Newlamog kills enough things when cast. As a Modern player, I'm more excited about Kozilek's Return proc-ing off Kozilek, the Great Distortion. As much as I lean on this guy against Burn, he can't deal with a board presence of more than one guy...except when Kozilek's Return blows up everything in his way!
Let me put it like this, at least for standard. There are plenty of boardstates where I want to blow up lands with Ulamog, but have to go after creatures because otherwise I will die from a removal spell or just by them attacking. This means I don't have to worry about it; the "flashbacking" of it wipes out almost everything that is a problem in standard, leaving Ulamog to blow up the lands. Equally, the fact that it's an instant speed Pyroclasm is extremely welcomed in ramp lists, which can get beat down by aggressive strategies. The secondary board wipe just keeps you in the game. Ive been needing a good wipe, and I just don't see it getting better.
Agreed. I've been playing mostly Eldrazi ramp for the past 2 months and this card looks amazing for the deck. At worse it is a massive upgrade on my sideboard mass removal, but I suspect it will be good enough to make the main pretty often (kinda meta dependent). Being able to to Ulamog lands AND wipe the board is big game, especially against the midrange and control opponents. Kill your dragons/rhinos AND wreck your manabase so you can't answer my second Ulamog. But maybe even more significant IMO is the ability to make use of Kozilek in matchups where you really need the immediate impact of Ugin/Ulamog on the board as defense. This solves that problem and just puts most opponents in an absolutely terrible spot. You've wiped the board and have a full grip of semi-counters...on top of a huge threat. Before seeing this I was planning on just running Kozilek as a one-of to tutor for, but this could allow me to play more.
Honestly, OGW has a lot going for ramp. I'm personally going to be putting in 3-4 World Breakers. It procs Kozi's Return and Sanctum, starts the land nuking early, blocks extremely well against the midrange threats that can pose a problem (Particularly Wingmate Roc), can be cast turn 5 easily enough, and has the ability to recur. It seems like its the whole package.
I'm not sure where I'm going to end up, but with Kozi's Return I don't think 4x Ugin is entirely necessary anymore. So the ramp threats looks something like 4x World Breaker, 2x Ugin, 3x Ulamog, 2x Kozilek. Might have to teak numbers a bit, but I really like the look of this. Atarka fits as well, but I think it is a bit less necessary given Kozilek's Return will be in the list (And I think I might prefer some number mainboard).
Newlamog kills enough things when cast. As a Modern player, I'm more excited about Kozilek's Return proc-ing off Kozilek, the Great Distortion. As much as I lean on this guy against Burn, he can't deal with a board presence of more than one guy...except when Kozilek's Return blows up everything in his way!
Let me put it like this, at least for standard. There are plenty of boardstates where I want to blow up lands with Ulamog, but have to go after creatures because otherwise I will die from a removal spell or just by them attacking. This means I don't have to worry about it; the "flashbacking" of it wipes out almost everything that is a problem in standard, leaving Ulamog to blow up the lands. Equally, the fact that it's an instant speed Pyroclasm is extremely welcomed in ramp lists, which can get beat down by aggressive strategies. The secondary board wipe just keeps you in the game. Ive been needing a good wipe, and I just don't see it getting better.
Agreed. I've been playing mostly Eldrazi ramp for the past 2 months and this card looks amazing for the deck. At worse it is a massive upgrade on my sideboard mass removal, but I suspect it will be good enough to make the main pretty often (kinda meta dependent). Being able to to Ulamog lands AND wipe the board is big game, especially against the midrange and control opponents. Kill your dragons/rhinos AND wreck your manabase so you can't answer my second Ulamog. But maybe even more significant IMO is the ability to make use of Kozilek in matchups where you really need the immediate impact of Ugin/Ulamog on the board as defense. This solves that problem and just puts most opponents in an absolutely terrible spot. You've wiped the board and have a full grip of semi-counters...on top of a huge threat. Before seeing this I was planning on just running Kozilek as a one-of to tutor for, but this could allow me to play more.
Honestly, OGW has a lot going for ramp. I'm personally going to be putting in 3-4 World Breakers. It procs Kozi's Return and Sanctum, starts the land nuking early, blocks extremely well against the midrange threats that can pose a problem (Particularly Wingmate Roc), can be cast turn 5 easily enough, and has the ability to recur. It seems like its the whole package.
I'm not sure where I'm going to end up, but with Kozi's Return I don't think 4x Ugin is entirely necessary anymore. So the ramp threats looks something like 4x World Breaker, 2x Ugin, 3x Ulamog, 2x Kozilek. Might have to teak numbers a bit, but I really like the look of this. Atarka fits as well, but I think it is a bit less necessary given Kozilek's Return will be in the list (And I think I might prefer some number mainboard).
Yeah, World Breaker is definitely a contender. I'll definitely be running at least one due to the utility, tough to say how many more, kind of depends on how it lines up with the meta. That spot in the "curve" (i.e. not ramp and not Ugin/Ulamog/Kozilek) is tight.
