Greenwarden of Murasa. Well, there is no real debating whether or not the card is good. Its definitely going to see play in most green EDH decks. Can it break into standard though? What are your thoughts about the Greenwarden?
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I forsee him played in some form of Ramp, or maybe some mid-range builds. Probably some combo of heavy creature, minimal removal (instants in general), and using him with Den Protector as well to boost non-creature spell use in these kinds of decks.
If there is a standard ramp / See the Unwritten deck (which seems likely with all the powerful huge creatures we're getting) it will probably make a showing there (See the Unwritten with Ferocious for a massive Eldrazi and a Greenwarden getting back See the Unwritten seems like a solid play). For any normal deck though (and all non-standard constructed formats) I doubt it'll make a showing.
Greenwarden has a bit of an identity problem -
It's not cheap enough to pull off the usual tricks that recursion creatures can like recurring other copies as recurring blockers or returning and casting a cheap discard, removal or counter on the same turn (Snapcaster Mage impression).
However
It's doesn't have good enough stats/combat abilities to be a legitimate finisher like most decks want from their 6 cost or higher spells. A vanilla 5/4 body is very mediocre, the lack of evasion/trample means it's easy to chump block and the 4 toughness means it can be killed by/trade with a lot of things that even a 5/5 wouldn't (Languish, Exquisite Firecraft, Gideon's Reproach, Siege Rhino, Thunderbreak Regent etc.) while the 5 power means it's also exilable by Linked Hedron Structure.
Don't get me wrong it's still a lot of value, it will definitely see play and the death trigger even gives it some extra resilience (a lot of the time people won't want to kill it), but would it really have killed Wizards to push it a bit more by giving it a better body (5/5 trample for example) and/or removing the exile clause on the death trigger?
A 5/4 body may not be ideal for a 6 drop but the value you generate off playing this is immense, a 5/4 body demands an answer period. I mean Thragtusk had a 5/3 body for one less mana and his 5/3 body was pretty damn intimidating at times.
I mean sounds like a bad deal all around for control decks to deal with this if this thing resolves, you get a card back right away and then they have to remove the creature, if they aren't using an oblivion ring affect or straight up exile you will get another card back once they kill it or block it with a big enough creature.
im sure it will be played in Standard too. Just think about what other 6 mana spell you would prefer. it probably is no Finisher, but it can help.
do people tend to play 6 CMC spells in standard that are not finishers?
I find it kind of strange that people don't see this as a finisher, because in my opinion it is. It's practically guaranteed as a 3 for 1 with two of those cards probably the best cards you played in the previous turns. Not a lot of decks can recover after that, so you essentially seal the game right there.
I think this guy is great. I haven't seen anyone mention it, but he looks good in Abzan too. Recurring Rhinos and high impact spells is pretty big game, as seen with the Greenwardens smaller sibling Den Protector. What's more is that isn't all that much more expensive than Den Protector either. Most people play DP on 5 mana anyway.
Lastly he will make a nice cog in a grave yard machine as well. Any deck running gather the pack, and similar cards, and re animating should take a hard look at this guy for the line up for his ETB trigger.
Casting cost historically doesn't matter as much in the color green but Wizards has stated that may change soon. WE will probably not see a good turn 1 Mana dork for awhile.
A red copy spell such as twinflame or heat shimmer paired with a sac outlet (preferably a free one) allows cheap graveyard recursion many times a turn.
1.play Greenwarden
2.twinflame Greenwarden, get a card from graveyard
3.sac the copy, get twinflame from graveyard
4.repeat from step 2 until satisfied or tapped out.
I use this cheesy combo in my omnath deck.
Doesn't work. Token will cease to exist via SBA while "dies" trigger is still on stack, therefore you won't be able to exile it to return a card from graveyard.
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- Manite
Greenwarden has a bit of an identity problem -
It's not cheap enough to pull off the usual tricks that recursion creatures can like recurring other copies as recurring blockers or returning and casting a cheap discard, removal or counter on the same turn (Snapcaster Mage impression).
However
It's doesn't have good enough stats/combat abilities to be a legitimate finisher like most decks want from their 6 cost or higher spells. A vanilla 5/4 body is very mediocre, the lack of evasion/trample means it's easy to chump block and the 4 toughness means it can be killed by/trade with a lot of things that even a 5/5 wouldn't (Languish, Exquisite Firecraft, Gideon's Reproach, Siege Rhino, Thunderbreak Regent etc.) while the 5 power means it's also exilable by Linked Hedron Structure.
Don't get me wrong it's still a lot of value, it will definitely see play and the death trigger even gives it some extra resilience (a lot of the time people won't want to kill it), but would it really have killed Wizards to push it a bit more by giving it a better body (5/5 trample for example) and/or removing the exile clause on the death trigger?
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I mean sounds like a bad deal all around for control decks to deal with this if this thing resolves, you get a card back right away and then they have to remove the creature, if they aren't using an oblivion ring affect or straight up exile you will get another card back once they kill it or block it with a big enough creature.
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4 Windswept Heath
1 Prairie Stream
3 Cinder Glade
4 Frontier Bivouac
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
5 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Kiora, Master of the Depths
2 Sarkhan Unbroken
2 Crater's Claws
2 Roast
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4 Rattleclaw Mystic
2 Leaf Gilder
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1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
3 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2 Woodland Bellower
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
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do people tend to play 6 CMC spells in standard that are not finishers?
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
I find it kind of strange that people don't see this as a finisher, because in my opinion it is. It's practically guaranteed as a 3 for 1 with two of those cards probably the best cards you played in the previous turns. Not a lot of decks can recover after that, so you essentially seal the game right there.
Lastly he will make a nice cog in a grave yard machine as well. Any deck running gather the pack, and similar cards, and re animating should take a hard look at this guy for the line up for his ETB trigger.
yea for example Genesis Hydra.
1.play Greenwarden
2.twinflame Greenwarden, get a card from graveyard
3.sac the copy, get twinflame from graveyard
4.repeat from step 2 until satisfied or tapped out.
I use this cheesy combo in my omnath deck.