When SoI releases, we will have three 5 cmc planewalkers, all of whom have (+1: draw a card, -K: protect planeswalker, ult) as their abilities
- Manite
U has 3 with Teferi, Jace, and Tamiyo.
W has 4 with Elspeth, Gedeon, Nahiri,Ajani
R has 5 with Chandra, Koth, Tibalt, Daretti, and Sarkan (the mono r one)
B has 3 with Lilianna, Sorin, and Ob Nixis
G has 3 with Nissa, Freyalise, and Garruk.
Now granted this does not count multi colors...
If you include multi colors in both colors I think Uand W pull ahead with Venser, Narset, Nicol Bolas, Ral Zarek, and Dack Fayden...
Thing to note though... G, U, and B only relly have 2 PWs eaxh as the others are from Commander decks
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
U- only 1 of its planeswalkers has been printed more than once. Tamiyo has not had a new card and Teferi is specifically commander.
W- easily the bet off color. 3 of its PWs have had 3 ORE MORE different cards. This is more than any other color.
R- Depending onHow you view Sarkon, only 1 of its PWs have had mor than 1 card...
G- Nissa recently got love but from its inception all the wayto RtZ, it was all about Garruk...
B- sadly Sorin has sjifted from B and has stuck to BW, leaving Lilianna as the only real Mono-B PW left (unless they brjmg back Demon Boy)
Just some stuff ti think about...
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
The problem is that, as far as I can remember, Jace is the only planeswalker to reach $100 while in Standard. Twice (I'm rounding a little, but close enough). Every version of Jace has seen moderate to format-warping amounts of play except Jace, the Living Guildpact. People don't hate Jace simply because he's printed too much, or because he's blue, or whatever other weird reason people come up with. The simple fact is people are tired of Jace because he's a dynasty -- every Standard format has a Jace that falls higher than average on the playable-to-extremely-broken scale compared to any other Planeswalker.
Jace is to M:tG as the Patriots are to the NFL. And nobody likes the Patriots.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"