If this gets really popular, people will be boarding in Burn Away. It already wrecks Aristocrats and Jace decks if cast correctly. This has me worried as a mid range player. Being able to board wipe twice on a single 3 mana spell may be a little OP. Hopefully they put in a safety valve.
Guys, has this one card basically killed wide aggro strategies? It's not that it's a 2 damage board sweep and then 5, that's fine. It's that it's at instant speed, meaning it can shut you down on your turn. I think they went a little too far, and then to give it a 5 damage board sweep was just crazy. Didn't they say they were toning down power creep. Was BFZ so underpowered they over compensated. This one card almost completely kills elves, and warriors, and even hurts atarka red(it's basically a kill everything on their side at anytime spell).
For elves, even if you shaman with 5 elves on the board, because it's instant, they can just cast this in response and all the elves go away. I think they should have either reduced it to 1/4 or upped it's mana cost to 2RR. This card will be abused and we will get sick of it: my prediction.
There better be some safety valve for this thing. All the other spoilers are good-great cards but this basically kills an entire chunk of playstyle.
Does it really hurt atarka red? Atarka red thrived on the lack of instant removal, but this isn't reliable against them- it fails to remove someone if they do any pump in response. And since atarka usually wants to go all-in on a turn with multiple pump spells, even if you drop this in response to one pump being cast, the next one will save it, they'll both resolve, the creature will swing with that become immense + temur battle rage and kill you just the same. And it won't even kill a swiftspear in response to a single pump
If anything, it really helps atarka red in those matchups against the wide aggro strategies you mention. Its a bit silly that this will kill the enemy monastery swiftspear if they they're tapped out, but it won't kill your own. All the core creatures that atarka runs other than abbot can survive their own self-cast sweeper and swing through. Swiftspear becomes 3 toughness, zurgo and lightning berserker stay in your hand and dash through, the landfall options can go to 3 toughness off a fetchland. Even abbot can survive turn 4+ off a wild slash or fiery impulse
Yes, this is the missing low cost (mana, not $$$) sweeper that spells the end of weenies whether its elves or warriors. It sweeps everything mardu plays when they're tapped out with no prowess and even cleans up after a hangarback. Playing around this sweeper to ensure you have prowess or whatever to foil it means slowing aggro decks down considerably and not overextending, exactly what the midrange / control decks want. Atarka can afford to play slow around this until they have 2 pump spells in hand, after all thats what they were doing anyway.
Volcanic fallout was obviously huge for being an intentional hoser for the overpowered faeries of its standard, but even without so degenerate decks to guard against, this standard is chock full of 2 toughness beaters all around, and that means this will easily be as huge.
Good point, I forgot about the prowess triggers. But don't those go on the stack as well. Imagine 2 M-spears and 3 goblin tokens. They go to attack, you say no blocks, they TBR and BI(two prowess triggers), won't those prowess triggers go on the stack in between each pump spell, and after the last pump spell, before anything resolved, you cast the instant 2 damage sweeper, the sweeper would resolve before the pump spells, killing everything, then all the spells and triggers resolve with no creatures under them, or am I misunderstanding prowess?
I just hope they didn't over compensate because BFZ was powered down by giving Eldrazi and OP spell. As long as they put in a safety valve for it(like a 2mc "devoid spells do no damage this turn" or something), I'm ok with it.
One thing I think everyone has missed- graveyards are going to mean ALOT in this standard, to the point where i think WotC knows graveyard hate will have to improve to keep balance.
Actually we both brainfarted that- I'm wrong that it will kill swiftspear in response to a single pump, because yeah the prowess trigger goes on the stack, and they can respond to that, but when they have 2 pump spells, it wouldn't make any sense to stack them on top of each other- they can wait until one resolves before playing the next. So even if they become immense first, and you put a kozilek's return on the stack above both the become immense & kozilek's return, they can cast temur battle rage, put it on above kozilek's return, then the prowess trigger goes above it. Then they resolve, first prowess makes him 2/3, then TBR makes him 2/3 double strike trample, then kozilek's resolves and doesn't kill him, then 3/4 from prowess, then 9/10 from become immense, then swings through and bops the enemy over the head. If you don't play kozilek's in response to the first become immense, its prowess and it resolve, THEN they can play TBR on an empty stack
of course it wouldn't make sense for them not to TBR first anyway, at which point just immense resolving would negate it, so that whole bit about prowess is moot in that case. But it certainly gives atarka options when their fiery impulse can respond to your kozilek's return and kill your siege rhinoand make their swiftspear survive, that kind of blowout play. Actually, that play doesn't make much sense either, because whats abzan doing playing a 4th color? well you get my point
Ah good point. So they wait for 1 pump to resolve before casting another to prevent against just that. So burn isn't an easy option. Good deal. Well, Atarka Red is safe but my poor elves...if this kills that deck, i will be quite unhappy, especially with them basically saying to the world we want elves to matter again with all the great elves in Magic Origins. But I forgot about something else...what goes better with elves than Nissa, and what does the new Nissa do... anthem the entire team...
I guess I just prefer burn sweepers to be sorcery speed but judging from the power level of cards already revealed, i have hope all deck types will be ok.
Now back on track, if I ever did play Eldrazi, this is an easy 4 of in that deck because it hits them early and late. Plus everyone is forgetting about that 4 drop that lets u play an extra land per turn...talk about ramp.
As an Eldrazi player...I can just main phase this against Atarka decks instead of trying to catch em with it on their turn. Usually will equate to killing their first two threats, or a threat and a pump spell. Still going to be a dog in the matchup for sure, but this makes it a little more reasonable and not just an autoloss game one. The fact that this is good against everything but other Eldrazi decks is key, because it means you get to main it instead of super niche stuff like Offshoot.
I can't imagine them releasing a Mythic pro-Eldrazi tool like this and not releasing an Eldrazi-hate tool like "2BR or 1GW enchantment 'Colorless spells cost 2 more'" , "1WW enchantment 'Prevent all but 1 non-combat damage from colorless sources" or even 4C artifact " prevent all but 1 non combat damage to creatures from colorless sources".
A 2 then a 5 damage sweeper is too op in standard IMO without a safety valve.
Even a 2R Instant that does 2 damage to each creature would be powerful at that cost. Devoid and the Eldrazi bonus are just extra icing, really.
Undercosted burn spell at Mythic, super awesome! ;P
Most valued card in the set at the moment.
Honestly, OGW has a lot going for ramp. I'm personally going to be putting in 3-4 World Breakers. It procs Kozi's Return and Sanctum, starts the land nuking early, blocks extremely well against the midrange threats that can pose a problem (Particularly Wingmate Roc), can be cast turn 5 easily enough, and has the ability to recur. It seems like its the whole package.
I'm not sure where I'm going to end up, but with Kozi's Return I don't think 4x Ugin is entirely necessary anymore. So the ramp threats looks something like 4x World Breaker, 2x Ugin, 3x Ulamog, 2x Kozilek. Might have to teak numbers a bit, but I really like the look of this. Atarka fits as well, but I think it is a bit less necessary given Kozilek's Return will be in the list (And I think I might prefer some number mainboard).
thats my cube
Yeah, World Breaker is definitely a contender. I'll definitely be running at least one due to the utility, tough to say how many more, kind of depends on how it lines up with the meta. That spot in the "curve" (i.e. not ramp and not Ugin/Ulamog/Kozilek) is tight.
For elves, even if you shaman with 5 elves on the board, because it's instant, they can just cast this in response and all the elves go away. I think they should have either reduced it to 1/4 or upped it's mana cost to 2RR. This card will be abused and we will get sick of it: my prediction.
There better be some safety valve for this thing. All the other spoilers are good-great cards but this basically kills an entire chunk of playstyle.
And it won't even kill a swiftspear in response to a single pumpIf anything, it really helps atarka red in those matchups against the wide aggro strategies you mention. Its a bit silly that this will kill the enemy monastery swiftspear if they they're tapped out, but it won't kill your own. All the core creatures that atarka runs other than abbot can survive their own self-cast sweeper and swing through. Swiftspear becomes 3 toughness, zurgo and lightning berserker stay in your hand and dash through, the landfall options can go to 3 toughness off a fetchland. Even abbot can survive turn 4+ off a wild slash or fiery impulse
Yes, this is the missing low cost (mana, not $$$) sweeper that spells the end of weenies whether its elves or warriors. It sweeps everything mardu plays when they're tapped out with no prowess and even cleans up after a hangarback. Playing around this sweeper to ensure you have prowess or whatever to foil it means slowing aggro decks down considerably and not overextending, exactly what the midrange / control decks want. Atarka can afford to play slow around this until they have 2 pump spells in hand, after all thats what they were doing anyway.
Volcanic fallout was obviously huge for being an intentional hoser for the overpowered faeries of its standard, but even without so degenerate decks to guard against, this standard is chock full of 2 toughness beaters all around, and that means this will easily be as huge.
I just hope they didn't over compensate because BFZ was powered down by giving Eldrazi and OP spell. As long as they put in a safety valve for it(like a 2mc "devoid spells do no damage this turn" or something), I'm ok with it.
One thing I think everyone has missed- graveyards are going to mean ALOT in this standard, to the point where i think WotC knows graveyard hate will have to improve to keep balance.
of course it wouldn't make sense for them not to TBR first anyway, at which point just immense resolving would negate it, so that whole bit about prowess is moot in that case. But it certainly gives atarka options when their fiery impulse can respond to your kozilek's return and kill your siege rhino and make their swiftspear survive, that kind of blowout play. Actually, that play doesn't make much sense either, because whats abzan doing playing a 4th color? well you get my point
I guess I just prefer burn sweepers to be sorcery speed but judging from the power level of cards already revealed, i have hope all deck types will be ok.
Now back on track, if I ever did play Eldrazi, this is an easy 4 of in that deck because it hits them early and late. Plus everyone is forgetting about that 4 drop that lets u play an extra land per turn...talk about ramp.
A 2 then a 5 damage sweeper is too op in standard IMO without a safety valve.
Undercosted burn spell at Mythic, super awesome! ;P
Most valued card in the set at the moment.
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